| [ Total Views: 1944 | Total Replies: 27 | Thread Id: 84595 ] |
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 fullnoise
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| posted on July 2nd, 2010 at 12:24 PM |
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Ain't no more horsepower in my engine.
I'm going to bolt IDAs to my car; just because I've got some (I've had them for years and never used them). I'm also going to add a serpentine
pulley because the standard ones are too high maintenance. Before I do this I wanted to dyno test the car so I know if I'm going forward or
backwards.
Before the Dutton Rally in 2007 I dynoed the car at 99.9 RWHP with the engle 130.
Last year I swapped the W130 for a K8 with 1.4 rockers and had Westside make up a proper exhaust from the header flange back. The car is now faster; 2
tenths quicker at Warwick (9.3 or 9.2 from memory) and 4 tenths faster around Wakefield park.
So when I dynoed the car today I was expecting 100+ HP. Unfortunately it's 94.6 HP. I figure the torque and driveability have improved, not the top
end horsepower.
I got the dyno operator to try and optimize the timing, but they couldn't improve it. The jetting is a little rich down low and a little lean up top.
But they wouldn't change it.
I'll see if the IDAs make a difference.
Don't get me wrong, the car feels like a rocket and it's real easy to drive, reliable, good on fuel etc.
What do I do now?
Get the mini D-ports flow benched with the IDA manifolds and ported for a better CFM?
An FK10 may have the benefits of K8 lift with W130 duration.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
esratrams
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hellbugged
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| posted on July 2nd, 2010 at 01:56 PM |
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sure looks like a nice curve
Send em up, im hanging to port another set of heads!
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on July 2nd, 2010 at 02:25 PM |
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You wanna do mine Daimo?!
I hate porting!!
It goes to show how often more power means less performance.
My current engine is 5hp less than my last,
but consistently a tenth, and 1mph faster.
The best way CT, to compare cams, is dial in the duration at the VALVE.
You could even plot a graph, on see-through paper, and overlay the different curves.
With your new cam having 1.4 rockers,
you may find that the "at the valve" duration at .050" may be a lot closer to your what W130 was "at the valve",
even though the lobe measures totally different.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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hellbugged
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| posted on July 2nd, 2010 at 02:30 PM |
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is it because the new power better suits the gearbox ratios for the improved pace DB?
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on July 2nd, 2010 at 02:31 PM |
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While I find that the .050" duration at the lobe is a good comparitor,
this comparison method only applies when using the same rocker system.
The "cylinder" only knows what the valve is doing.
It does not care how it was done.(ie ratio rocker or not)
Do lots of home work on your serpentine belt system.
Some have unreliable idlers,
and most overdrive the fan much more than stock.
You may have to engineer your system to the correct fan speed.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on July 2nd, 2010 at 02:35 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hellbugged
is it because the new power better suits the gearbox ratios for the improved pace DB?
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Yeah, most likely Daimo.
If I was game (stupid?) enough
to use more than the current 8400 limit,
the other engine may have been equally fast?.
Engines and dyno numbers are just like people,
some are more equal than others.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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pete wood
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| posted on July 2nd, 2010 at 09:28 PM |
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Race magazine has a great story on a mustang this month. It has 300hp less than it used to and is a fair bit faster. Just goes to show, the chassis
and the driver = > outright power.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on July 2nd, 2010 at 10:46 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
Race magazine has a great story on a mustang this month. It has 300hp less than it used to and is a fair bit faster. Just goes to show, the chassis
and the driver = > outright power.
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Its about having the right HP at the right rev range for the end use.
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bajachris88
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| posted on July 3rd, 2010 at 09:55 AM |
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When in doubt....
go Nitrous 
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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mactaylor
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| posted on July 3rd, 2010 at 05:20 PM |
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love the comparison of engines and people dave, so true!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
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Aussie Dubbin
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on July 5th, 2010 at 12:49 AM |
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Fullnoise, Hellbugged and Dangerous you guys talk so well about VW engines, i am in the process of building my first 'fast' bug (1968) that i want
to use on weekend track events. I do so much reading and just don't have the hands on experience that you guys have. I imagine you guys can find
various parts from years tinkering and put together a number of different engine combinations. Me i'm stuck with a bog stock 1600. I am currently
spending all my budget on pan upgrades (suspension and the sort) and converting to IRS. i know that their are so many different engine combos that
work well at different RPMs or with certian gearing/tyres combos but can you point me in the direction of a sound engine combo... just basic list so i
can do some more research. I reall like the idea of a 1916cc and maybe 120HP but that sounds too expensive, are the ways around getting a cheap engine
going that is not going to feel like i'm driving a tug boat??? Yes i know i can up the rockers, carbs and exhaust on the 1600 but i'm thinking save
that money and spend it on a 'fast' engine. I'm not looking for a daily either just one that revs strong (doesn't have to be high as tht costs too
much) and will be'fun' to drive.
Thnaks hope you can help
Aaron
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cnfabo
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| posted on July 5th, 2010 at 07:57 AM |
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aussie dubbin, read here...http://aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=68554 . hope that works....
ct, it would be great to see how the ida's change your engine..and good luck...
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on July 5th, 2010 at 08:46 PM |
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Thanks for the responses guys.
I've heard that the dyno may be a little different to how it was 3 years ago. That doesn't really matter. I want to take it back with the IDAs if I
can't determine the difference though my Calvin Kleins. Hopefully it won't take 3 years.
The ports in the heads are small. A standard intake gasket would almost do the the job, to give you an idea of their size. I've had them flow-benched
and they weren't too impressive and didn't make the numbers promised by the head porter. Damien, you did a top job on your heads. What sort of HP is
your engine cranking out? My heads could arrive on your doorstep with that kind of offer.
Thanks for the thoughts on the cam Dave. I think the K10 would've been a good choice. I loved revving the engine to 7000 with the 130. The K8 seems
pointless past 6500 in third with my combination. I might stroke the engine or something but I think the heads are the limiting factor. I might as
well see what I can do with the flow before the crank.
Aaron is right in my case. I'm a tinkerer. That's how I built my engine. I had a ball when my engine was making just 76HP at the wheels. In fact, I
had a ball when I took the oval I used to use as a daily driver to Eastern Creek. It had a stock 1600 and I was 30 seconds slower than what I lap the
track at now. My advice. Just get on the track. Your car will soon let you know where you should put your attention. Doing mods, or making
improvements and testing them at the track is half the fun. If you've got a tug boat, just lighten it and put some good tyres and bake pads on it and
have fun.
Thanks for the advice on the serpentine pulley. I was deluded thinking I could buy an aftermarket part and just bolt it on. Welded fan here I come.
I'll check the idler too.
I'm rambling. Time to go.
CT
esratrams
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colin
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on July 5th, 2010 at 08:54 PM |
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CT you need good heads,
bit the bullet!
Cheers Col
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 matberry
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| posted on July 5th, 2010 at 08:58 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
CT you need good heads,
bite the bullet!
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X2
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on July 5th, 2010 at 09:26 PM |
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x3
Pointless putting the IDA's on.............although it will be interesting to see the comparison 
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cnfabo
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| posted on July 5th, 2010 at 09:37 PM |
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i have the cb performance serpentine and the idler is crappy on them...so thats one brand ticked off for you ct...
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matberry
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| posted on July 5th, 2010 at 10:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
CT you need good heads,
bite the bullet!
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X2
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Should have added....send em up this way if your game, I'll look after you CT .
Heads and manifolds.
No such thing as 'no more hp' ... just harder to find.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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johny rotten
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| posted on July 5th, 2010 at 11:10 PM |
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just bolt the IDA's on with no other changes
you might be surprised
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on July 6th, 2010 at 08:34 AM |
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What venturis and throats do your
old and new carbs have CT?
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on July 6th, 2010 at 08:41 AM |
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you were running SHORT manifolds yeah?
but yeah let someone at those heads CT....Westi is close?........i can send you down our templates
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fullnoise
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| posted on July 6th, 2010 at 01:38 PM |
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Hi Dave,
The 44IDFs have 36 vents. The 48IDAs have 37 vents.
Hi Damien,
The current manifolds are short. I also have tall ones. In a back to back comparison I felt no decrease in torque with the short ones and the engine
seemed to rev better. The IDA manifolds are short too.
I'd love to borrow your templates and have a go. I've got a nice little air-powered rotary tool that is perfect for porting.
My valves are 40 x 35.5, would that suit the templates?
Regards CT
esratrams
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hellbugged
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| posted on July 6th, 2010 at 02:06 PM |
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yeah, would suit valves for sure...and you're right, a little practice on an old head and there is nor reason why you couldn't do it......we'll set
it up for Valla weekend if you want
have you got other vents?..........i'd like to see 38mm in there to get it up where that CAM would really be cooking........should work with the
closer ratios you have to be faster even if it drops a little down low
come on.......tinker tinker!
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on July 6th, 2010 at 05:00 PM |
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Awww man, if only I'd gotten to the dyno last week as I'd planned to get a comparison on mine with 38mm vents in the IDF's... I could've maybe
added to the discussion !!!
I'm with the other's CT - see what the IDA's give and just tinker away....
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
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'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on October 3rd, 2010 at 07:38 PM |
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Did you ever try the 48's CT ?
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on October 6th, 2010 at 12:18 PM |
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Engine coming out. Gearbox coming out. Exchange rate is good.
I just had a chat with Marty Staggs.....
Inspired by Dave Sidery's innovation and extra ponies.
Scheming, scheming.....
esratrams
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on October 6th, 2010 at 03:58 PM |
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Yep, now is the time to buy buy buy !!!!!
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on October 6th, 2010 at 04:58 PM |
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Crap CT - don't be implicating me in any of your scheming !!!
So... gonna spill what your thinking is ???
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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