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 Diego12
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 posted on November 2nd, 2006 at 03:53 PM |
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1916cc Motor having Problems - Kadron Carbies
Hi,
Can anyone help please...... My friend put a new motor into his manx, it's a 1916cc motor with Kadron carbies and Empi manifolds. The engine is
running flat on cylinders 1 and 3 when idling. There is plenty of spark..... The engine seems to run fine on full speed, just seems to be flat when
idling. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated
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silver
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| posted on November 2nd, 2006 at 07:40 PM |
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start with mixture and try and get a carby balancer/vacuum gauge
Keeping it real !
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MickH
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| posted on November 2nd, 2006 at 08:15 PM |
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Hmmmm....does it have a balance tube fitted??? Sounds like there might be a slight air leak.When started from cold,can you touch the extractors on
cylinders 1 and 3??Do they get warm/hot at idle like 2 and 4?? Just curious how you determined they were not firing.
tssnq.com.au
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VWCOOL
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| posted on November 3rd, 2006 at 07:20 AM |
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Plugs, points, leads, tappet clearance...?
What does 'flat' mean, exactly?
[ Edited on 2-11-2006 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Baja Wes
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| posted on November 3rd, 2006 at 09:43 AM |
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This is fairly common. The VW engine likes to idle on the rear two cylinders, especially with Kadrons.
As long as it still drives smooth, and doesn't really shake around at idle, then it is ok.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on November 3rd, 2006 at 10:13 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Baja Wes
This is fairly common. The VW engine likes to idle on the rear two cylinders, especially with Kadrons.
As long as it still drives smooth, and doesn't really shake around at idle, then it is ok.
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yeah good point
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Kimbo
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| posted on November 3rd, 2006 at 03:45 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Baja Wes
This is fairly common. The VW engine likes to idle on the rear two cylinders, especially with Kadrons.
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Wes, sorry mate, pardon my ignorance, but "what the" ??? I'm not doubting what you're saying, but I can't for the life of me figure out why/how
that would occur
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Baja Wes
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| posted on November 10th, 2006 at 04:54 PM |
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sorry for the slow reply, been busy.
I noticed it a little when I ran a stock carb, and more so when I ran kadrons. I figured the reason was this;
The VW firing order is 1432. Which is also 4-3 then 2-1. Basically the pairs of cylinders on each side fire in order.
So look at the drivers side kadron (cylinders 2 and 1);
* Air/fuel goes into cylinder 2 for 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation,
* immediately after air/fuel goes into cylinder 1 for 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation,
* then you have a whole 360 degrees of nothing,
* then air fuel goes into cylinder 2 again and the process repeats.
The same thing happens on 4 and 3.
So basically cylinder 2 starts the air moving in the carb. Because the air needs time to accelerate, cylinder 2 initally doesn't fill very well (at
low revs like idle).
Then as soon as #2 intake valve closes, #1 intake valve opens. So now cylinder 1 fills really well because the air is already moving in the carb from
cylinder 2 filling.
Then #1 intake closes, nothing happens for 360 degrees and the air flow in the carb stops.
This effect means #1 and #3 get a better intake charge at idle, and I think a slightly richer mixture than #2 and #4.
Did any of that make any sense 
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VWCOOL
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| posted on November 10th, 2006 at 05:36 PM |
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yep perfect sense - mine does the same (only idles on two - smoothly, but u can take a plug lead off and it makes no difference) and has done for
about 15 years!
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on November 10th, 2006 at 06:24 PM |
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NEver thought of it like that, but explains a lot for me too.....
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johny rotten
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| posted on November 10th, 2006 at 06:34 PM |
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Wes u make no sense at all
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Baja Wes
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| posted on November 10th, 2006 at 10:06 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by johny rotten
Wes u make no sense at all
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well I'll take a 2 out of 3 result as being a satisifactory explaination, that some people can't understand :P
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OwenMM
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| posted on November 11th, 2006 at 10:55 PM |
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Very common knowledge that kads idle on 2 cyl a bit, especially with a bit of cam.
Playing around with venturies, and jetting can help sometimes, but its nothing to worry about.
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Tazz
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| posted on November 12th, 2006 at 09:06 PM |
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fixed my problem with 45 del's.... One Venturi per pot.
Tazz
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VWCOOL
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| posted on November 12th, 2006 at 09:55 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Tazz
fixed my problem with 45 del's.... One Venturi per pot.
Tazz
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lol.. it would have been much cheaper to ask someone else
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Tazz
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| posted on November 12th, 2006 at 09:58 PM |
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he said he wanted a fix.....
sometimes its worth the expence.....
The results speak for themselves...
Tazz
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VWCOOL
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| posted on November 12th, 2006 at 10:10 PM |
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Nope. Not worth the expense!
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Tazz
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| posted on November 12th, 2006 at 10:17 PM |
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right.....
u win.... i spent good money on shit... and it doesnt rev or idle...
u caught me out...
Yes i was just trying to get someone to spend money on stuff that doesnt work.
VWCOOL seems to have all the answers and i will endevour to redirect any questions related to VW performance straight to you.
Tazz
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VWCOOL
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| posted on November 13th, 2006 at 08:09 AM |
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Tazz, well if you spent money on stuff that doesn't rev or idle, maybe you should re-install your kaddies :P
Diego, this is from a US site but has good basic info:
http://www.lowbugget.com/adjust_idle.html
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Tazz
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| posted on November 13th, 2006 at 08:38 AM |
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Kool..... and then you can fix my Idle Problem..... Oh great wise one...
Tazz
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koolkarmakombi
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| posted on November 13th, 2006 at 12:05 PM |
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forgive me for asking the obvious Tazz,
Do your dell's have dedicated manifolds to the twin ports or do they swirl it so each pot can grab from both barrels?
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BiX
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| posted on November 13th, 2006 at 12:15 PM |
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When your running dual webbers or Dell's each cylinder will have its own carby throat (They are not linked). Therefore the issue wes mentioned no
longer exists........
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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Kimbo
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| posted on November 13th, 2006 at 12:21 PM |
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| Quote: |
Did any of that make any sense
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Yes it did - thanks Wes
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Tazz
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| posted on November 13th, 2006 at 02:46 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by BiX
When your running dual webbers or Dell's each cylinder will have its own carby throat (They are not linked). Therefore the issue wes mentioned no
longer exists........
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Thanks Bix....
Eggzeckrly what him said.... plus i realy dont think Kads on a 1916 would give it full potential....
Expensive? not really.... i think Empi was trying to sell a set for like 275 bucks... even if you had to get manifolds and stuff you would get out if
it for less than 500 buks... worse case..
You could recover that easy with the sale of the Kads.
Tazz
[ Edited on 13-11-2006 by Tazz ]
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VWCOOL
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| posted on November 13th, 2006 at 06:12 PM |
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Now u got four throats to diagnose, not just two! And see in the pic how the manifold is... Oh, never mind! :P
Pay your debts, CxxT
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StenGuns
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| posted on July 9th, 2007 at 06:00 PM |
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So am I making a mistake selecting twin Kadrons to go on my warmish 1916?.. I need to know so I can get busy through next month..
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VWFREAK
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| posted on July 9th, 2007 at 06:38 PM |
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Dells are the go.
How big is your cam, I had a similar problem with a 1916cc, 120 engle cam, sounded like a mack truck at idle.
Fixed the problem with a single 48 ida (which popped a little), then went to twin dells. Can't beat them for value and response (smooths the engine
right out).
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StenGuns
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| posted on July 9th, 2007 at 07:04 PM |
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I've got a 110
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on July 9th, 2007 at 08:50 PM |
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Kadrons will be more than sufficient
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hewpt
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| posted on August 22nd, 2008 at 09:44 PM |
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Does anyone know if the same thing happens with a 40 dcnf webber
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