| [ Total Views: 12143 | Total Replies: 95 | Thread Id: 91717 ] |
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 tweety
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 03:16 PM |
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EA81 conversion into trike type 3 auto
Ok, here we go. Was a little nervous this morning. In my mid fifties and had to extract my 1916. When this was done under warrantee two guys lifted
it over the tow bar. I was on my own but found a use for the hand trolley. For those novices like me I will go through some basic that most of you
gugys alreadu know so they can get a feel for how easy it is to do this conversion/or difficult. The trike design might cause some issues we have to
work through together and I welcome your advice even if it isnt taken up.
I havent taken possession of the EA81 as yet. Adapter ordered.
The Panther engine bar is held on with four bolts. In my case it also holds the roof on.
The tow bar drops down after releasing two bolts.
This shot shows the mounts etc
VW engine ready for its new owner to pick up shortly.
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seagull
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 08:16 PM |
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why is the left had part of the frame hit in ?
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mackaymanx
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 08:46 PM |
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Clearance for #3 cylinder
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
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tweety
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 09:51 PM |
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yes, think that's the case. it was like that when new. 95% of these are manual of course, dont know if that makes any fifference to the motor being
a bit more forward....likely not...maybe the builder welded the horn too far back?
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seagull
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 12:14 AM |
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I would use the tow bar for mounting the subaru engine mounts to mmmm is those two tabs / bits of flat bar that hold the tow bar up look only good for
supporting a garden trailer ? or does it bolt to the rear steel frame that goes around the motor ?
If not, I would get the brackets reinforced as welding a short piece flat bar down the pipe will just fatigue over time.
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tweety
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 10:22 AM |
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I've been concerned for some time about that tow bar. I've noticed some trikers make a full length tow bar to go right up the front. There is a
heavy duty lug under the fuel tank further up the front that commonly you attach a towing unit that slips under the front wheel to tow your trike
around on a cars towbar with trike rear wheels on the road however that would never be used for that purpose as the trike is an auto. Could secure the
tow bar from that point. I'd assume the bar would have to be made by a proper tow bar maker for it to be officially acceptable for all authorities.
A can of worms? Maybe I could just secure the engine mounts to that tow bar and together it could be strong enough as one unit?
I dont like cutting corners but I have towed a camper and this van some distances around tassy, Broken hill etc without an issue with the towbar. If I
was to make a new bar then where it is fixed to that flat plate you mention then that, I'd assume would need strengthening also and one thing you
strengthen it becomes a chain reaction doesnt it?
I was hoping the EA81 increase in torque etc would be not that much that the engine would remain cantilevered like the VW one and not require the
subie engine mounts.
That wrap around protection bar is thin alloy and already has 50 kgms extra weight on it for the roof. dont want to mess with that eh.
Welcoming the brainstorming Seagull. keep it up guys. I'm keen to do it correclty even if I am hesitant on the extra work.
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tweety
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 11:17 AM |
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Further to the above re: engine mounts and tow bar strength. Its too improtant to ignore try as I will.
After thinking about it...the tow bar is hinged at its end under the alloy box shaped alloy tank where two lugs protrude. That's why it was able to
hinge onto the ground.
About 60cm further forward is the large lug protruding for that hitch emntioned above. Now that trike weights have been abolished (and thats the
reason for so much alloy in the frame) I can go ahead after the engine is installed and get made up a heavy duty tow bar starting from the hitch point
attached to the hinge points and so on...on the current "flats" etc. if it was made with say 50mmx50mm steel or 50x75mm then with the proper
thickness it should be really strong. This would enable the engine mounts to be attached to it. That results in the horn mounts to remain
untouched.
what do you think? and what thickness steel? thicker the better? I am capable of making it myself. my only concern is officialdom!
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seagull
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 12:01 PM |
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If the wall thickness was 4mm you could keep with the set up and just strengthen the mounts.
for mounts you use land cruser rear leaf spring bushes, these fit into a piece of tube and you make a crush tube that is installed in the center.
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seagull
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 12:07 PM |
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http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=buggy+engine+mounts+round+bushes&um=1&a...
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tweety
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 03:15 PM |
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More pics.
Measured the tow bar tube thickness and be lucky if it was 2.5mm thick and is made of steel (magnet test)
This pic shows where the tow bar is hinged from under the tank
And here is the towing lug mentioned earlier.
Here are the rear most mounts for the tow bar unit. The ones nearest the rear of the trike are for the wrap around engine protectoing unit. The ones
one the gearbox side are the towbar ones. they are 5mm steel.
This shot depicts the shape of the tow bar.
And this one with the towbar lift shows the rear most shpae of it how it is angled upwards.
As all these compnents are of steel I'm wondering if I fabricate another frame that starts at that frotn lug then joins with the existing tow bar
right up to and a little beyond that rear most angle of the tow bar that that would strengthen the towbar no end and provide enough strength to attach
the Subaru engine mounts. I can do this part of the project and tack weld it then get my engineer that built my roof to weld it up professionally.
Way to go Neil?.
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seagull
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 09:30 PM |
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Yes
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tweety
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 10:07 PM |
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ok.
will wait now for my ea81 engine and adapter.thanls to all that have answered my questions. you are making it easy.
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ttriebler
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 11:08 AM |
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OK I am gonna buck the trend here. I don't get it.
Everyone was saying oh no don't get the EA81 it has barely any more power or torque that the original VW aircooled motor.
Now that tweety has got the EA81 it suddenly has gobs of torque and needs to use the engine mounts?
If the gearbox mount and 4 x connecting bolts was good enough for the VW aircooled motor why wouldn't it be good enough for the adaptor plate and
ea81 engine which has a touch more power and torque?
I reckon its massive overkill to be making massive engine mount bars under the length of the trike and just adds weight to the trike. It will end up
with a worse power to weight ratio than before.
If you absolutely MUST use the EA81 engine mounts as well as the gearbox mounts why not just extend the gearbox mounts towards the back of the car a
bit more so they also tie in to the ea81 engine mounts. That adds minimum extra weight and complexity. Even then I reckon its unnecessary.
Sorry if I sound like a killjoy - am I missing something critical?
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
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tweety
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 11:37 AM |
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Brainstoring is good and should be embraced.
It would certainly mean less work for me! There are big 2300ccVW engines out there with double the torque of my 1916.
But i accept also the concern by Seagull and others. a discussion/debate? why not?
A full length tow bar would be a good thing though regardless as the current one is only 2mm steel tube and past the "flats" there is no support at
all. Meaning 750 mm.
The suggestion that the towbar is capable of towing a garden trailer is correct. towball rating of 30kgms is not meant to be stretched to a small
caravan. My meaning is that if the bar is to be strengthened/replaced then to take on board the easy mod to add engine mounts is then a no brainer.
Dont you think?
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Joel
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 12:02 PM |
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Nearly all the EA81 conversions I've seen haven't had any sort of mounts unless it's in a car like a later kombi that needs one.
I guess that's one appeal to people, they are no different in weight to a 1600 so are fine to just swing off the gearbox like stock and mated to an
auto trans you're not gonna have destructive torque issues.
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MickH
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 12:13 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ttriebler
OK I am gonna buck the trend here. I don't get it.
Everyone was saying oh no don't get the EA81 it has barely any more power or torque that the original VW aircooled motor.
Now that tweety has got the EA81 it suddenly has gobs of torque and needs to use the engine mounts?
If the gearbox mount and 4 x connecting bolts was good enough for the VW aircooled motor why wouldn't it be good enough for the adaptor plate and
ea81 engine which has a touch more power and torque?
I reckon its massive overkill to be making massive engine mount bars under the length of the trike and just adds weight to the trike. It will end up
with a worse power to weight ratio than before.
If you absolutely MUST use the EA81 engine mounts as well as the gearbox mounts why not just extend the gearbox mounts towards the back of the car a
bit more so they also tie in to the ea81 engine mounts. That adds minimum extra weight and complexity. Even then I reckon its unnecessary.
Sorry if I sound like a killjoy - am I missing something critical?
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Good point re the mounts....but you might find the engineer would like the engine mounted the way it was supposed to be...a VW engine mounts off the
gearbox,a Subi doesnt. I know conversions done here require the engine being transplanted to mount the same way it was supposed to...we had to use
engine mounts on our engine to get it passed by an engineer...also the VW is mounted to the gearbox,they fit together, the Subi will be bolted to an
adapter plate.....
tssnq.com.au
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Joel
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 12:37 PM |
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Probably depends on the engineer, mine who was pretty fussy was happy with no engine mounts, just the kafer bar to strengthen the forks, and thats
with an EJ22 which is a shitload heavier.
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tweety
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 01:13 PM |
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http://www.nalingasteel.com.au/Nalinga_products_pipe%20and%20rhs.html
Front to rear towbar fabricated=
RHS 65x35x3mm weighs 4.2 kgms/metre about 4.5 metres max required that would include enough for mounts for the engine mounts =
19 kgms+ engine mounts weight
I thought that I could seek out the steel and take the original towbar to my local man that can bend it the same angle (up and inwards) same as the
rear part of the towbar, weld angle to it for the "flats" and centre mounts then I could do the rest up the front. thereby replacing the original
towbar altogether saving 7 kgms
could sell original towbar.
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tweety
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 03:42 PM |
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This pic is of the last mount of the tow bar
this one another angle
The towbar tube is 40-42mm OD. if I was to run 40mm square or round tube 4mm thick from the front inner ladder bars to almost the end of the towbar
and secure it as many points as possible and clamp it to the original towbar ??
The path it would take is where this peice of wood runs.
Then I have a strengthened tow bar and if the engineer wants a mount there is a place to mount it?
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ian.mezz
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 04:21 PM |
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that trike looks heavy. whats the Kgs on the rego papers.
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tweety
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 05:20 PM |
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fear not
aluminium is used extensively. monocoque tank, engine protection bar, frame above airbags, front forks,
steel items are ladder bars, engine mounts (horns) towbar. Has compliance plate and weighed 448 kgms new without accessories and is registered at
that weight.
Roof weighs 50kgms (includes 19 kgms for the Mazda 121 funtop electric operated sunroof)and is also passed by a Vicroads approved engineer (VASS) as
an accessory. Its detachable by two bolts at the rear and secured by two HT patio bolts and utility clamps and does not impede to be a risk to
pedestrians etc etc . The roof frame is made of 4mm alloy tube by my local engineer in Euroa.
My guess is it now weighs gross 560 kgms or so.
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tweety
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 05:33 PM |
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this is how they come new.
trikes can tow a lot more than motorcycles. they are also much faster around bends. you cant flip them, you cant therefore drop them and as one gets
older balance issues dont exist. there is no better toy in my view. but I am biased.
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waltermitty
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 05:42 PM |
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What about Diesel power?
Mitchell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-7QNvIxQTs
or this 500 HP hemi powered beast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su7gNQf8gK8&feature=related
23 windows ...8 too many!
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 helbus
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| posted on July 24th, 2011 at 05:43 PM |
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A trike looks like heaps of fun. Those that dont get it, probably wont get it. Especially if you have bad knee or leg, or balance, that would be the
way to be out and about as a confident rider. I haven't riden one, but I would love to.
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tweety
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| posted on July 25th, 2011 at 09:37 AM |
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Diesels? would love to use a diesel. I also drive a Hyundai i30 (180,000kms) turbo 1.6 diesel and it is no doubt the best car ever bought. heaps of
power 5.8 lit/100kms and trumps any hill in fifth!.
Problem is at 3200 rpm (100kph) it would be way past its torque curve and in diesel terms revving its little heart out. and the nightmare of the swap.
And its never been done in the past due to that previous weight limit mentioned.
I also run a Proton Jumbuck. Its a typical FWD set up. Such a traditional unit would be a good base to a trike but you might as well start from
scratch.
You're right helbus, a good percentage of motorcyclists dont "get" trikes. We are often shunned. It's their problem though. Most have never
ridden one. I can say though, to take corners in safety far quicker than a bike can is a thrill. they are scraping their pegs and braking when the
triker is applying more throttle. But coming onto the straight is another thing! they catch up easily.
Those that have built their own trikes will tell you there is a lot of work there.
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tweety
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| posted on August 14th, 2011 at 06:44 PM |
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Progress stalled a while as I broke my leg 2 weeks ago.
Now the pain has gone and am able to wheelchair around the shed and get some progress happening.
John Sherman reassured me before I got delivery of the engine that the adapter will make more sense then...and it did. So easy to instal it after
taking off the small Subaru bell housing but you have to finely locate the adapter using a steel dowel measuring tool so the outer rear seal is even
all around it.
The more I work on this EA81 the more I like it (but then I have ridden it yet!). I've commenced taking off all the clutter...the vacuum tubes
(rubber and steel) are numerous, some already blocked off etc. Some can be taken off in clusters. I think the carbon canister has to remain but will
be a further away from the engine for appearances.
The huga and heavy alternator/A/C comprssor mounts has been halved!! got the angle grinder out on that and a coat of black heat proof paint. It now
will only have to secure the alternator.
The mechanic owner of the engine assured me the deas were recoed when the block was done about 80,000kms ago. The guy is about 65 years old and his
word is gold I reckon. He even installed the new dizzy and weber without charge. Nice guy.
A full day tomorrow will see the rest of the leaning of the engine and take off the clutter RH side. This is beginning to be enjoyable. By the way,
for ease of access from the rear of the trike I've rotated the oil filler tube and dip stick...seemed to go ok.
this below is that huge mount that was cut after pic taken.
looking better.
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tweety
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| posted on August 15th, 2011 at 09:23 PM |
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lot of work done..
have to order 3 seals, w/pump hose small and fanbelt. then its going together.
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pete wood
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| posted on August 16th, 2011 at 08:24 AM |
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is that a new rear main seal? if not, it's worth replacing it before you put it in the car.
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tweety
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| posted on August 16th, 2011 at 10:04 AM |
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No it isnt new. am going to order both those seals today. Also have new torque converter seal to put in. am waiting on a seal removing tool I ordered
on ebay 3 weeks ago....
thanks pete
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tweety
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| posted on August 18th, 2011 at 08:07 PM |
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got the seal removal tool in the post. Easy as...
New seal in place
Valve cover breathers into intake
breathing tubes.
auto kick down switch
throttle cable mount home made
engine on wheels ready for installation after rear main seals arrive. extendable air intake to enable cool air from around radiator that (might) go
above transaxle.
Pretty simple stuff but there might be other novices like me out there that will benefit...
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