| [ Total Views: 1925 | Total Replies: 53 | Thread Id: 7123 ] |
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 57 Cal look
A.k.a.: Finn Dunleavy
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 posted on June 3rd, 2003 at 09:58 PM |
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building a BIG motor.... your thoughts
Ok guys ... a couple of questions for you engine experts out there.
If building a BIG motor for a beetle, something like 2lt to 2.7lt or somewhere in between.
1. What would be the best engine case to start with?
2. would you turbo it...
3. would you use a porsche fan kit ...
4. what is better horsepower or torque ?
( the car will never be used for towing )
5. any other point you think i need to cover ?
i look forward to your replies ....
Aerodynamics are for people who cant build engines - Enzo Ferrari
You buy a Ferrari when you want to be somebody, you buy a Lamborghini when you are somebody - Frank Sinatra
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on June 3rd, 2003 at 10:11 PM |
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I'm by no means an expert, but I've put a couple together now, so I'll give you my opinion anyway. 
1) VW 'big block'. ie. type 4 motor. Aluminium case rather than magnesium alloy. Better cooling (not that it matters, see point 3). I like
the pushrod tube design better. Basically just a stronger motor.
2)No, I'd supercharge it, but turbos are just as good, if they're your thing.
3)Yes, they cool even better than the type four stock cooling system (I've heard).
4)Torque, but I personally don't think that it is as important in a lighter car such as a beetle as it is in something heavier like a kombi.
Torque will make a good streetable motor that doesn't need to rev to make power. Power is a product of torque x revs, so more revs = more power,
but more revs can also mean less drivability.
There are lots of other things. This is an endless debate, but I'm sure a type 4 motor will ultimately cost less for the same performance, more
so when you start pushing the boundaries a bit.
Kruizin Kol
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BiX
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| posted on June 3rd, 2003 at 10:12 PM |
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On my very limited experience, and having done some research into buildinga 2ltr motor this is my 2 cents worth.
1. if u have the money one of the new alum cases, if not its an as case i think
2.if ur going big displacemnt probably don't need to turbo it
3.no idea,they do flow more air i think. Cost?
4.a combination of the 2. the stroker should give u more toraue while more revs and the extra displacemnt will give more power
5. what revs a larger motor normally wants lower revs while a small high rpm motor is different. |
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lugnuts
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 04:24 AM |
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Go to Shop Talk Forum (USA),but dont forget to come back,see you in a years time,enjoy:thumb |
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 vw54
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 07:33 AM |
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Finn
The first question you should be asking is
How much money will the Minister of Financess allow you to spend ???
Then the next is How fast do you want to go.
You dont necessarly haveto go BIG to have speed and performance.
BIG cost BIG bucks.
But i would start with a NEW case and not go over 2.0 as every componet starts to get on its limit.
what car are you fitting this up to, have you done all the mods to the running and braking gear to support the i engine ???
I think it would be better to do the car first as it will support any engine combo.
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57 Cal look
A.k.a.: Finn Dunleavy
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 09:04 AM |
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Thanks dave,
firstly ... i am not building a big motor, i just put the question up there to get some information about BIG motors.
And your is the sort of reply i need to hear, as you can see i have much to learn & might not ask the best questions ... but my questions can
only get more accruate as my own knowledge grows. so i ask them, to get a better understanding... so hopefully one day i can ask the sort of
complicated TECH question .. that will be worthy of the experts......
As for the car mods to a type one , to support a BIG motor, i would asume some of the following would be correct ?..
1. seam weld trailing arms & rear end for strength.
2. disc break conversion
3. suspession upgrade to improve handeling
4. some sort of reinforcing to the chassie to prevent the engine twisting it ?
and i am sure there are a couple of other things ... but i guess that is a good place to start ?
Aerodynamics are for people who cant build engines - Enzo Ferrari
You buy a Ferrari when you want to be somebody, you buy a Lamborghini when you are somebody - Frank Sinatra
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56astro
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 09:20 AM |
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Over a certain capacity you will require a brake booster. I'm not sure of the engine size limitations, but you should visit the RTA website.
That's if you want it street-legal and all!
As for what works best, that depends on what you want the engine to do. What's your driving style (do you wring the neck out of engines or do you
putt-putt?).
Type 4 vs Type 1; I was led to believe that type 4's were $ intensive for the same performance, parts are dearer, etc.
The STF is a good place to get lots more info.
Good luck
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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 Bizarre
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 09:41 AM |
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These are two sites DEFINETLEY worth investigating when wanting to learn about hi po motors.
The first is the Cal Look forum - these guys are all out show offs. Have a look at the Top 20 - then you can read what they havi in there motor. Last
place is running a 12.49 @ 105mph 1/4!!
First place is 11.63 @ 115! Supposedly street registered.
Either way LOTS of information and combinations to look and learn
http://www.cal-look.com/index2.html
The other site is Air cooled net. Not as all out but John C has written some tech articles on motor building etc. Then go shopping on line and look at
the different prices and get scared how much it is going to cost!! Then get REALLY scared when you realize those high prices are in US dollars!!
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm
Futue te ipsum!!!
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amazer
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 10:42 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 57 Cal look
4. some sort of reinforcing to the chassie to prevent the engine twisting it ?
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Those pictures of 'normal' cars twisting under torque and lifting one front wheel dont apply to a VW. Because the engine and gearbox and
diff are all bolted together in one unit, there is no 'equal and opposite reaction' trying to twist the car in the oposite direction to the
crankshaft. Other than the initial inertia when you plant the foot, the only torque reaction you get is around the axles, which in effect loads up the
suspension hard, and resists wheelspin.
We get the bonus of lightweight, compactness, and traction all thrown in for free. Thats what makes em such good race cars
The good case for hi capacity is a cut down watercooled engine from a T3. Comes in 2.1 litres from factory. Nice.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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Andy
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 10:56 AM |
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Amazer, if only the front suspension links pointed forward, then you'd get no diving under brakes also 
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Doug Pobjoy
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 02:11 PM |
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Your choices would really depend on the application intended but here are some of my thoughts which you can take or leave. I am by no means an EXPERT
but I feel I have gathered enough information over the years to make an informed opinion.
Engine size: Why go so BIG in engine size. Contrary to common belief, bigger is not always better. It is more a matter of finding the appropriate
balance of bore to stroke that creates maximum power per cc.
How do you go about creating a 2ltr+ capacity? You would have to stroke and bore your motor.
Stroking: Not a great option. Increases torque but requires offset grinding the crank (reduced strength), requires clearance grinding in cases
(reduces ribbing support) and reduces revability. Stroking effects engine geometry/dynamics in a motor too. Something I think Volksagen would have put
alot of thought into when orginally designing the motor. Who are we to correct them? As Steve Irwin would say "Best not too muck with it!"
Boring: Quite a feasible option. Increases displacement and creates a bigger bang! Doesnt effect engine geometry/dynamics and creates more horse
power. Boring type 1 cases out to 94mm can be achieved without structurally damaging a case and 94mm forged bore kits are great quality, but 94mm wont
get you to 2ltr+.
That is why 1916cc is such a popular option. 94mm bore with the standard 69mm stroke.
Interesting facts about bore/stroke:
Motorbikes, Formula 1 and Aircraft all have one thing in common. They all have short stroke / big bore comparisons and are well known for creating
excellent horspower per cc.
Tractors: They use a larger stroke comparatively to bore size. Great for pulling hoes through the ground and towing beetles out of creeks. Not too
famous for winning races or smoking tires.
I dont know about you, but I know what I would prefer my motor to be like.
Doug's Type 1 case of choice:
An AD engine numbered case with stud inserts and dual pressure relief OR one of the new alloy cases if you can afford it.
The Type 4 Alternative:
You could get the 2ltr+ capacity from a Type 4 motor but you would be making a trade off on head design, weight and cost. To make a type 4 fit in your
beetle you have modify your car and obtain engineering certificates *costly*. To get high performance parts for type 4 you are unfortuantely looking
at fairly high prices *costly*. They are very tough, as they are built to take the flogging expected in a kombi but are typically too heavy for a
beetle. The pendulam effect is bad enough as it is without making it worse. For these reasons I would proabably stick with a type 1 for a beetle. (Not
to say you couldnt do a type 4 for a kombi that would go hard)
Turbo's:
I think turbo's can be a blast. You can get great power from simple motors by bolting on turbo's but it always seems to be short lived and
they require high compression ratings you cant get at the pump. In this sense they are not really feasible for street. Premium and Optimax can only do
so much. Yeah, it stops my wifes '88 Laser from pinging (way over due for a service) but it isnt Gods answer to the fueling needs of a high boost
engine (as most street magazines would have you believe). Pinging would be inevitable if you ran any boost worth talking about. Optimax or BP Ultimate
aint no methanol. Premium is really quite similar in rating to what super was many years ago (still only under 100 octane). This pinging shortens the
life of your motor, causing cases to crack and more. Most peolpe who have fiited turbo's usually have an engine blow story to tell *not a good
thing*. I would also suggest that turbo's are not typically a user friendly motor for your average driver.
Porsche Fan:
I would say - give it a miss.
Despite the fact it looks cool (cause they really do!) it will put extra load on your motor by having to push that massive fan around and, in turn
would make your engine work harder, causing a loss in power and a gain in temperature. Therefore any cooling advantage you gained by having a bigger
fan, you have lost due to the fact that the load, which is directly onto your crank *definately not good* has increased. Here is another factor to
consider. Where does your induction get its air from? Same place your fan does. You figure out what effect that would have on your power.
Horsepower and Torque:
I would say both are equally important! Bottom end pulling power
(torque) is great for out of corners & roundabouts, and top end pushing power (horse power) is required to be first to the finish line. It doesnt
have to be a situation of one or the other. It is more a matter of finding an appropriate balance of both through correct engine design and good cam
selection.
I hope this was helpful. Keep in mind this is only my opinion and every is entitled to that.:thumb
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amazer
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 04:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Doug Pobjoy
1. Stroking: Not a great option...
Something I think Volksagen would have put alot of thought into when orginally designing the motor. Who are we to correct them?
2. Boring: Quite a feasible option. Increases displacement. Boring type 1 cases out to 94mm can be achieved without structurally damaging a case.
3. Interesting facts about bore/stroke:
Motorbikes, Formula 1 and Aircraft all have one thing in common. They all have short stroke / big bore comparisons and are well known for creating
excellent horspower per cc.
4. Tractors: They use a larger stroke comparatively to bore size. Great for pulling hoes through the ground and towing beetles out of creeks. Not too
famous for winning races or smoking tires.
5. You can get great power from simple motors by bolting on turbo's but it always seems to be short lived and they require high compression
ratings you cant get at the pump. In this sense they are not really feasible for street.
6. Most peolpe who have fiited turbo's usually have an engine blow story to tell. *not a good thing
7. I would also suggest that turbo's are not typically a user friendly motor for your average driver.
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1. Dont you just love how people use the "volkswagen did it like this so dont muck with it" statement to shoot the other guys opinion and
then go against the thory in their next paragraph!!! Nobody lives by that rule.
2. Using your own defence against you, when volkswagen wanted an engine over 1600cc did they bore the type 1 engine or did they bore a type 4 engine?
If VW decided 1600 was the limit for a type 1 case who are you to argue. (I'm not saying you shouldnt, just that I listened to you in the
previous paragraph)
3. More facts Motorbikes and formula 1 (dont know about aircraft) all rev a hell of a lot more than 10,000. I dont know of any people who see that.
Maybe a drag car does, but most those drag cars I very much doubt are using a volkswagen case. You simply cannot take a VW case to the extreme revs
like you state.
torque = force x distance
power = torque x revs.
power relies on torque.
torque increases with distance ie longer stroke.
tell me how a longer stroke can hurt?
4. Go pick up a copy of Street machine. page 82. 3000hp. from memory something like 4.25 x 4.38 inches if memory is correct. The bore stroke ratio is
almost square. Certainly nowhere near the 'miss-square-ness of a 69 x 94.
5. are you sure? I have been running a turbo VW for about 8 years. I run standard unleaded mostly. Optimax for racing. 18psi is what you would call
high boost?
6. Cant think of any that I know. keith, leigh, shimo, dave, ian I dont think any of us have had anything blow other than a hose. I have had 1
problem. A dropped valve seat. A common type 4 problem, I doubt turbo related.
7. Next time you are in wollongong gimme a buzz. I would suggest if my wife can drive it anyone can. Perhaps you could ask Jay, she has driven mine
over long distances and didnt seem to have any trouble at all. It drives exactly like a stock kombi, only with more power.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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amazer
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 04:40 PM |
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Pleeease dont take that as a 1916 bash. It isnt and that argument has been done to death. My points about stroke go for any combination you care to
put together.
By the way I've got Jays report on turbo driveability. the question I asked was what do you think of this statement..."I would also suggest
that turbo's are not typically a user friendly motor for your average driver."
| Quote: |
I would suggest that the author think about all the turbos in modern ve-hicles which are used as daily drivers (thinking wrx etc).
I'd drive a turbo >
Yeah your kombi is definitely quite drivable - even for a chick 
Errr.. I did accidentally do 130k/h though... I reckon that makes it
MORE drivable!!
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Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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Jeza
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 06:27 PM |
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Having read the odd post re T4 engines at STF I thought the general concensus was that it isn't really much heavier than a T1 (Joe Cali mentions
a figure of 25lbs in his upright conversion manual).
So the pendulum thing shouldn't be a reason to flag the T4 option.
As for cost- well I havn't priced things up but a well built 2l T4 that is vaguely modified from stock has claims of 115hp from the type 4um, and
thats plenty o power for me to cause trouble and shouldn't cost
much more than a well moded T1
Any thoughts???
Jeremy
[Edited on 4-6-2003 by Jeza]
......random gibberish for today.......
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Bizarre
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 06:45 PM |
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Just take ol'Jakes 115hp with a grain of salt.
One of his motors was on ebay the other day and yeah .... a bit was revealed.
It was 120 ponies - on the bench
no fan belt
advanced to hell
on race gas
A stock 2L put out 70 ponies
It would take a bit to get 115 at the wheels out of it
Jak has hit 100 at the wheels out of a T1 and that has taken a few years
In a 100hp 1000kg car every 10kgs = i pony at the wheel.
It all adds up
Not knocking the T4... i own one. Has torque from hell, just.......
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Che Castro
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 07:42 PM |
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type 4's are similar pricing to type 1's in terms of internal parts. The expense is in the cooling system when you put it in a beetle and
the custom exhaust that u have to fabricate.
turbos are a lot of work to do properly.
as dave said, do up the rest of the car first, like brakes, suspension (replace all bushings with polyurethane), replaces balljoints, steering box
etc, fitting a berg front transmission mount is a good idea to stop wheel hop. Get all that sorted first before u get an engine
Jon
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Golde60
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| posted on June 4th, 2003 at 10:23 PM |
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t4 for me
i decided on a 2L t4 cos it has better power and factory reliability.
i will get it dynoed one day and tell one and all what it makes at the rear wheels.
i decided t4 cos of the need to drive daily. remember the more stress and the more mods then chances are the more tlc it will need.
and the price of a built engine was too much. i got mine second hand, zero kms and warrantied ("in the mail" to get all this in a 1916 would have cost around 6k.
i ll get mine in the car for around 4.
thanks brad
:bounce
...................( O \ l / O ).....................
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Andy
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| posted on June 5th, 2003 at 01:06 AM |
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Didn't Porsche 914's get 100hp from the type 4 motor?
What did they do? Head work cam and carbs?
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70AutoStik
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| posted on June 5th, 2003 at 01:36 AM |
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I would seriously question the advice that type 4s are no more expensive to work than 1s - look at some prices. The type 4 world never really got off
the ground and with the much smaller market everything costs a lot more than type 1s. Going to this sort of size will definitely shorten the life
expectancy of an engine, but as you won't get it road registered, who cares? It is currently possible to build a 2910cc type 1, but you'd
be wise to make it a methanol engine, as the 101.5mm cylinders will have difficulty cooling (there's just not enough space between them.) This
would make for a pretty serious strip motor, however, especially if you added an Eaton Supercharger!
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Bizarre
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| posted on June 5th, 2003 at 07:18 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Andy
Didn't Porsche 914's get 100hp from the type 4 motor?
What did they do? Head work cam and carbs?
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Yes - the euro spec 2.0L got about that
higher CR
domed pistons
different cam
better valved heads
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on June 6th, 2003 at 01:36 AM |
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Who came up with this 'Volkswagen never changed it so you shouldn't either' nonsense?
When VW went from the 40HP 1200 to the 1300 cc engine (1966 in Australia), they increased the stroke from 64mm to 69mm. This was a completely new
crankshaft forging. You can take this further with aftermarket cranks.
When VW increased the 1800 Type 4 motor to 2000cc, they increased the stroke from 66mm to 71mm - by offset-grinding the crank journals. 2-litre cranks
have 50mm big-end journals, compared with 55mm on 1700 and 1800cc engines.
There is nothing wrong with increasing the stroke of VW engines - it has been a standard way of inceasing the engine's output for more than 50
years. Guess how Porsche increased the power of the 998cc pre-war KdF engine for the 1939 Berlin-Rome race car? You guessed it, they increased the
stroke.
Porsche fans on Type 4 engines - no problem. What do you think Porsche 914 engines have??!! These are run directly off the crankshaft nose, not from a
pulley.
Aircraft piston engines turn SLOWLY. The typical Lycoming four-cylinder engine in Cessna 180s turns at 2200 rpm in cruise and 2400 in full-power
climb. Those engines are designed for torque, not power. Similarly, Merlin V12 engines in WW2 Mustangs and Spitfires would commonly develop their
maximum power - perhaps 1500 hp - at less than 3000 rpm. I leave it to you to calculate the mind-boggling torque those engines are producing.
And above all, as hot-rodders have known for years...all else being equal, the only substitute for cubic inches is MORE cubic inches. A good big
engine will always beat a good little engine.
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jakriz
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| posted on June 6th, 2003 at 01:43 AM |
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Just stroke it, u won't be dissapointed,........now where did I put that 86mm crank?..........
Jak
Congratulations to Ben Durie for breaking the hillclimb record at Ringwood in his stroker beetle!
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Doug Pobjoy
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| posted on June 6th, 2003 at 08:00 PM |
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This one goes out to amazer!
Easy Tiger...
Firstly, I didnt shoot down any ones opinions. Scroll back and have a look. So far, it is me that has copped all the criticism. At least I anwered the
question asked? Why dont you have a go?
Also, did I not say you could take it or leave it? So dont get so emotional, your a big boy, you can cope cant you?*hands a tissue to amazer*
Secondly, It would seem that I have been missunderstood as to what I meant when I made this statement:
Stroking effects engine geometry/dynamics in a motor too. Something I think Volksagen would have put alot of thought into when orginally designing the
motor. Who are we to correct them? As Steve Irwin would say "Best not too muck with it!"
My reference to not correcting Volkswagen engine design was NOT to be taken as a common rule. I was only referring to the engine geometry. I believe
that VW's are over engineered and therefore can take increases in performance, unlike any other motor. That is why I like em! But when it comes
to engine geometry, I dont feel I know enough to mess with it. I know that when you lengthen the stroke on a motor, you will upset geometry. Load will
move, angles get steeper, torque will increase but at what cost? When you prove to me how the geometry could be improved or not effected by stroking a
1600cc then I might consider it. Otherwise I would suggest it should be left alone. May I also say that "what works here MUST work there" is
not fantastic logic. People who COPY and dont UNDERSTAND usually make mistakes.
And pleeeeaaassse dont expect me to accept what I read in magazines as fact. I have met too many people who THINK they know what they are talking
about cause they read magazienes. I dont see mag's as a credibile source of information.
Thirdly, in regards to why VW designed a type 4 motor. I dont believe VW thought the 1600 case couldnt be bored out. I believe that they realised than
one motor cant suit everything. Magnesium alloy cases were designed for a beetle... not for Kombi's. With a Kombi's extra weight (refering
to later models) they required more strength, and that is why I believe the alloy case 1800 & 2ltr were designed. Not because magnesium cases were
inferior, but simply not suitable for the application.
Finally, in reference to turbo's. 1 atmosphere (15psi) and up is a decent amount of boost. What type of car is it in? The kombi in your pic?
When I was talking about driveability I was reffering to the dangerously tire smoking (while the car side steps) gear changes I see when mazda's
and datsun's run turbo's and fang it (street or drags), and also having to keep it up the revs to keep up the boost.
Congratulate your wife on driving the kombi and point out that new car engines with turbo's fiited have obviously been designed around it.
Therefore they are not the same as bolting on a turbo to a naturally aspirated motor. Like I said, turbo's can be fun, but on a VW using road
fuel, I can say I havent seen anything that amazes me, and believe me I have been to nearly every VW event since I was born. Only ever seems to be the
same performance which could be achieved through proper engine mods without all the extra fuss of a turbo. Its all just more stuff that could go
wrong.
But hey, everyone has their own brain. I am sure we can all figure things out for ourselves. Make your case answering the question and let everyone
work out what they believe is correct. Something more than a one line suggestion would be more appropriate I think.
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Doug Pobjoy
Learner Dubber
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 posted on June 6th, 2003 at 08:21 PM |
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Amazer: typo
When I said:
"Congratulate your wife on driving the kombi AND point out that new car engines with turbo's fiited have obviously been designed around
it."
I made a gramatical error. What I meant to say was:
"Congratulate your wife on driving the kombi BUT point out that new car engines with turbo's fitted have been designed around it."
I did not mean to insinuate any disrespect. I was seriously congratulating her, I would imagine boost that high could be twitchy. I could see the
potential for this to be misread so I have replied immedietly to correct it. I apologise for any negative tone implied.
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on June 6th, 2003 at 09:58 PM |
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depends...
biiiig question, how much time (rebuilding, and tinkering) and money (replacing, buying bits, paying for machining etc) are you willing to spend? and
do you want it to drive streetwise, or drive ludicrously fast for short bursts?
i reckon build a laster wot goes faster
budget 7k.
this might help direct your enquiries... or maybe it won't. either way the wealth of experience here should beat magazine advertorial hands down.
let sleeping dubs lie
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amazer
Bishop of Volkswagenism
kombi pilot
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| posted on June 7th, 2003 at 04:54 PM |
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| Quote: | With a Kombi's
extra weight (refering to later models) they required more strength, and that is why I believe the alloy case 1800 & 2ltr were designed. Not
because magnesium cases were inferior, but simply not suitable for the application.
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If that is the case why arent they called a type 2 engine? I always thought they were designed for a type 4 and used in a kombi. In any case its no
point either of us worrying because we all know we can reliably punch more out of them than what VW did. I cant even remember my own point. Think it
was something to do with the 'VW wouldnt do it' thing. I wouldnt do a type 4 in a beetle myself, although I do have one in my fastback.
| Quote: | Finally, in
reference to turbo's. 1 atmosphere (15psi) and up is a decent amount of boost. What type of car is it in? The kombi in your pic?
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The kombi in that pic was running 18psi on standard unleaded. When I raced it I added 30% toluene to premium @ 22psi. It audibly pinged at 25, so
backed it off a bit. The one I am running now (in a kombi) is just under 10psi boost on standard. I think that is reasonable. I'd like to run
more but need to work on carburettion a bit more. I bought the whole car for $400. Its an 1800 (at least by engine number). Just replaced the solexes
with a DMTT weber, bolted on a very crude exhaust I was given with a used Audi turbo. Hardly hi tech and no ball tearer but its cheap. was running an
intercooler until my subaru water pump died. Something I must fix.
| Quote: | When I was talking
about driveability I was reffering to the dangerously tire smoking (while the car side steps) gear changes I see when mazda's and datsun's
run turbo's and fang it (street or drags), and also having to keep it up the revs to keep up the boost.
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Do you see the turbo VW's at the drags stepping dangerously sideways? While it is true that my car wont make full boost or power at 3000,
i'm positive that a normally aspirated engine, even with only mild cam wont either.
| Quote: | But hey, everyone
has their own brain. I am sure we can all figure things out for ourselves. Make your case answering the question and let everyone work out what they
believe is correct.
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I dont care if someone goes 2180 NA, 1916, 1776 turbo, 3litre type 4, 2.5 litre subaru. Its no skin off my nose. I just have a need to correct
misinformation. Your statements on turbo charging are just plain wrong in my opinion. If you were to say that turbo charging is a hassle finding room
for a turbo, plumbing exhaust and intake, intercooling, then I would agree (although you could copy what has already been done) but there are no
problems with fuel or driveability in a properly set up system.
I didnt offer 'the answer' because there is no answer. It depends on budget, application, inclination, time, even probably your age.
I supose if I had enough funds and inclination to do a beetle I would build a 2.1 cut down wasserboxer. They are aluminium. There's plenty of
meat in the main bearing areas. very solid lifter bores. Deep sump cast in. And I would probably go normally aspirated quad throttle body fuel
injection. Wouldnt mind hearing some induction roar for a while.
PS yes I do get upset easily :cry
and just so there's no confusion later, Jay isnt my wife, she's my best mate.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
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| posted on June 8th, 2003 at 08:09 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 56astro
Over a certain capacity you will require a brake booster.....That's if you want it street-legal and all!
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Astro, this is not correct. A brake booster will do absolutely nothing to increase the braking performance of a car. It will however stop girls with
weak legs complaining of a stiff brake pedal. A brake booster is not a legal requirement.
Over a certain size you may be asked to install rear disc brakes (and front) at the engineers disgretion. I run 4 wheel discs with no brake booster
and my pedal pressure if fine. Installing a brake booster would just lose the brake feel and make them lock easy. Don't believe the "drums
are self energising" and don't need boosters, but discs aren't so do, because it's crap. Tell me how many road bikes have brake
boosters.
For RTA restrictions on size and the mods you have to do, check here http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi06.pdf
While I am here, 1 atmosphere is actually 14.7psi not 15, but close enough I guess.
The "VW must have done it for a reason, don't change it" arguement is completely ridiculous. VW were out to make a very cheap, very
fuel efficient long life motor. If this is what you want, then don't change what VW did.
If you want high HP, don't mind crap economy then obviously you will have to change what VW did. VW didn't do anything for performance.
Therefore if you want performance, you'll have to change just about everything VW did.
Listen to Amazer, he's been there and done that. I have seen his type 3 getting the crap flogged out of it at Valla, and it was very impressive.
And anyone that can get a kombi into the 14's down the 1/4 must be doing something right.
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jakriz
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on June 9th, 2003 at 07:03 AM |
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Seriously guys, this arguement has been done to death in so many forms & so many times, I personally know of people that have left the forum &
say they aren't coming back, this crap has got to stop.
At the end of the day, as far as I'm concerned, as long as there are hot VW's running around in one form or another beating up other makes,
not each other, then thats what it's all about to me.
It's so easy for one person to have a faster VW than the other, most of the time it's the size of the wallet, but who cares?
Lets all enjoy going quick in vW's, period.
regards
Jak
[Edited on 8-6-2003 by jakriz]
Congratulations to Ben Durie for breaking the hillclimb record at Ringwood in his stroker beetle!
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vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
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| posted on June 9th, 2003 at 07:19 AM |
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thank goodness some one has said that.
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jakriz
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on June 9th, 2003 at 09:47 AM |
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Whew, thats a releif Ben, I thought all the stroker comments were for me.
I'll sleep now.
Jak
Congratulations to Ben Durie for breaking the hillclimb record at Ringwood in his stroker beetle!
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