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 colin
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| posted on August 7th, 2007 at 12:28 PM |
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Ignition systems
Hi everyone.
Though i would bring a subject for discussion being ignition systems.I have noticed especially in the yankee mags that they all seem to go for
electronic ignition in their cars, whether they be mild wild or drag cars.
One brand seems to be very popular that being Mallory.Also i have noticed that crank fire systems are gaining popularity especially in drag race
applications. Now don,t get me wrong i would never bag anyone for running a system such as these because use i don,t now to much about them,but
sometimes in our little hobby we adopt a monkey see monkey do approach.
In my humble little hillclimber i run a 009 distributor with xu1 points the motor being 1916 in capacity.I guess i use this system because of its
simplicity. hey Im a simple guy!Under the cap is a bosch rev limiter which has served me well for about 10 years now, touch wood. I have never had an
ignition failure at an event.
So heres my question for discussion.
What system do you run in your car? and what advantages have you found it gives you. I would be particulary interested to hear from the guys who
compete at hillclimbs super sprints etc or just people who know more than me, (plenty of those im sure)
I have spoken to a few people who have electronic systems and they report that power delivery in the low and mid range to be much smoother. Has anyone
done any work on a dyno ie back to back runs to prove or otherwise that their system increases hp output.Or maybe improves power delivery?
So there you go, hope this stirs up a few brain cells and creates a good discussion.Maybe if i,m lucky i might learn something.
Cheers Col
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fullnoise
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| posted on August 7th, 2007 at 02:23 PM |
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Hey Col,
I run a new 009 with petronix ignitor (Electro-magnetic or something) module that replaces the points and condenser. This triggers a MSD 6AL (Multi
Spark (CDI?))which which is connected to a black bosch coil, magnecore ignitionn leads and NGK plugs which are heat range 9 (Equal to the Bosch 7)
which should be one range cooler than a standard plug.
The pertronix is good because you can set and forget the timing and there are no points to adjust.
The MSD is as good as the Dick Smith CDI Greg Ward wired up for me. The fatter sparks of each system really clean up hesitations, coughs & slight
splutters that I always thought was caused by the carbs. I think a fatter ignition is a must if you're running twin webers or dells.
The rev limiter is also a good feature. You don't have to take your eyes off the track to look at the tacho and can just change gear by ear or when
you hear the soft touch limiter come on. You can also put the 4000 rpm limiter in if you leave the car with somebody ie at pink slip time.
I have a spare electronic module that goes in the dizzy. I think it's a compufire or something if you want to try it at Warwick.
I tried a single point Mallory, a 010 dizzy and a 009 on the dyno. The 009 worked the best by about 1.5 HP and there was less hesitation. Mind you I
didn't spend time mucking around with springs and advance stops etc to get the most out of each dizzy.
Surely the ingnition curves can be optimised. I think the 009 is all in by 3000rpm so it stays the same thoughout my engine's power band which is
4000 to 7000!
CYA CT
[ Edited on 7-8-2007 by fullnoise ]
esratrams
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BiX
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| posted on August 7th, 2007 at 03:55 PM |
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Ima going through a similar thing at the moment. Looking at upgrading to the Mallory 685.
The reason iam upgrading- gives better spark etc, for a cleaner burn, Allows me to adjsut my rev limit more easily, gives me a few extra features (i
can wire the window switch to be a shift light), gives me multi spark etc etc.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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jonnyb
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| posted on August 7th, 2007 at 06:47 PM |
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does that mean when its time to change the window goes up and down [lol]
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colin
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| posted on August 7th, 2007 at 07:12 PM |
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Thats interesting what you say about getting rid of splutters CT.Keith and i are always looking at getting the most performance and smooth power
delivery out of my IDA,s. Maybe ignition is another avenue to explore.
I will talk more to you and get keiths view when i see you before Warwick Maybe Thursday night before.
Cheers Col
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BiX
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| posted on August 7th, 2007 at 07:27 PM |
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hahah, john.
Hows tassie?
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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tassupervee
A.k.a.: Knob Jockey
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| posted on August 7th, 2007 at 07:41 PM |
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I use a Pertronix Ignitor 11 and a matching Pertronix Flamethrower race coil and suppressed ignition leads in my 1200 Formula Vee.
Smart dwell control was the feature I was looking for hence the fitting of the Ignitor11 as opposed to the cheaper Ignitor, which is a simple, fixed
dwell electronic replacement for points.
I run this arrangement total loss on a mid-sized sealed motorcycle battery and it runs all day with no top up charging. However, i do use an external
plug in battery for starting and then switch over to the small onboard battery just before going out of the pits.
Very happy with the performance of the system which has to fire a 2.5mm plug gap.
I do fit conventional NGK iridiums for initial cold starts which usually stay in for practise/qualifying but the "other" race plugs go in for races
and I have never experienced any starting dramas regardless of the conditions of the day.
The car will start easily when using the small onbard battery alone except when extremely cold.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on August 8th, 2007 at 08:37 AM |
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I'm running a Mallroy 685 with a matching e-coil and Mallory Unilite dizzy for the triggering (but like CT haven't gotten down to playing with
springs and stuff yet).
Main reasons I went with that setup is I wanted a nice hot spark (obviously) plus the two rev-limiters (staging and normal), the adjustable start
retard (not using yet) and the rpm window switch that shuts elec fuel pump off as soon as the engine stops (CAMS manual says I think 6 seconds,
mine's basically instant). As for Mallory over MSD it came down to price and availability in the end.
The car gets mainly used for hillclimb (Mt Cotton) and although I'm still re-learning how to drive a bug I'm really happy with things so far. Starts
very easily compared to the 009 with Compufire setup that I used to run.
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on August 8th, 2007 at 09:05 AM |
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Hi Col
I'm not sure about new Mallorys but in the 80s they were crap quality. The parts (cap, rotor, condenser & points) could only be bought a specialised
speed shop. They had adjustable advance range which tended to creep over time, so in the end we had to set them up and then tack weld the adjusting
plates. Maybe they have improved over time.
And talking about crap VW dizzies, if anyone has a Resolit dizzy chuck it in the bin.
I saw this system on aircoolednet, has anyone tried one? http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=IGD0010&carti...
Steve
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 8th, 2007 at 09:19 AM |
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never had any probs with old-school points in my 009 in my 1916. Mine only spins to 6200 but they are usually happy to 8000, as (considering
cylinders) they were in Brocky's Toranas etc. So I had a real quiet laugh when a *ahem* engine builder recently started dithering on to me about
ignition stability and how points break down above 5000... Just need to give them a bit of love at each service
[ Edited on 7-8-2007 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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colin
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| posted on August 8th, 2007 at 12:40 PM |
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Thats interesting what you have found VW Cool. I rev my 1916 to 7100 rpm. There seems to be many opinions on this subject, and thanks for everyone,s
input.
See you at Warwick
Cheers Col
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fullnoise
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| posted on August 8th, 2007 at 03:34 PM |
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I never had any problems with my points either. But comparing the stock ignition to the CDI there's obvious room for improvement.
I ran the Dick Smith CDI with points and it was excellent. It specifically helps low revs, driving in traffic and when blipping the throttle on the
down-shift.
I still keep the points and condenser in the tool box in case the gadgetry fails.
I hear that if you're prone to giving yourself electric shocks then stick with the standard ignition. The MSD packs a punch.
esratrams
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on August 8th, 2007 at 07:09 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
Thats interesting what you have found VW Cool. I rev my 1916 to 7100 rpm. There seems to be many opinions on this subject, and thanks for everyone,s
input.
See you at Warwick
Cheers Col
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I had points up until the twin plug setup and I revved it to 8000rpm with no break down. That was with a standard bosch coil. Points were from a
toyota (heavy spring like the xu1 points)
The dick smith kits work well and certainly give a fatter spark, although I found they only lasted for about two years before they played up.:thumb
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 8th, 2007 at 11:16 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
Thats interesting what you have found VW Cool. I rev my 1916 to 7100 rpm. There seems to be many opinions on this subject, and thanks for everyone,s
input.
See you at Warwick
Cheers Col
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Sorry, what I meant was, I only spin it to 6200 due to stock heads and kadrons. The good ole 'base' pobjoy 1916 has given its best by then but I
might see 6500 occasionally mid-corner or whatever as I have a counterweighted crank
Pay your debts, CxxT
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rallydave
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| posted on August 25th, 2007 at 08:56 PM |
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I use a compufire double ended coil set-up and have found it to be superb! It starts easily hot or cold(or underwater...but thats another story)and
when mated to my regraphed 009 the system works very well.I'd recomend it to anybody......and those blue flames at idle are cool too.
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