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 Blue65
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| posted on December 24th, 2007 at 12:31 AM |
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VW Beetle Suspension Photos
I dug up my VW journal where I kept all the receipts and records of whats been done to the Beetle. Let's see... the mechanics Aust VW Performance
Centre lowered the front end with adjusters, with caster shims, bump stop, a BWF2 Sway Bar, a BWR11Sway Bar, Steering Coupling, and added a extra
labout
to replace bump stops... Still feels vague and floating at high speeds 70mph...
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/22068934@N05/2130305369/[/img]
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hellbugged
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| posted on December 24th, 2007 at 08:31 AM |
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kay, so it looks like you've got new tie rod ends (at least the
inner ones)
with one adjuster installed in the beam, the front should be rather stiff, unless it is riding on the top set of torsions alone now.it is adjusted
most the way up by the looks tho.
the bars look like they are a "matching set" and installed properly........can you just check for evidence of the brackets on the rear sway bars
"turning" around the torsion housings and make sure the bolts that attach them to the spring plates are still tight.
the combination you have there is very similar to what i run and i'm guessing that there is something loose,worn and needs replacement or not
operating as it should to complete the package (cheapo tyres?:td the link
and king pins don't look as if they have been touched..................or maybe it just feels vauge after that mini in the background
i'm 1/2 a country away tho and if you feel it is really bad, take it back to the people who did the work and ask what else they thought needed
attention when they were there or pay them for an hours work to tighten and check your suspension.
here are some checks you can do for us........
check all wheel nuts are tight and tyre pressures are even and at least 25psi
with the car on the ground, rotate the steering wheel back and forth to check for slop. stick your head out the window and at the same time and see if
the wheels move as your steering wheel does. how far does the steering wheel move before the tyres start?..............this will help decide on the
condition of the steering coupling, tie rod ends and steering box. check the bolt that holds the steering rod into the coupling is present and tight.
that the steering box is tight on the front end.
check the four bolts are tight attaching the front end to the chassis. look for those castor shimms between the bottom beam and the chassis
bulkhead
jack the front of the car up. get someone to hold the steering wheel, and grab the tyres at the 9 and 3 o'clock positions, try and move it against
the person holding the steering tight, back and forth repeatedly whilst feeling for slop/freeplay and listening for noises, clicking or clunking
(horizontally).........again this will check the conditiobn of the steering components as well as link and king pins, bearing
adjustment.............if you find or feel slopiness, stick your head under and look for the fault. do this on both front wheels.
now grab the wheel at the 12 and six o'clock positions and again shake up and down repeatedly/rythmicly......this time
vertically...............again feel for slopiness. if you do feel any, stick your head behind as you or a M8 shakes. look for evidence of movement in
the grease (in the area of your photos), look for where any movement occurs, line your sight up with seperate/adjacent components to spot where the
movement is. this will tell of the condition/adjustment of wheel bearings, link pins, king pins or if your wheels are not tight on the drums. repeat
on both sides
look for evidence of oil leaking from all four shockies, and wear marks from movement in their end bushes. are the bolts tight in both ends?
on the rear.........are the bump stops still there and in good condition?.....around the spring plates, check the three mounting bolts on each side
are tight to the axles bearing housing. at the front of the spring plates there is a cover with four bolts...........with your own judgement would you
say the spring plate is centered in the cover, if it is high/low this would be evidence of worn torsion housing rubbers.very important for handling
compliance
..........i will try to think of more as the day goes along........let us know what you can see.
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modulus
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| posted on December 24th, 2007 at 08:58 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dumone
jack the front of the car up....if you find or feel slopiness, stick your head under ....
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You might want to do this on a proper car hoist or at least use jackstands - your VW has a number of ways to kill you...
hth
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hellbugged
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| posted on December 24th, 2007 at 09:01 AM |
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ooops, some things are just second nature after a while..............i too wouldn't stick a finger under my car without saftey stands
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modulus
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| posted on December 24th, 2007 at 09:15 AM |
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Even though it should be second nature to me too, last year one of my Bilstein jacks gave up the ghost when I was changing wheels because I stupidly
had not chocked the wheels... fortunately it was more embarrassing than fatal...
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The Bigfella
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| posted on December 24th, 2007 at 01:40 PM |
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Yeah my long dead '58 twisted a jack when I was working on it beside a road once - without stands. It just (relatively) slowly came down. I moved
rather fast as it went. Wanna see my jack stand collection now?
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Blue65
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| posted on December 24th, 2007 at 10:16 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dumone
kay, so it looks like you've got new tie rod ends (at least the
inner ones)
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I think one of the tierods, on the right front side was totally worn and the mechanic changed that several weeks ago. Hence the new shiny look.
Now I find that the engine and the transmission seem to be leaking - they both look totally wet - so I'll be taking it back to Volkshome and getting
the car looked at. I only had them reconditioned less than a 500 miles ago.
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 matberry
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| posted on December 24th, 2007 at 10:50 PM |
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was a wheel alignment done and pref with a full tank of fuel.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on December 25th, 2007 at 10:25 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by modulus
Even though it should be second nature to me too, last year one of my Bilstein jacks gave up the ghost when I was changing wheels because I stupidly
had not chocked the wheels... fortunately it was more embarrassing than fatal...
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Well I have always thought that VW Bilstein jacks were unbreakable...
did a pin or rivet etc snap??
I have been known to climb under My beetle using just the bilstein jack.. when i'm not at home....
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
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 posted on December 25th, 2007 at 10:34 PM |
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I think You are having someone elses bad luck besides Your own... lol..
Just remember how old your car is and some parts may still be original... and probably worn out...
front wheel alignment is pretty important in a beetle..
caster camber...
those tyres look like great... don't see them about nowadays... fronts..
I believe You are running gas shocks on the front...
I prefer oil shocks on the front...
I find gas too hard,,,
Check the front end as Dumone said...
the king pins may be worn...
although I would have thought Your mechanic would have told You of any worn mechanicals...
You definately have a problem...
as beetles like yours should handle OK....
The roads you are driving on.. are they rough?
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Blue65
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| posted on December 25th, 2007 at 11:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
I believe You are running gas shocks on the front...
I prefer oil shocks on the front...
I find gas too hard,,,
The roads you are driving on.. are they rough?
Lee
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No, not rough. I take the South Eastern or the Eastern Freeway. Maybe its just me.
I'll be taking the beetle back to Volkshome when John Goodison returns back from the xmas holidays. Its now leaking oil and fluid in the
reconditioned engine and tran- so I hope John can fix it up without breaking my wallet. I must have spent $10,000 on the Beetle since I bought it off
him in 1993.
KYB shocks are all around - but someone else in another vw forum advised me to get softer shocks. Apparently the mexican variant.
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68AutoBug
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| posted on December 25th, 2007 at 11:18 PM |
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COFAP shocks were original equipment
and are sold by most VW parts shops...
well seeing You are driving on Highway freeway
You must have a problem...
maybe lowering the rear end would make a difference...
giving You more negative camber...
I don;t think having a front wheel alignment with a full tank of petrol would make any difference with gas pressurized shocks on the front...
oil shocks are NOT pressurised...
the oil is forced thru small holes... [simplified]
Your car looks really great....
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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matberry
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| posted on December 26th, 2007 at 11:19 AM |
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| Quote: |
I don;t think having a front wheel alignment with a full tank of petrol would make any difference with gas pressurized shocks on the front...
Lee
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Full tank definately makes your front end ride height change, just like a passenger or driver for that matter, especially with a lowered front end as
the tie rod angle is changed and now bump steer is introduced earlier. Also as there is no people in the car when it is on the wheel align machine,
full tank helps offset this.
Or should I simplify this.
Cheers Matt
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
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| posted on December 26th, 2007 at 07:58 PM |
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Whats the steering box like?? Is it any good or out of adjustment? Is ther any movement in the bushes in the front end where your trailing arms
fit(inner and outers)
what brand of tyres are you running?? cheap crappy tryes can also cause some of the symptoms you talk of.
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
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68AutoBug
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| posted on December 26th, 2007 at 09:40 PM |
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He's running Vredestein tyres on the front
You can't get much better than that...
even Kumho and Hankook are OK...
when I had gas shocks on My beetle
six people could have got in without the gas pressuresized shock moving....
these were pedders comfort gas...
only tyres I've ever had problems with were Pirelli on a lancer... took 4 goes to get them balanced....
tyre pressures are 20psi on the front and 30psi on the rear....
Lee
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matberry
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| posted on December 26th, 2007 at 09:47 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
pedders comfort gas...
Lee
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Not my choice. UTS valving not suited to beetle.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 07:46 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
He's running Vredestein tyres on the front
You can't get much better than that...
even Kumho and Hankook are OK...
when I had gas shocks on My beetle
six people could have got in without the gas pressuresized shock moving....
these were pedders comfort gas...
only tyres I've ever had problems with were Pirelli on a lancer... took 4 goes to get them balanced....
tyre pressures are 20psi on the front and 30psi on the rear....
Lee
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Vredestein aren't exactly what i would call good but more of a tyre for the bugdget orientated.(round and black) Depending on the model of kuhmo and
Hankook they can be average to say the least as well. Why are you running 20psi on the front??? I"m assuming the wheels are 15" then you should be
running at least 32psi for optimum tyre life and performance. Running 20 in the front would make the steering heavy and very unresponsive.
As for your shocks not moving when 6 people get in your car that's just way to stiff and will also make steering the car an issue especially when it
comes to bump steer or rough surfaces. The thing would simply skip all over the road cause the shock isn't absorbing any of it being too stiff.
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
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hellbugged
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 08:17 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
He's running Vredestein tyres on the front
You can't get much better than that...
even Kumho and Hankook are OK...
only tyres I've ever had problems with were Pirelli on a lancer... took 4 goes to get them balanced....
tyre pressures are 20psi on the front and 30psi on the rear....
Lee
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Vredestein provide reasonable grip, but are more for ride comfort than performance. the feel from them is doughy at best, feedback to the driver poor
especially in series above 60's. .............."floating and vauge" are the particular characteristics our man who made this thread is complaining
of, hmm.
sounds like your tyre technician fitting the pirellis was lazy 3 times over........ until he realized they would have to be balanced within indudstry
tollerences to be right, funny that!
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matberry
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 10:24 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dumone
sounds like your tyre technician fitting the pirellis was lazy 3 times over........ until he realized they would have to be balanced within indudstry
tollerences to be right, funny that!
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Couldn't have said it better!
Funny how some people just don't understand where their finger's are pointing.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on January 7th, 2008 at 09:13 PM |
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just thinking 'bout this again today!!
as i mentioed above, my set up is almost identical, but i'm strapped into hard boofhead bucket seats..........giving a great feel for what the car is
doing under corner loads etc
i've just put some wornout standard 60's lowback seats back in my ride today .........the "feel" of the car has almost completely gone, i know it still handles exactly the same, terrifically, but whoa what
a different driving experience it is through the "seat of my pants"....
hmmmm
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on January 7th, 2008 at 10:56 PM |
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Naturally, I've never gone back to that tyre fitter...
or bought tyres from them... again...
anyone remember Pneumant tyres??
not sure of the spelling...
but i have one on a beetle rim...
I wouldn't use it as it was made in the DDR..
Demokratik Republik of Germany...
so its too old to use... IMHO...
I do remember buying some back in the late 60s early 70s.
Back in the 70s, some kind person gave Me a VW Rim with a Michelin tyre on it... plenty of tread...
Stupid Me put it on the front Left...
it blew out when i was doing about 110kmh..
and the 1302S superbug turned left off the highway...
luckily there was plenty of space off the road...
I've looked at used tyres with suspicion ever since... lol
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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matberry
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| posted on January 8th, 2008 at 10:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dumone
just thinking 'bout this again today!!
as i mentioed above, my set up is almost identical, but i'm strapped into hard boofhead bucket seats..........giving a great feel for what the car is
doing under corner loads etc
i've just put some wornout standard 60's lowback seats back in my ride today.........the "feel" of the car has almost completely gone, i know it still handles exactly the same, terrifically, but whoa what
a different driving experience it is through the "seat of my pants"....
hmmmm
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Hey Damo
You saying that vague floating feeling is in his pants?
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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hellbugged
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| posted on January 9th, 2008 at 06:48 AM |
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feels like shite hey Matt
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