| [ Total Views: 3181 | Total Replies: 30 | Thread Id: 88795 ] |
| Pages: 1 2 |
|
|
 turbo1600
Learner Dubber
Posts: 9
Threads: 5
Registered: February 17th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 17th, 2011 at 10:58 AM |
|
|
best bang per buck ?
hi, some one has asked me about doing a engine conversion on his kombi, he wants to keep the orig gearbox ,
what would be the most cost effective engine to use in the conversion . dont want to go efi.
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on February 17th, 2011 at 12:15 PM |
|
|
Why no fuel injection?
Thats one of the ultimate gains of an engine conversion, no more mongrel carbs.
Aus never got the carbed EJ engines, I don't think we even got the Single point TBI ones either, even the EJ16s in pov spec imps were multipoint.
EA81 and EA82 carbed engines were the most common but getting pretty old and hard to find a good one.
EA82 werent really a good engine, Subis first attempt at an OHC engine wasn't a winner.
Failing that an old carbed nissan or toyota engine maybe?
I've seen a Kombi with a 4A-FC Corolla engine before, awesome little engines but not real torquey for a heavy kombi though.
|
|
|
waveman1500
Custom Title Time!
Also rides a Honda
Posts: 1346
Threads: 13
Registered: December 17th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 17th, 2011 at 07:01 PM |
|
|
It's worth stepping up to EFI.
If you're not willing to, then as mentioned already the carbed Subaru engines are probably the best easy swap.
|
|
|
Bone
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 299
Threads: 43
Registered: August 9th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 17th, 2011 at 07:51 PM |
|
|
Subi ea81 is a basic, reliable carb engine.
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on February 17th, 2011 at 08:55 PM |
|
|
why bother putting a carbie suby motor in ??? what a waste of time and effort.
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on February 17th, 2011 at 09:27 PM |
|
|
While I do agree it seems a waste putting in a cooling system for what is just a vw engine with a water pump it does make sense $$ wise when you look
at how stupidly expensive type4 engines are.
EA81s are dirt cheap reliable engines if you're lucky enough to find a good one.
Yes it;s a prick of a job but.... the electrical for EFI is something that only has to be setup up once
|
|
|
johny rotten
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 366
Threads: 5
Registered: April 6th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 18th, 2011 at 06:34 AM |
|
|
Only a vw engine in a vw for me
The more of you guys that fit Subi engines to your vw's
the more valuable my air cooled vw cars become
air cooled is very cool and now days a little exotic
|
|
|
 matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on February 18th, 2011 at 07:58 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by johny rotten
Only a vw engine in a vw for me
The more of you guys that fit Subi engines to your vw's
the more valuable my air cooled vw cars become
air cooled is very cool and now days a little exotic
|
x2 
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
 |
|
|
turbo1600
Learner Dubber
Posts: 9
Threads: 5
Registered: February 17th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 18th, 2011 at 08:03 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
why bother putting a carbie suby motor in ??? what a waste of time and effort.
|
a waste of time and effort ???? i dont thinkl so... aftermarket efi ecu $$$$$ surge tank $$$$ electric fuel pump(s) $$$$$$ carby has NONE of that,
thats why i wanted a best bang per buck setuo..
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on February 18th, 2011 at 08:11 AM |
|
|
Hate to be a wake up call for you Johny but it's only of any value if it actually runs.
Sad reality is the days of quality engine parts are gone.
You know shit just got serious when even Jake Raby says a subi conversion makes $$ sense
Not like it's hard to put a VW engine back in anyway.
|
|
|
rocknrob
A.k.a.: Rob
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 844
Threads: 90
Registered: December 18th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Black
Mood: mystic
|
| posted on February 18th, 2011 at 08:20 AM |
|
|
if you want to go retro stick an aluminium rover V8 in...low tech and light...search for kevo
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on February 18th, 2011 at 02:39 PM |
|
|
actually, best bang for buck in the long run will be an EJ EFI motor. You can buy a low KM car/front cut complete, strip the bits you want (sell the
rest) have a workshop strip the loom down for you and it's as easy as a carbie conversion... and you never have to tune it again. 
You can go rover V8, but an EFI subaru will close to the power of a stock 3.5. To do a comparison, a stock EJ25 dohc is 170hp. A stock 253 holden is
about 190hp. The 3.5 is smaller. The EFI will also do better milage, suit the ratios in a stock kombi box and be quieter.
You don't need a surge tank for an atmo motor.
All of the carby subarus are getting very long in tooth. Will need rebuilds etc. If you don't mind doing a rebuild then go with a carbie motor. If
you want something easy, get Custom veedub's kit or Quickfit to strip your loom down.
besides, we're all here to help you. If you play your cards right someone off the forum may be able to come and help you. 
p.s. to the knockers, this is the non-vw engine forum. there are plenty of other places you can talk about aircooler on AVD.
|
|
|
ahoogah
Seriously Crusin Dubber
Posts: 135
Threads: 20
Registered: October 4th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 18th, 2011 at 04:39 PM |
|
|
I had a 79 T2,had Stan Pobjoy re-build the engine(2ltEFI)
$5500,went well for a couple of years,cam chewed out and was looking at a few?? to fix.
Now have a T3 that I dropped an EJ22 into, cost about $4500.
Have a spare EJ22 off ebay,$400.
When it's time for a rebuild,
THAT'S when I get bang for buck.
|
|
|
johny rotten
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 366
Threads: 5
Registered: April 6th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 18th, 2011 at 06:01 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ahoogah
I had a 79 T2,had Stan Pobjoy re-build the engine(2ltEFI)
$5500,went well for a couple of years,cam chewed out and was looking at a few?? to fix.
Just because that engine failed early doesn't mean that they are all built to that std or with that choice of cam /followers.
maybe he should have fixed it for you.......I don't know the full story.
But several EFI T2 2litre engines that I know of have run for an easy 200,000klm.
I don't rate Raby
He does that himself
|
|
|
|
 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on February 18th, 2011 at 06:05 PM |
|
|
Our bay bus has Subaru EJ22, and no surge tank required.
Replacement complete second hand engine with 3 months warranty is available for $880
|
|
|
ahoogah
Seriously Crusin Dubber
Posts: 135
Threads: 20
Registered: October 4th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 18th, 2011 at 07:01 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by johny rotten
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ahoogah
I had a 79 T2,had Stan Pobjoy re-build the engine(2ltEFI)
$5500,went well for a couple of years,cam chewed out and was looking at a few?? to fix.
Just because that engine failed early doesn't mean that they are all built to that std or with that choice of cam /followers.
maybe he should have fixed it for you.......I don't know the full story.
But several EFI T2 2litre engines that I know of have run for an easy 200,000klm.
I don't rate Raby
He does that himself
|
The engine was stock specs,when Stan pulled the crank,he had to linnish the journals. I was never unhappy with the rebuild,I know why it failed(clay
paddock/valve bounce), but not being an engine builders backside I limit myself to basic installations.
This is where "I" get best bang for buck!
Who's Raby???
|
|
|
|
guru
A.k.a.: Mr. Meaner
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 236
Threads: 54
Registered: April 23rd, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Toowoomba Qld.
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: ...Jolly calm at the moment, but that could change in half a millisecond
|
| posted on February 18th, 2011 at 09:36 PM |
|
|
My old bay panel had a v6 commodore motor and no surge tank. These motors are everywhere. Look on the footpath next door - there's probably one
there!
Went like a rocket and was quiet.
|
|
|
General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
Custom Title Time!
Use your head, don't abuse it!
Posts: 1036
Threads: 107
Registered: June 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Peaceful Finley, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: Not too bad. Thanks for asking!
|
| posted on February 26th, 2011 at 10:47 AM |
|
|
EA81 complete-ish conversion in need of serious TLC $600. Most of what I've put into it beyond that is just replacing missing / broken bits, crimp
connectors, carby cleaner, nuts and bolts, that sort of thing. I also hopefully have a manifold modified for Weber on the way. After Monday it becomes
more likely that Aussie post has "lost" it. Here's a tip. Registered post is a waste of money. If you register you can't insure. When it goes
missing they say "I don't know where it went missing. Too bad, so sad" and you are SOL.
Uh sorry. Back on topic. The EA81 setup i got is kind of like "baby's first conversion" in terms of complexity and parts sourcing. Doing EFI,
stripping looms etc. doesn't bother me, but I wanted something simple, and beyond that something which fit within the VSI guidelines for an owner
modification not requiring engineering certification. Location alone makes getting something certified extremely difficult and even more expensive, so
circumvention seemed the way to go.
I converted because type 4s are bloody expensive to fix, and aircooleds have a shorter life than water pumpers. Also the amount of money I have wasted
on "good" parts which are only useful as landfill I could have done the conversion anyway.
I do like the ACVW motor, and the EA81 is about as close as I can get without it actually being one too.
In the few months since I have got the conversion I have made it closer to getting my bay back on the road than in the last six years of fighting with
that bloody VW motor and the crap parts I kept getting.
While this particular motor has health issues which I have partially rectified by cleaning out the carb and giving it a tune I don't know how much
life it has left in it. Who knows how many km it has done or how it was treated. Turning the crank pulley to do the timing it feels like it still has
good compression, although to be honest I've avoided checking it properly on purpose. If a cylinder is low I'll want to rip it apart and start
replacing things. My current goal is to get it roadworthy, and this motor has been a massive shortcut, or more precisely it got me back on the main
road from the scenic route.
I would say in terms of engine longevity, maintenance and fuel economy a person is better off to go for a modern EFI motor. I just wanted something
that ran better than my type 4 and installed with the minimum of fuss. I got that.
I still have other issues to address with the rest of the vehicle and some finishing work on teh conversion but it has generally worked out well for
me.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on February 26th, 2011 at 11:02 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by turbo1600
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
why bother putting a carbie suby motor in ??? what a waste of time and effort.
|
a waste of time and effort ???? i dont thinkl so... aftermarket efi ecu $$$$$ surge tank $$$$ electric fuel pump(s) $$$$$$ carby has NONE of that,
thats why i wanted a best bang per buck setuo..
|
the carbied subie motor puts out bugger all HP or torque, so all that "conversion" effort to put in a crap motor.................why bother ?
I'm happy to see you do a subie conversion, but at least put in a decent (newer) motor combo in.
|
|
|
lou0060
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 568
Threads: 30
Registered: December 12th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 26th, 2011 at 09:38 PM |
|
|
horses for courses.
first of all what type of kombi are we talking about? we are all assuming bay window???
what is he going to do with it? daily driver, drag racer (as per Aaron Roberts), tow vehicle etc etc.
people change out vw motors for basically 2 reasons, 1: more power at lower price, 2: better reliability
talk to anyone at a vw show that has a subi conversion in their T3 and they say "best thing ever" so on that basis work out what the kombi is going
to be used for and what the owner wants to achieve and his budget and then determine what engine to use.
there is not much difference in cost wrt efi or carb, under $500 I would reckon, but the benefits as outlined above by others far exceeds the cost.
And use the subi ecu to save cost.
I've got aircooled vw's and watercoolled vw's (13 in total in the family) and when I decided to build a race car I went subi power.
So, ask some questions of the owner and find out what he is trying to achieve.
1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising 
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust 
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief 
1960 beetle - old school low & slow  |
|
|
Desert Moose
A.k.a.: Chris Hill
Veteran Volks Folk
Cut Cut Cut
Posts: 2098
Threads: 175
Registered: March 4th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth W.A.
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Black
Mood: I don't know if I'm indecisive
|
| posted on February 27th, 2011 at 09:43 AM |
|
|
It doesn't matter if you run a carb or you go EFI, you will still spend the same kind of money doing a conversion.
If you plan on pushing a radiator and all that water around with you make it worth the while. A stock EA motor will have a little less torque then the
motor in the car now. while the horse power may be more think of the weight of the heavier engine, radiator a water. EJ efi would be much better.
if you must use a carb you can have someone weld a mounting plate for a holley onto the manifold and you can have the block modified the take an ford
escort dizy.... this is all at a cost that bwill make it less powerful and unreliable.
The Rover V8 motor is very old these days or if you get the later motor they don't fit.... some people say they do but the water pump is sitting out
the back of the car and looks crap. you would be better off with a holden V6 but then its efi again.
I would say move with the times and learn how easy EFI realy is and go with it, or stay with what you have now
 |
|
|
matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on February 27th, 2011 at 09:49 AM |
|
|
Great advice above ^^^^ 
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on February 27th, 2011 at 10:46 AM |
|
|
There's a bloke on STF that's done a few conversions who was in the same boat, a customer allergic to technology and wanted carbs
He put an EJ22 in the bug with a pair of IDFs and I think either megajolt or EDIS for ignition.
The carbed EJs from other countries had dizzys on the back of the right head but good luck finding one.
That puppy flies with a dose of NOS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU7M1Qq1jZw
|
|
|
General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
Custom Title Time!
Use your head, don't abuse it!
Posts: 1036
Threads: 107
Registered: June 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Peaceful Finley, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: Not too bad. Thanks for asking!
|
| posted on February 28th, 2011 at 09:10 AM |
|
|
If seeing an engineering signatory is an option for sure go for EFI etc. I totally agree with all the pro later engine arguments.
in my case I look at it this way; if it all works properly and the cooling system holds up fine I have the basis for an upgrade already. in my case
too my bay is pretty rough and isn't what I'd call a restorer so crude but functional is fine by me.
AHH. Parcel postie drove straight past again. Right. That's something like 12 packages in four months. if you are reading this i think the packages
for a pair of kneecaps is a decent exchange 
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
|
|
|
surfbeetle
Casual Dubber
Posts: 30
Threads: 1
Registered: February 24th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 28th, 2011 at 06:47 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by johny rotten
Only a vw engine in a vw for me
The more of you guys that fit Subi engines to your vw's
the more valuable my air cooled vw cars become
air cooled is very cool and now days a little exotic
|
I thought this was the non vw engine conversion section, not the Samba. I have had VWs for 25 years, had several air cooled motors running a variety
of carbs from stock to weber progressives, kadron, and dual 48 IDAs. In my quest for more power, I'm looking for better performance and reliability
for my 200 horsepower on pump gas. I don't want to run another 12 to 1 compression motor with IDAs cause I want to just fire it up and go.
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on February 28th, 2011 at 08:41 PM |
|
|
Meh, trollers gonna troll no matter what forum you're on.
But you have pretty much the same reasoning we all do, hypo VW engines have the cool factor but sadly not much else.
They are engineering masterpieces for how primitive they are but everytime I drive a stock VW i think how the hell did I put up with this for long
I'd love a big type4 over the subi, just wish i had a spare kidney to sell 
|
|
|
General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
Custom Title Time!
Use your head, don't abuse it!
Posts: 1036
Threads: 107
Registered: June 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Peaceful Finley, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: Not too bad. Thanks for asking!
|
| posted on March 1st, 2011 at 09:05 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
Meh, trollers gonna troll no matter what forum you're on.
But you have pretty much the same reasoning we all do, hypo VW engines have the cool factor but sadly not much else.
They are engineering masterpieces for how primitive they are but everytime I drive a stock VW i think how the hell did I put up with this for long
I'd love a big type4 over the subi, just wish i had a spare kidney to sell
|
A kidney won't get you much these days where type 4 parts are concerned
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
|
|
|
Smiley
A.k.a.: Daniel Stephens
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2125
Threads: 110
Registered: October 29th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Yeppoon, Central Queensland
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Synchro'd
|
| posted on March 1st, 2011 at 05:21 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
I'd love a big type4 over the subi, just wish i had a spare kidney to sell
|
Do you only have one? Cause if you have two you can sell your spare
Smiley
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on March 1st, 2011 at 05:29 PM |
|
|
I only just survive on 2, I'd drink myself to death on only one
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on March 1st, 2011 at 07:37 PM |
|
|
Although someone absolutely stole a rebuilt type4 on ebay a few days ago
Rebuilt 2L with IDF webers, an unfitted fuel injection kit, sharpbuilt upright kit, new clutch and a custom exhaust all for $1650
All fitted in a rack and pinion Lbug with a new interior.
Why are all the bargains so far away
|
|
|
| Pages: 1 2 |
