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 PostModern
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| posted on May 7th, 2003 at 01:12 PM |
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DIY welding advice
Hi,
I recently bought a fixer-upper (david's 59 triple cab) and plan/hope to do most of the resto work myself. I'm fairly competent at most
things I try, so I reckon I'll be OK with a welder too. 
For car body work, what is the best type of welder to buy? An arc welder or a MIG or CIG or.... what? Also, for basic body work (I pray there's
no structural rust in need of fixing) what kind of power will I need? I also plan to do some sculpture (not on the car) so a welder that can do that
as well would be handy.
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PostModern
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| posted on May 7th, 2003 at 03:06 PM |
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Oh, and online how-to's would be appreciated if anyone's got them bookmarked.
Thx.
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 Peter Leonard
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| posted on May 7th, 2003 at 03:13 PM |
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welding
tig's prolly the best for fine work, mig's prolly the best for speed, and bigger stuff.... (beginner here, so just MHO)
let sleeping dubs lie
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blk56
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| posted on May 7th, 2003 at 06:11 PM |
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I would not buy a TIG no good for body repairs as they are hard to use ,expensive ,put to much heat into the steel and will destort the panels. Buy a
MIG easyer to use, faster welding speed .less heat =less distortion .As for what size to buy that depends on how often you will use it and what size
steel you will be welding . I have a DueMig 120amps and it will weld 4mm to 5mm thick plate ok . The only hassel is when you run flat out the duty
cycle is not real good . Hope this helps :bounce
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duncombemu
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 posted on May 7th, 2003 at 08:24 PM |
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If you're in the market for a MIG (metal inhert gas) welder, then buy one that you'll 'grow' into. There's nothing worse than
buying a small/cheap one and then 'out growning' it in no time. It may be a good idea to do an Adult Ed class on welding, to get past the
basics. You can then tackle the job on your VW with added zeal and with confidence.
I wouldn't go 120, you'll out grow it in no time. Get some books and have a go. Go into the 'welding shop' and 'test'
out theres first. When you've mastered the art of welding, well, it'll last you a lifetime.
From a master welder (well I think I am).He He He He!!!!!!
Regards,
Mark
:thumb
Don't ever let anyone tell you, "It can't be done."
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 helbus
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| posted on May 7th, 2003 at 10:26 PM |
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A name brand 150amp MIG is adequate for panel repairs and medium metal fabrication (gates, doghouses etc) I have had an SIP 150 for 13 years and
treated it very badly and it still goes no probs.
I have used it for about 30 full rebuilds plus twice that many other repairs, so it has done quite a bit of work.
With learning to MIG, find someone who can do it, and with a couple of hours training from them you will be up and running. Practice on old panels. As
long as the metal is clean, you will be surprised what you can do.
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PostModern
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| posted on May 7th, 2003 at 11:26 PM |
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Thanks gentlemen. I was thinking a 200 amp would be nice, to give a little extra grunt should I ever need it down the track, but looking at the
prices... ouch!
It will primarily be for the bus restoration, so if 150 is fine... great
I read a nice guide online, looks to me like I can learn to weld
I have a grinder and various saws and sanders already... what else will I need for body work? A dolly kit, spray gun... or should I prime from a can
and get the job finished by a pro?
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splitbusaustralia
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| posted on May 9th, 2003 at 07:35 PM |
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Well,
I reckon you canactually get by with a 130 amp. Will weld up to 3mm with full penetration and there's nothing thicker on a bus anyway....
Duty cycle? Well I find that the reduced cycle with the 130 actually MAKES you have patience. Tack wait. Tack again - wait. IF you don't wait
too much heat equals big time panel distortion. Lazy cycle time equals a good job!
RobK
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duncombemu
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| posted on May 9th, 2003 at 10:22 PM |
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OK, so you 'think' you need a 130amp. The day you hand over your hard earned money, will be the day you want to weld more than 3mm steel
plate.
One day and maybe soon, you'll want to weld up a set of car ramps, some car stands, fix or build a trailer, you never know.
As I said, "Buy the biggest that you can afford."
Get one that runs gas (Argon) and not those pissy little gasless spools of wire and get one with a fan.
Don't limit yourself to just being able to weld thin steel. I'm not saying that a small capacity welder won't do the job, but if you
want to be a good...no a great welder, then get one that welds more than 3mm. It'll last you for many years. In other words, "Don't get
a Mini to tow the caravan around Australia, and don't get a V8 to go and do the shopping." 150 amp runs hard...380 amp does a lot more and
just ticks over, lasting a lot longer.
Think about it very carefully, I've been through all this before.
I just wish I'd thought longer about my past purchases, because I bought a 'little' mig120, thinking the same and wore it out in no
time (running it hard) and now I've had to buy another one (380 amp), when I should of done that in the first place.
Regards,
Mark:thumb
Don't ever let anyone tell you, "It can't be done."
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splitbusaustralia
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| posted on May 10th, 2003 at 07:01 AM |
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The original question DID relate to working on buses?
If you want to weld bigger you will need bigger BUT you DON'T need 380 amp to work on a bus!
Depends what you want to do with it really...look at the functionality then decide - don't go small if you need big but don't fall for
'requirement creep' if you don't ned it!
RobK
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helbus
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| posted on May 10th, 2003 at 03:48 PM |
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150 amp is big enough for any vehicle welding. You would not be wise to run any bigger through a standard power outlet.
Of very panel shop I have ever worked in none have had bigger than a 200 and most have a 175 0r 180.
Remembering these are being used a lot of the time, every day, it is easy to see how a 150 will be sufficient in a home or small workshop being used
only by one person,
You can weld up to 5mm bevelled plate with a 150amp.
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fatboy
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| posted on May 10th, 2003 at 04:32 PM |
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"I read a nice guide online, looks to me like I can learn to weld "
Would you post the link so I could have a look ? cheers
BTW I dont know anything about welding but with no insult intended to dumbcombemu advice from ROBK about working on buses should be listened to
http://www.itsv.net/Robk%20in%20The%20AGE.htm
:thumb
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PostModern
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| posted on May 11th, 2003 at 10:25 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by fatboy
"I read a nice guide online, looks to me like I can learn to weld "
Would you post the link so I could have a look ? cheers
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http://www.aussieweld.com.au/arcwelding/index.htm
"Ray's Welding Guide" and the third site I use starting with "aussie"
Thanks for all the advice and lively debate guys From what I've
read in this thread and in other sites, I think I'll go for a 150 amp unit. I do have supply limitations, and don't, at this
stage, want to have to install a 15 amp outlet in my carport/workshop. In about 7 years or so, I'll be rebuilding here, so that's when
I'll go for 3 phase and 15 amp outlets in the workshop and can buy whatever gear I need. A bigger tool now will also mean more work moving it
about and locking it up and so on as well. So long as 150 amp can do what I want and maybe a ~little~ bit more, I'll be happy.
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matara
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| posted on May 11th, 2003 at 09:16 PM |
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Welding Links
This is a good novice page for welding. Shows welding in a rocker on a bay window bus!
http://www.hrps.demon.nl/jwbus/rocker.htm
Steve
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geodon
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| posted on May 11th, 2003 at 10:33 PM |
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Visor is VIP!
Whatever you buy see if you can stretch the budget to one of those visors that are clear when you line up & then go dark in a couple of
microseconds when you arc up. It makes a huge difference to accuracy. As far a heavier stuff goes, you can get a second hand stick (arc) welder pretty
cheap for "agricultural" work!
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PostModern
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| posted on May 12th, 2003 at 01:22 PM |
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I've just been offered a free "agricultural" Arc welder from a handyman in the family. I think I'll practice a fair bit with it
to see if I want to trust it on my new old bus (which should be arriving in 2 days!!!!!).
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splitbusaustralia
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| posted on May 12th, 2003 at 01:45 PM |
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No don't put a stick welder anywhere
near it! (well maybe wave it at it to frighten it if you're annoyed with it)...
You do need a gas MIG for any panel
work!
RobK
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duncombemu
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| posted on May 12th, 2003 at 08:17 PM |
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Go with the given advice!
I really don't know what to say!!!!!
After all the advice you've been given and you're considering, a 'stick welder'. Come on "PostModern", take all this
advice and heed it. Go with the 150amp Gas MIG. Take it from me (and everyone else that's written in this forum), you can only use a MIG
for panel work and never an arc welder.
Regards,
Mark
:thumb
Don't ever let anyone tell you, "It can't be done."
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kombi_kid
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| posted on May 12th, 2003 at 09:44 PM |
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hey rob
whats that primer that can be applied to metal and welded over???
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
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helbus
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| posted on May 13th, 2003 at 12:15 AM |
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OMG turn my back for how long, and an ARC welder is mentioned.
NO panel beater or panel shop in the world (maybe Mexico) uses ARC.
Oxy welding would be more acceptable.
With gas (MIG) and gasless, there is a major difference also, and that is the polarity between the wire feed and the "earth" clamp is
reversed. Dont ask me why as I am not a Physics teacher, but this alone has an effect on the useability and effectiveness of creating good quality
welds on panel steel.
This is in regards to all types of panel welding. Butt, plug, lap, etc.
LOL I just reread what i wrote, and you may see what I found so funny in that last sentence.
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splitbusaustralia
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| posted on May 13th, 2003 at 08:27 AM |
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High zinc primer also known as 'weld-thru' primer. Most auto paint suppliers have it in rattle cans but its 'out the back' and
you have to ask for it specifically.
Make sure you spray it in a well ventilated area its not good for the health...good for sealing new metal that you're still working on.
Don't put it on too thick in this application or when welding thru you get a green flare when the zinc goes up which can obscure your vision
while welding..
Zinc rich primers are also fantastic for priming at risk metal areas like safari and pop-out window frames etc. Used a lot in the military and
there's and NATO standard for this use (some like plus 60% zinc from memory). It a 'sacrificial' primer and thus protects the metal
through electrolytic action.....(like sacrificial zinc blocks on steel boat hulls). I use it on ALL stuff like that - many thin coats.
Maybe not as good as powder coating (maybe it is) but the hassle with powder coating is colour matching. If you want to paint everything with the
same paint/colour zinc priming these rust prone areas is the way to go.....
RobK
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PostModern
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| posted on May 13th, 2003 at 12:01 PM |
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The thing I liked about the arc was it's price Seeing it's
been offered to me I'll keep it for "other" work when I don't want to waste argon.
Does anyone know of or use "SIP" brand welders? There's a good deal on: New 150 amp unit, wire, gas bottle, mask, for $499.
Sounds like the deal is "too good to be true". Is it?
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helbus
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| posted on May 13th, 2003 at 08:27 PM |
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SIP are OK. I have used my SIP 150 amp for 13 years and it's never stopped.
I put a medium sized wire reel in 0.8mm. as the tiny rolls were going in a day.
The handpiece feels a bit cheap, and the gas guage only shows bottle pressure not working pressure.
At that price, it is a bargain. I paid $580 for mine all those years ago. When sales tax was 22%
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PostModern
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| posted on May 13th, 2003 at 11:31 PM |
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Some stuff we found on the web basically said, "it'll be fine for a year and then you'll toss it because it'll break down and you
can't get parts" or somesuch. Hopefully I won't put a year's work on it in 5 years... Hmmm. It's tough to make a purchasing
decision like that in the face of conflicting reports. :\
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duncombemu
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| posted on May 14th, 2003 at 01:04 AM |
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For Gods sake.
Please make up your mind! Please put me (and everyone else) out of our misery
and buy a 150 amp MIG welder and be done with it. There is nothing that's hard to
understand.
This is it! Get a MIG. Get a 150 amp. Go get some lessons. Read some books on welding.
And finally, BE DECISIVE!  :P
Mark
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PostModern
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| posted on May 14th, 2003 at 12:24 PM |
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I have a limited budget, so i don't have the luxury of being able to buy a welder that's going to break down. I also don't have the
luxury to be able to afford a $1000 welder. I want to pick the best value-for-money welder that I can afford and presently know jack shit about
welders, hence me plugging away for advice. I am well aware that I need a 150 amp MIG. Did you notice my last two posts were now about a specific
brand? The grain of the info I'm after is getting finer.
I don't want to go off one good review against 20 bad reviews and throw money away that I may well need to buy parts I hadn't budgeted for,
as the seller of the bus I bought severely misrepresented the condition of the bus, so I'm pissed off and presently have other things to worry
about.
If you're bored of the thread, please feel free not to read it any more.
Has anyone else got good things to say about SIP's?
[Edited on 15-5-2003 by PostModern]
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fatboy
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| posted on May 14th, 2003 at 06:01 PM |
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duncombemu - maybe you should change your mood to "Grumpy" :P
" Captain Picard, why are there no Indians on the Enterprise ? Don't you need IT Support ? "
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duncombemu
A.k.a.: Mark Atkins
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| posted on May 14th, 2003 at 10:03 PM |
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fatboy, I've changed my 'Mood to, 'Grumpy'
PostModern,
Why don't you borrow a MIG until you master the skills and can afford to buy a good quality one, that will last for years.
See, I'm not 'grumpy' all the time.
:kiss
Regards,
Mark
Don't ever let anyone tell you, "It can't be done."
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fatboy
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| posted on May 15th, 2003 at 02:16 AM |
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LOL
" Captain Picard, why are there no Indians on the Enterprise ? Don't you need IT Support ? "
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PostModern
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| posted on May 15th, 2003 at 10:44 AM |
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If I knew someone who had one, I would. Like me, most of my friends are IT geeks. I'll just buy a SIP cheapy for now and sell it at a loss
if/when I upgrade.
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