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 fullnoise3
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 09:06 AM |
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CT056 cam choice.
Welcome to the inside of my head. I've always wanted to start a post with that sentance considering how I rabbit on.
Ye olde 1916 has gone from 76 to 99.9 HP over the years with no change in compression, exhaust or carbs.
Cam history.
Pobjoy old-steroids 37/68.
Liked it, it's still mint with matching lifters. I may reuse it in another engine. It had good power, good fuel economy and didn't have enough lift
to cause valve train wear (except with the 44 inlet valve street eliminators I chose when I had NFI).
Webcam 109.
This is a bit of an open wound.
Some commercially dishonest yanks said to use this cam with 1.25 rockers and DRD Level 5 heads. To be safe I used it with 1.1 rockers and a smidge of
coil bind ate the lifters after 1000 kms during the first track day. This was supposed to be equivalent to the engle 125 but more modern.
Engle 130
No complaints in power and reliability. However it's a bit heavy on fuel. My freeway engine speeds vary between 3500 and 4000 rpm. It's richest at
2500 rpm. I think it's due to the overlap, reversion of such a long duration cam.
What to try?
For starters I'm going to try a rocker cam with chromoly pushrods even though there's nothing wrong with the 1.1 rocker cams. You should see my 130
and the lifters. There polished like chrome with not even a hint of pitting after about 8,000 miles, 5 track days, a Dutton rally, 2 trips to Portland
and 2 trips to Warwick.
A K8 is looking likely. The flow chart suggests the heads could do with the extra lift of 1.4 rockers. I want to reduce the duration to bring the
power down the rev range a little and make the car a bit more economical on long trips. That way the cam change will pay for itself.
A K10 is tempting after seeing how hard Colin's car goes. His heads are heaps bigger than mine though.
Rembember I'm dealing with 040 heads with mini D inlet ports and exhaust ports that look stock except for the fact they've removed the exhaust guide
boss.
I'll have to get the heads machined or longer valves to make 1.4 rockers work.
Straight cuts could also be on the cards.
Then there's the freshly rebuilt IDAs on the work bench, but I doubt the heads are big enough.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.
Disagreement, argument, suggestion and abuse is requested wtih this post.
CYA CT3
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 09:21 AM |
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YAY, ratio rockers are goooooood, free power and better for valve train as far as i'm concerned!!!
yeah, K8 is very nice and streetable too......i worry the highway speed rpm might be bang on the "come in" spot with that cam tho your close ratios
will make it great on the track, i've only run it with 48's, so 44's might be cleaner through the rpm range
..agree the K10 might be too much for the heads.......
i know a few fans of the V26 tho( one that has had experience with every cam in the engle range and insisted that's what i built around) and suspect
our heads would be vey similar...... come up and have a drive of mine anytime........i'm sure DB will fill you in on it's performance and one of his
old customers results and longevity with it
straight cuts will drive you nuts............. i'm nuts about them
.......all in all, i don't know poop tho, cant wait to see what others have to say
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bat69
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 09:36 AM |
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I love straight cut cam gears but I think they will send you bonkers when driving the thing on the street. I know this is not the same but my beetle
has straight cuts in the box and I have to wear ear plugs when driving it around the block let alone driving it on the freeway at 4000rpm all the way
to Portland.. As for the cam. Stick with what you got, it works doesnt it?
White Knuckle Racing Team
"Drive it like dirt"
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BiX
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 12:32 PM |
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CT,
I have been running the W120 with 1.25:1 in my new engine. Done about 10k on it......... could be an option to reduce duration but not lift? try the
table below....do you want the excel version?
Cam Brand Spec Adver Dur Dur @ 0.05 Cam Lift 1.1 1.25 1.4
Tighe 356C 264 224 0.385 0.424 0.529 0.539
Tighe 149 270 230 0.360 0.396 0.495 0.504
Eagle (CB) 2233 270 234 0.371 0.408 0.510 0.519
Eagle (CB) 2239 276 234 0.380 0.418 0.523 0.532
Eagle (CB) 2234 274 234 0.387 0.426 0.532 0.542
Eagle (CB) 2238 274 236 0.319 0.351 0.439 0.447
Eagle (CB) 2236* 280 236 0.339 0.373 0.466 0.475
Eagle (CB) 2235 272 236 0.374 0.411 0.514 0.524
Tighe 548 280 238 0.375 0.413 0.516 0.525
Tighe 140A 288 240 0.330 0.363 0.454 0.462
Eagle (CB) 2241 286 240 0.386 0.425 0.531 0.540
Engle Fk7 288 244 0.357 0.393 0.446 0.500
Eagle (CB) 2237 278 244 0.421 0.463 0.579 0.589
Engle W110 284 247 0.392 0.431 0.490 0.549
Eagle (CB) 2242 298 248 0.389 0.428 0.535 0.545
Eagle (CB) 2240 286 248 0.430 0.473 0.591 0.602
Tighe 416C 290 251 0.368 0.405 0.506 0.515
Web-cam 86A 290 252 0.334 0.367 0.459 0.468
Engle W120 294 253 0.397 0.437 0.496 0.556
Tighe 148A 285 253 0.400 0.440 0.550 0.560
Web-cam 110 284 256 0.348 0.383 0.479 0.487
Tighe 253B 284 256 0.422 0.464 0.580 0.591
Engle VZ25 282 256 0.429 0.472 0.590 0.601
Engle Fk8 298 258 0.382 0.420 0.478 0.535
Web-cam 86B 300 260 0.383 0.421 0.527 0.536
Engle W125 301 262 0.418 0.460 0.523 0.585
Engle VZ30 298 262 0.461 0.507 0.634 0.645
Tighe 149A 298 263 0.393 0.432 0.540 0.550
Engle FK10 310 266 0.385 0.424 0.529 0.539
Engle W130 308 267 0.419 0.461 0.576 0.587
Engle FK46 301 268 0.409 0.450 0.562 0.573
Tighe 133 300 270 0.451 0.496 0.620 0.631
Engle W140 313 274 0.424 0.466 0.583 0.594
Engle FK47 308 276 0.419 0.461 0.576 0.587
Engle FK87 320 276 0.401 0.441 0.551 0.561
Engle VZ35 309 278 0.448 0.493 0.616 0.627
Tighe 1002 338 280 0.480 0.528 0.660 0.672
Engle FK89 328 282 0.416 0.458 0.572 0.582
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 01:32 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by fullnoise3
Disagreement, argument, suggestion and abuse is requested wtih this post.
CYA CT3
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OK. U smell.
Jak
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Cam
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 01:48 PM |
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Trust you to open the flood gates, Jak.
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fullnoise3
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 02:28 PM |
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Okay Jak. You drive like a girl!
Before you say it, yes you are faster than me in my own car.
CT
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 04:28 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by fullnoise3
Okay Jak. You drive like a girl!
CT
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I can't compete with that.
Jak
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fullnoise3
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 05:01 PM |
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Ridiculous people.
At least I win at something.
Did I leave my "I'm with stupid" shirt at your place?
Wanna do a hillclimb?
Jak you're a whimp.
CYA CT
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fullnoise3
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 05:08 PM |
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Joel
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 05:19 PM |
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keep it going your keeping the rest of us amused
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 vw54
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 05:27 PM |
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CT get the BIGGEST bumps you can
whats the cam FK89 or ??? cuts in about 5 grand and pumps
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vw54
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 05:30 PM |
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Hey CT how come u got 2 user IDs nowdays
do u want me to FIX them to one again
ring me tomorrow 8304-4109 when u get to work
What stickey tyres 15 x 205 do u have in stock for the circuit car
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fullnoise3
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 05:54 PM |
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ADVAN A050
We've got some weapon soft compound 205/50R15 ADVAN A050s on a boat which may be here in the next month.
I won't tell you where the first set will be going but I'll give you a hint. It's a car that currently has no camshaft.
Come to think of it the camshaft might be on the same boat as the tyres. I hope it doesn't sink.
I couldn't login to my old ID. I probably entered my password incorrectly too many times.
CYA CT
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vw54
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 06:45 PM |
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ring me in the morning and i will fix yr ID etc etc
hope its not the SLOWBOAT
any idea on a special pricing for the tyres
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 07:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by fullnoise3
At least I win at something.
Did I leave my "I'm with stupid" shirt at your place?
Wanna do a hillclimb?
Jak you're a whimp.
CYA CT
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now thats just plain nasty.
But back on topic, I think u shouldnt' change the camshaft.
The thought
Lets put 19's on your car, fully fully sik...........then we'll enter it into.......
blah blah blah, dribble dribble , heres a mug.........
The Reply
I know what u are saying, but your loosing your enthusiasm. Converting a 2.7L back to 1880cc is certainly innovative but it is really enough to brag
about. mor blah blah & plenty of dribble.
"We've got to stop building engines for people, it's just too messy........
Well u know the rest.
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vassy66T1
A.k.a.: Marcus Vass
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 07:12 PM |
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This is definitely the funniest thread I have seen on here in ages.
sets a new benchmark for nonsense
I am still digesting the good oil on camshafts though so keep it coming, particularly those who don't drive the car down the highway but do race
other then drag...
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colin
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 08:35 PM |
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Okay CT here we go
BIG valve heads,
K8 or k10 cam,
1.45.1 berg ratio rockers,
straight cuts,
48IDA carbs 135-140 main 45-50 idle 180 air 37 vents.
If your going to do something do it 100%.
These yokhama a050 r specys mmmmmmmmmm yum yum.
Cheers Col
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ian.mezz
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 08:44 PM |
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ahhhhh get a Subaru and you get 4 cams hehehe
c u Ian
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 matberry
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 08:56 PM |
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Now that's cam a list, need to throw in some Berg options too, excel would make it easier for my tired old eyes.
Daimo's got the idea for someone that knows poop, 1.4 rocker's are a must, K8's a good option, but really I'd aim for headjob (bigger valves and
good port job) and Fk87 maybe, I love em. What compression you running, and 100km/h rpm?
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Cam
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 10:58 PM |
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Good to see you back to regular posting Jak
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on April 16th, 2009 at 11:57 PM |
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umm, cams here.....
http://www.actionimport.com/Tech_Files/cam_information.htm
Gene berg 309 = engle v26
GB 310 =K8
GB 311 =K10
GB 315 = FK87
........ive said before, but best accurate cam real "performance" descriptions come from the berg books and website, from there you can see
duration, lift and engle equivelet
good one Ian M
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on April 17th, 2009 at 06:59 AM |
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I must sound like a broken record.
DONT USE K8.(some brands may be OK)
I know 6 people who have used it (the one that Berg does with the lobe so small it is through the induction hardening),
and every one of them had low power and /or broke valve train parts.
R H: broken Berg rocker studs("get autocraft ones" they said)
G H: Broken rocker arms
D P: Broken rocker studs and low power
B W: low power and exhaust Carbon on BACK of inlet valve
A H: low power(I told you not to choose that cam).
R F: low power
This was aggrivated by ratios larger than 1.4, and loose lash.
...and it needs 1.4s to work.
CB does their own version and it works fine with 1.4s.
Berg's cam list descriptions are accurate except that better heads and larger rocker ratios will extend the rev range beyond his numbers.
Another factor worth considering CT,
is that large lift will give a symptom similar to extending the duration,
so your choice will have to factor this in.
V26 is the one you want, or even something smaller if you are using a rocker ratio larger than 1.4.
FK87 generally comes on between 3500 and 4000 so may work with your small heads by being
below the power band on the highway.
The number on the dyno WILL be higher, but perhaps not much fun on long trips(fuel economy).
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on April 17th, 2009 at 08:10 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dangerous
Berg's cam list descriptions are accurate except that better heads and larger rocker ratios will extend the rev range beyond his numbers.
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yes, i will remember to mention that in the future...........
nice info as usual there DB
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 17th, 2009 at 09:06 AM |
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Would the Tighe 149A be similiar to the V26 ??
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on April 17th, 2009 at 09:08 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Cam
Good to see you back to regular posting Jak
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Yes Cam, but it's time that I will never get back.....
Go the K8 CT, I had engle versions & billet versions , ran them with single Berg springs & Dual springs, ran them with 1.25 rockers & 1.45
rockers. Never ever had cam or Drivetrain issues. Ever. Wether taking the kids to school or trying to keep up with u on the track.
Jak
PS u still smell
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cnfabo
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| posted on April 17th, 2009 at 10:05 AM |
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hey dave, i have a k8 but with 1.25 rockers. i know u dont like it, but should i put 1.4's in.
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Captain Cockatoo
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| posted on April 17th, 2009 at 07:34 PM |
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I have used the K8 with good results so far
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colin
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| posted on April 17th, 2009 at 08:13 PM |
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Sorry Dave have to respectifully disagree.
Used a K8 cam for over 3years of racing no probs at all.
Cheers Col
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colin
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| posted on April 17th, 2009 at 08:15 PM |
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To add my K8 was an engle.
Cheers Col
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