| [ Total Views: 4502 | Total Replies: 58 | Thread Id: 81135 ] |
| Pages: 1 2 |
|
|
 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on January 3rd, 2010 at 04:34 PM |
|
|
Why have a non VW engine conversion?
Reasons to use non VW engines
The choice to select auto power plant, over the coriginal type, should not be taken lightly. It is not as simple as: "I WANT TO SAVE SOME MONEY" If
this was my reason then I would not have started the project. My choice of an alternative to VW power results from:
Desire for a newer technology,
Belief that there is an alternative solution to Porsche and Corvair
Exercising the experimental desires of the individual,
Belief that by reducing maintenance costs, the likelihood of completing a more thorough maintenance programme is probable, thus improving the inherent
reliability,
Belief that there is an engine that does not have to be molly coddled to keep it alive whilst in operation,
A more fuel efficient engine for the power obtained is out there enabling more driving hours, or more speed, for the same operating cost.
|
|
|
 Jak Rizzo
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 837
Threads: 67
Registered: April 26th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Central Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Pastizzi eating
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 06:37 AM |
|
|
Why have a non vw engine conversion?
because "I WANT TO SAVE SOME MONEY" simple, & I did & I have. CT & I worked out that once we got to about 100+hp @ the wheels with our
VW engines, it was costing $100 for about 1 hp @ the wheels extra. thats when I decided to put the brakes on the vw engine.
i sold my vw engine , did my conversion & made $3200 profit.
Even if I take into account the wrx engine rebuild later on, I still made $900.
So yes, I did my conversion to save some money, & I was building my own vw engines so was spending half of what most guys spend.
regards
Jak
|
|
|
JVLRacing
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1100
Threads: 30
Registered: March 6th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 12:48 PM |
|
|
This is and old door opening to new comments
Jakos project deffently shows u that u can do it on a very small budget.....subie conversion! with plenty hps on tap
|
|
|
alien8
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 521
Threads: 84
Registered: September 5th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Powder
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 01:14 PM |
|
|
What would it cost for somone who does not work on their car for whatever reason to have a non VW engine transplanted?
$8000, $10000?
Following Joels thread on his Subi conversion there is a far amount of custom tinkering involved with the swap. The labour cost would be quite high if
paying a pro workshop to carry out the work.
To spend $10000 on a $3000 Beetle would probably seem outrageous for most in this position?
It makes total sense if you have the skill or the desire and access to tools to do the conversion. A better engine makes total sense. For the rest of
us it is just a dream.
I would use a non Vw engine in a heartbeat.
|
|
|
Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
Threads: 94
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Content
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 01:29 PM |
|
|
To pay a shop to build and install a 200HP VW motor into your car would be very expensive and probably quite unreliable too.
I did it to learn about modern engines and EFI, and I did that. I also did it as a cheaper alternative to trying to get more power from a VW motor
(like Jak, I had a ~100HP VW motor already and getting more power was costly). I also wanted something reliable and nice to drive, the V6 is that. I
was sick of fiddling with the webers on the 1916 whenever they got a bit of dirt in the idle jets or didn't want to work for some other odd reason.
I was actually planning on building my own twin supercharged type 4 motor for my Baja. I had two type 4 motors stripped down and ready to go. But then
I priced VW stuff. To rebuild the type 4 to stock was going to cost more than the V6 conversion.
|
|
|
ian.mezz
Wolfsburg Elder
I never said, I could write or spell
Posts: 3913
Threads: 280
Registered: September 11th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 01:58 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by alien8
What would it cost for somone who does not work on their car for whatever reason to have a non VW engine transplanted?
$8000, $10000?
Following Joels thread on his Subi conversion there is a far amount of custom tinkering involved with the swap. The labour cost would be quite high if
paying a pro workshop to carry out the work.
To spend $10000 on a $3000 Beetle would probably seem outrageous for most in this position?
It makes total sense if you have the skill or the desire and access to tools to do the conversion. A better engine makes total sense. For the rest of
us it is just a dream.
I would use a non Vw engine in a heartbeat.
|
this quote is correct.
To spend $10000 on a $3000 Beetle would probably seem outrageous for most in this position?
yo u have to be a car buff to spend that sort of money on a motor I certainly wouldn't do that to my every day ford laser wagon
It was cheap to do and the vw is just so much better to drive and that's the part I like about cars driving them, some people just like to look at
em
I am in front like Jak cause we got a WRX wreck and sold everything on Ebay and kept the motor
|
|
|
bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
Posts: 6661
Threads: 534
Registered: April 8th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Tanah Merah, SE-QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: A bee bit ma' bottom, now ma' bottom's big!
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 03:01 PM |
|
|
Regardless of engine, it was still born a vw, and nuffin will ever change that. Soif it keeps the V8 egotistic macho boys at bay and the teenie bopper
in his 90's body kited lancer or excel in the dust then you get every salute and pat on the back from me  
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 04:08 PM |
|
|
as already said its a much cheaper alternative if you can do it yourself
as soon as i sell my 1776 even buying a second engine ill probably still be infront
excluding the cost of the second engine my entire conversion on the road and engineered cost less than a stock 1600 rebuild
and if i had of modified the sump and loom myself theres nearly another $900 i could have saved, but i still wouldnt go that way for the sake of
saving $900, it was so worth it
Pros:
the engines are everywhere, every wrecker in aus would almost have an EJ of some description
its fit with no body mods other than the valance being made removable
its nearly triple the power of a 1600
gets better fuel economy
is 100x smoother
and will have 2-3x the lifespan of a vw engine
and that sexy note
con:
had to cut the front for a radiator but i've done it in a manner that will take me about half an hour with a welder to reverse
...that is all....
|
|
|
rocknrob
A.k.a.: Rob
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 844
Threads: 90
Registered: December 18th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Black
Mood: mystic
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 06:10 PM |
|
|
theres another downside joel...i had reason to come down to murwillumbah today and to make the drive home interesting i went home via chillingham and
numinbah valley. I'm sure you know the road from chillingham up to the border gate and you know it was raining today...heheh...in second going up the
steep part just to take it easy in the rain but the boost kept braking traction if i eased the foot too far down....bugga! my old 1800 engine didn't
have that problem!
|
|
|
helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 06:48 PM |
|
|
I just thought it would be a good discussion point.
I believe the engine wins the race, not the car body. So If a Subaru engined VW can beat a Ricer or Commondore at the drags, then it is a Subaru win.
There are some perspectives that have to be kept.
|
|
|
kombibob
Custom Title Time!
AKA: Volkswagen Type 2 Transporter Van Robert
Posts: 1698
Threads: 173
Registered: May 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: noosa hinterland
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Grey
Mood: at by cows
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 07:06 PM |
|
|
Yep i sold my old subi powered bay to help with the deposit on the house,
really miss the smooth power on tap, so im about to do something the purists will hate! and convert el concreto our single cab split to ej22 power.
thinking rad in the tresure chest with most of the air coming from the orig double skinned roof air intakes.
once again any mod i do could be undone in a weekend.
1961 swb buggy
1960 karmann ghia
1963 Single Cab: "El Concreto"
1963 bent 23 window " Frieda Samba "
1963 Eriba Faun camper " Cara Van daCamp"
2012 Skoda Octavia scout
Get down low and go,go,go
|
|
|
rocknrob
A.k.a.: Rob
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 844
Threads: 90
Registered: December 18th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Black
Mood: mystic
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 07:09 PM |
|
|
for some of us peter it is not a race...in my case its getting the maximum enjoyment out of my kombi. I'm not a drag racer...never hard on the clutch
but just enjoy all the benefits of a kombi camper which is far from slow
|
|
|
helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 07:56 PM |
|
|
Oh I totally understand that it is not a race. I was just letting people know my opinion on race win brand feelings.
I still remember the sweet 1800 we had in the bus when it was running clean and pure, and at 100kph it had an almost hypnotic sound that you had to
relax and enjoy.
|
|
|
crsedge
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 687
Threads: 84
Registered: January 4th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Cheery
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 10:14 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by alien8
What would it cost for somone who does not work on their car for whatever reason to have a non VW engine transplanted?
$8000, $10000?
Following Joels thread on his Subi conversion there is a far amount of custom tinkering involved with the swap. The labour cost would be quite high if
paying a pro workshop to carry out the work.
|
Are there any commercial businesses that perform the subi conversion into Beetles for those of us unable or unskilled to do it ourselves? If so, where
are they located?
Cheers
Craig
May '55 Oval
|
|
|
ian.mezz
Wolfsburg Elder
I never said, I could write or spell
Posts: 3913
Threads: 280
Registered: September 11th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 10:21 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by crsedge
| Quote: | Originally
posted by alien8
What would it cost for somone who does not work on their car for whatever reason to have a non VW engine transplanted?
$8000, $10000?
Following Joels thread on his Subi conversion there is a far amount of custom tinkering involved with the swap. The labour cost would be quite high if
paying a pro workshop to carry out the work.
|
Are there any commercial businesses that perform the subi conversion into Beetles for those of us unable or unskilled to do it ourselves? If so, where
are they located?
Cheers
Craig
|
where you from ???
|
|
|
waltermitty
Custom Title Time!
Legend when my beer goggles are on
Posts: 1993
Threads: 268
Registered: August 29th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Port Macquarie now Yipee!
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Grey
Mood: Hungry for mor
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 10:34 PM |
|
|
What sort of economy can you expect from a subi in a bus Hellbus? Mitchell
23 windows ...8 too many!
|
|
|
helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on January 4th, 2010 at 11:37 PM |
|
|
Economy is around 11litre/100km around town and 10l/100km country. Not much more economy fuel wise than the well tuned 1800.
|
|
|
crsedge
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 687
Threads: 84
Registered: January 4th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Cheery
|
| posted on January 5th, 2010 at 07:56 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ian.mezz
| Quote: | Originally
posted by crsedge
| Quote: | Originally
posted by alien8
What would it cost for somone who does not work on their car for whatever reason to have a non VW engine transplanted?
$8000, $10000?
Following Joels thread on his Subi conversion there is a far amount of custom tinkering involved with the swap. The labour cost would be quite high if
paying a pro workshop to carry out the work.
|
Are there any commercial businesses that perform the subi conversion into Beetles for those of us unable or unskilled to do it ourselves? If so, where
are they located?
Cheers
Craig
|
where you from ???
|
I am from Melbourne!
May '55 Oval
|
|
|
hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
23 Windows of Awesome
48's and straight cuts
Posts: 5080
Threads: 116
Registered: April 17th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Nambucca Valley NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: Couldn't care less
|
| posted on January 5th, 2010 at 08:09 AM |
|
|
i would say Mick's conversion cost a heap more than the $8-10k to get it looking half as good as a well dressed simple VW
motor.......................so perhaps it's a false economy if you want to keep your engine bay looking showy/neat?
Jak.........would that be the going rate for coversion for us other Tom, Dick and Harry's..........or was it another
"contact" thing to be so cheap?
i also think in the case of a breakdown/fault, it takes professional diagnosis to even find out what's gone wrong..........i know a new coil for the
missus impreza was $400, so spares aren't that cheap
comparing apples for apples..........a NEW VW engine v EJ crate motor complete would be interesting (with out the HP factoring involved)
i don't care either way and am lucky enough to use both set ups..........that's when the subie powered one isn't playing up at least
|
|
|
tar76
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1622
Threads: 95
Registered: December 18th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Ningi Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Rollin with The Dub Collective
|
| posted on January 5th, 2010 at 09:18 AM |
|
|
I'm not against changing the vee dub donk change out, what ever makes u happy. but i will say coming from a investment/collector point of veiw (
family has 6 GT falcons) if you have something special/rare i would personally not make massive changes like that.
"Obey your Dreams"!
62 Std beetle.
65 11 wnd Split "The Cross".
6? coming very soon!!!!
|
|
|
Jak Rizzo
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 837
Threads: 67
Registered: April 26th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Central Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Pastizzi eating
|
| posted on January 5th, 2010 at 10:37 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by hellbugged
Jak.........would that be the going rate for coversion for us other Tom, Dick and Harry's..........or was it another
"contact" thing to be so cheap?
i also think in the case of a breakdown/fault, it takes professional diagnosis to even find out what's gone wrong..........i know a new coil for the
missus impreza was $400, so spares aren't that cheap
|
yeh sure why not. Whilst I'm no mechanic, I do know my way around a garage. The only thing I didnt' pay for was for Paul to Install my Microtech. I
know that to have a Microtech purchased, installed & tuned is around $2000.
So lets for arguements sake say that i had paid to have to have a proffesional install it (although Pauls work would put most pro's to shame) on top
of the $1000 purchase price & $200 dyno time to tune it. I break even.
I'm still in front though as far as I'm concerned.
There is no tricks to my conversion, I just thought about it, thought some more, asked lots of questions to the Subaru guys, then went & did it. I
don't have 3 phase power in my garage, no hoist, simple tool kit. Any idiot can do it, I'm proof.
I'm sure Wes was in the same boat, although I think he's a little more qualified in the nugget department.
As for the coil packs, I bought 4 spare coil packs just in case, for $80.
regards
Jak
|
|
|
gerrelt
Slammed & Awesome Dubber
Posts: 88
Threads: 3
Registered: May 13th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 6th, 2010 at 05:46 AM |
|
|
I think it's a pitty people put money in aircooled engines when there are great modern engines lying in the scrapyard.
And their only "drawback" is their different cooling system.
But, to each their own, everybody should enjoy this hobby to their own likings.
|
|
|
Brian
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 263
Threads: 9
Registered: June 8th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 6th, 2010 at 06:14 AM |
|
|
I guess things like superbugs are very unloved at the moment so mixing brands doesn't matter so much.
In years to come when they become rare they may be restored to there former glory.
But fitting a subie to a splitty !
surely even a std vw engine is enough to push a splitty ute , they weigh nothing.
|
|
|
Manxdune
Slammed & Awesome Dubber
Posts: 81
Threads: 55
Registered: April 22nd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 6th, 2010 at 04:03 PM |
|
|
So which companies in which states do professional EJ22 Conversions ?
Thanks
|
|
|
helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on January 6th, 2010 at 05:20 PM |
|
|
Custom Vee Dub in QLD do a drive in drive out EJ22 conversion for busses, including all engineering and legal paperwork.
http://www.customveedub.com.au/
|
|
|
crsedge
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 687
Threads: 84
Registered: January 4th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Cheery
|
| posted on January 6th, 2010 at 07:17 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Custom Vee Dub in QLD do a drive in drive out EJ22 conversion for busses, including all engineering and legal paperwork.
http://www.customveedub.com.au/
|
.... but what about Beetles??
May '55 Oval
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on January 6th, 2010 at 07:52 PM |
|
|
im guessing westside do bugs as they did micks bug
i forgot to add another of the main reasons i converted was i wanted to get away from carbys and setup A/C
by the time i got EFI installed and tuned on a vw engine it would be more than what ive spent on the subi conversion
and it would still only be an old vw engine with vw tendencies at the end of the day
and mounting a compressor on a vw engine espeically one with twin weber or a supercharger was just going to be a nightmare
|
|
|
71EJVan
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 352
Threads: 23
Registered: August 19th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Central Coast NSW, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
|
| posted on January 7th, 2010 at 08:19 PM |
|
|
Here may be another reason.
2335 klms Central Coast to Brissy and back. 1550kgs + loaded to the roof lining.(probably over 2000kgs with all of us in it also)
9.9Litres/100klms with 200 horsepower.
Oh and no downshifting for overtaking lanes!
I'm never selling it.
Brendan
A VW for everyone!!
1972 1302 German Look
1971 Bay Panel with Subaru EJ20T
1970 Type 3 squareback in progress
1971 Type 3 notchback in progress
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on January 10th, 2010 at 03:42 PM |
|
|
my engine has 2457cc, 165hp stock and is lazy as all get out. It cost $4k 6 years back with ECU from a wrecker. You can't build a proper type4 with
oversize pots for that money. I know coz I looked into it. So for me, like a lot of you guys, it was $$$. I still like aircooled motors. They have
real advantages, but like most of you have said, real performance aircoolers cost real performance money and need real performance servicing. I don't
have the time for that, so I'll stick with the suby. I have dreams of working it and that, coz I reckon it has a safe NA 300hp in it with the right
cams, head work, pistons/rods and ITBs. But in reality, the engine will probably outlast me as is.
BTW, I think there is a huge difference between converting cars and buses. Cars it's about $$$, buses it's about power to weight. The only way to
get a bus to reliably go hard IMHO is to put a non-VW motor in it. They just weigh so much that an aircooled 4 can't really get them moving, that's
before you start adding aircon, proper alternator and wack a decent trailer on the back. If I ever buy a bay (which I'd love but the missus hates) it
will get a large capacity watercooled motor. Why muck around afterall.
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on January 10th, 2010 at 03:44 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Manxdune
So which companies in which states do professional EJ22 Conversions ?
Thanks
|
quickfit motorsport - hornsby
westside mufflers - bankstown(?)
|
|
|
| Pages: 1 2 |
