| [ Total Views: 2009 | Total Replies: 33 | Thread Id: 93171 ] |
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 johnl
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| posted on October 13th, 2011 at 04:39 PM |
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New Engine - How much and is it worth it?
Posted on here about 2 months ago about trouble with the wifes 68 Beetle. Mechanic had heaps of problems "fixing" the car with a lot of replacement
parts. Long story short - wife has said that it was running very rough. Took it to the mechanic today and he advised a new engine. Said it would cost
about $6,800.
Reckons the problem is internal and it would cost too much to fix and not worth it. Said that the engine had been somewhat dodgly done in the first
place.
Now my questions are:
What would a mechanic normally charge for this kind of job?
Can you get a new engine from the US?
Is it worth getting a reconditioned one and have a mechanic put it in?
A VW beetle that runs rough but is in good nick body wise, what would it be worth?
I guess the first thing would be to get another opinion. Some will advise to fit an engine myself. Not an option as I will not be succesful and the
dog does need the kicking around the yard at the moment.
Any advice would be welcomed.
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johnl
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| posted on October 13th, 2011 at 04:42 PM |
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Here is the thread started a while ago when the engine was running rough. I live on the Central Coast by the way.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91765&page=2#pid854523
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 Yogie
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| posted on October 13th, 2011 at 04:59 PM |
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I would get a 2nd opinion if I were you. It sounds like he is just trying to make some nice money from you as it would want to be a pretty bloody
good engine for that money. We paid something in the region of 3-4k for a brand new mexican 1600 engine.
Yogie.
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johnl
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| posted on October 13th, 2011 at 06:55 PM |
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How long ago and where from Yogie? What do you think would be a decent price to get it fitted? Not being a car tinkerer and it being such an old car,
I am wondering if it is even worth getting another engine or just sell it as is.
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vassy66T1
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| posted on October 13th, 2011 at 07:03 PM |
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Honestly, if it is a well built engine it will be worth that money.
What are the specs? Stock? New what?
An imported engine is like a run on the roulette table IMHO
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Joel
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| posted on October 13th, 2011 at 07:11 PM |
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Jesus 
Its almost half that at $3500 for one of those mexican crate engines and atleast everything is brand new in them.
Mick Motors swears by them, of the 100s he's sold only one has had a warranty claim when I was talking Mick a few weeks back.
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Yogie
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| posted on October 13th, 2011 at 07:41 PM |
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I got mine from Custom Off road in Stafford but Mick motors does them as well. I would be surprised if it cost more than a couple of hundred dollars
to have it fitted. If you posted a request on here, you may also find 1 or 2 people that will come around and help/show you how to fit it as they are
not that hard.
Good luck.
Yogie
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silver
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| posted on October 13th, 2011 at 08:12 PM |
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I have a good second hand 1600 engine you can have for $550
Keeping it real !
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Bizarre
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| posted on October 13th, 2011 at 08:19 PM |
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Yep - the mexi motors are good value
But you still need to add for the R&R to get it in
There are MANY questions and where do you stop
Is that for a clutch and exhaust as well??
If you know something/someone/whatever - then a good 2nd hand is a good option
Tumbi Umbi is not far to go to pick up a 2nd hand one - and personally, I would buy something from Silver
he may not be pretty - but trust worthy
Futue te ipsum!!!
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jolly roger
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| posted on October 14th, 2011 at 06:13 AM |
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#! Message No Longer Available !#
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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johnl
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| posted on October 14th, 2011 at 06:38 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by silver
I have a good second hand 1600 engine you can have for $550
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Cheers, I sent you a PM.
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johnl
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| posted on October 14th, 2011 at 06:42 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Yogie
I got mine from Custom Off road in Stafford but Mick motors does them as well. I would be surprised if it cost more than a couple of hundred dollars
to have it fitted. If you posted a request on here, you may also find 1 or 2 people that will come around and help/show you how to fit it as they are
not that hard.
Good luck.
Yogie
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I do have a mate that is a guru on cars but hate to ask him to help me out as he is fairly busy. What would be a conservative time frame to remove and
replace an engine? 4 hours, 8 hours????
Cheers,
John
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johnl
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| posted on October 14th, 2011 at 07:48 AM |
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Mechanic tells me it is for the manifold, carby, etc, etc the whole lot. Sayd he could fit one that I supply for a couple of hundred.
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Joel
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| posted on October 14th, 2011 at 09:32 AM |
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The only problem you will have with a crate engine is they are all twinport doghouse engines and it sounds like your current engine is a 1500 single
port with 1600 jugs in it.
All that means is you'll have to source a doghouse fan shroud and fan, twin port cylinder tins and a twin port manifold and muffler.
The single port stuff is all different.
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psimitar
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| posted on October 15th, 2011 at 08:13 AM |
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3-4K. Get it imported from the UK. You can get a a recon engine for around 500pounds and with shipping etc it won't come to much more than $2k. Look
into that option if it truely is the bottom end thats a goner.
How many K's has it done? If I was in the country I'd put an engine together for ya for under $1700, so long as I found the case, crank, rods and
heads were OK. Takes no more than 8 hours to put a VW boxer engine together. So 6k for a standard VW engine is a pure rip off. Garages love to rip off
the un-informed. My wife takes the car to the garage and a list as long as my arm is wrong with it. I shoot em down with my mechanical knowledge and
they're red faced and back pedalling quicker than warp speed.
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
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1916baja
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| posted on October 15th, 2011 at 04:13 PM |
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I think the world record for removing and re fitting a beetle engine is no more than a few minutes! Thats with a team of experts though.... Although
it is much easier with a baja as the rear end is cut off but I have had my engine out, clutch changed and back in in under 45 mins by myself. Not
rushing either. I'm sure if you got an engine to put in someone on here that is close to you would gladly give you a hand.... And probably do a
better job than the local mechanic. Vw drivers who have pulled their engines out half a million times generally know the easiest and better ways to do
it, unlike a general mechanic who may have done a couple in his lifetime. I certainly wouldn't even think of getting a general mechanic with little
vw experience build me an engine. Not saying your mechanic doesn't know what they are doing, I just think although vws are simple, they are a bit of
a specialised field.
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beetleboyjeff
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| posted on October 15th, 2011 at 06:35 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1916baja
I think the world record for removing and re fitting a beetle engine is no more than a few minutes!
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From memory, it is 2 blokes who took 3 mins 35 secs at one of the old Bug In's at the old Orange County International Raceway in the late 70's.
The engine pulling competition involved 2 blokes behind a line 14 foot behind the car. On 'go', they raced over to the car, jacked it up and put
stands under it, removed the engine and dragged it over the line (on the trolley jack), dragged it back to the car, re-fitted it, lowered the car,
started it, and reversed back over the line.
These 2 blokes were dominating the competition (not surprising hey), so they changed the rules to a 1 man engine pull. I believe one of these 2 blokes
got it down to 7 mins and 7 secs on his own.
Sort of means 'hmmm, I got 10 mins, might change engines'. Well, sort of.
I certainly agree that I wouldn't just get any mechanic to re-build a VW engine - I reckon I could re-build one to run, but the blokes that do it all
the time seem to know just soooo many little tricks and things to check to make them live a long time, it would be just false economy.
Definately get someone very familiar with building VW engines to do it.
From your ole' mate Jeff
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Joel
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| posted on October 15th, 2011 at 07:14 PM |
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Muller and his boys did it on Guinness world records a couple of years ago in 1min 4secs but i dont think a few things were tightened to spec 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKF6dcKjLJo
up till that it was 1min 37sec.
My personal best is dropping the engine out on my own in 3:35secs just with the bumper and apron off.
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psimitar
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| posted on October 15th, 2011 at 08:47 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by beetleboyjeff
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1916baja
I think the world record for removing and re fitting a beetle engine is no more than a few minutes!
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From memory, it is 2 blokes who took 3 mins 35 secs at one of the old Bug In's at the old Orange County International Raceway in the late 70's.
The engine pulling competition involved 2 blokes behind a line 14 foot behind the car. On 'go', they raced over to the car, jacked it up and put
stands under it, removed the engine and dragged it over the line (on the trolley jack), dragged it back to the car, re-fitted it, lowered the car,
started it, and reversed back over the line.
These 2 blokes were dominating the competition (not surprising hey), so they changed the rules to a 1 man engine pull. I believe one of these 2 blokes
got it down to 7 mins and 7 secs on his own.
Sort of means 'hmmm, I got 10 mins, might change engines'. Well, sort of.
I certainly agree that I wouldn't just get any mechanic to re-build a VW engine - I reckon I could re-build one to run, but the blokes that do it all
the time seem to know just soooo many little tricks and things to check to make them live a long time, it would be just false economy.
Definately get someone very familiar with building VW engines to do it.
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By following the Haynes workshop manual, Gregory's ain't so good, any competent DIY mechanic can put a VW engine together and if the steps are
properly followed the engine will last just as long. It's attention to detail that makes an engine last and be leak free for many years. This is why
some recon companies have engines that don't fair so well as they put them together to quickly, well and maybe use inferior parts 
Took me a month or so to get hold of the better quality parts and a week for the heads and crank to be reconned. Then it took me 3 evenings of a few
hours each to put the engine back together.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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h
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| posted on October 15th, 2011 at 11:30 PM |
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for starters get a VW mecknic not a general lee who has dealt with 4 vws in his meknic life
2ndly I'd like to see how the 6.8k figure arose n his methodology in getting to the number
sounds like he needs a family holiday at your expense
fair dinkum what a rip off
maybe best to contact n join an official VW club not a virtual 'club'
n sus out who to see n part the reddys too
good luck
n motor removal in about 30mins taking your time over a cuppa n a biscuit 
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h
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| posted on October 15th, 2011 at 11:35 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vassy66T1
An imported engine is like a run on the roulette table IMHO
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agreed totally 
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psimitar
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| posted on October 16th, 2011 at 02:24 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by h
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vassy66T1
An imported engine is like a run on the roulette table IMHO
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agreed totally
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Not necessarily if you've done your homework. I've been dealing with VW Heritage for a few years now and the one part I did have trouble with was
quickly replaced.
People have bought performance engines from America without too much troubles.
There is risk in everything and not much different to the un-informed being taken for a ride by a garage. My wife's grandma is regularly screwed over
by her garage but I can't say anything as she has been going there for years and trusts them. She paid nearly $10k for them to fix the cyl head on
her VW panel van converted to a camper. Even if a cylinder was cracked it wouldn't cost that much.
Too many people are just after the money and an easy ride these days 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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Euro_67
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| posted on October 16th, 2011 at 09:29 AM |
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This workshop does sound dodgy, and the $6,800 figure a little arbitrary..........
What is also interesting, is later John said the mechanic identified the issue as carby, manifold, etc...........
Typically these items are reused on a short motor rebuild, so John you need to clarify what you get for your $6,800.
Please dont flame me for my next observation, as I am not defending this particular workshop.
The scene here is pretty good, most workshops are within a few dollars of each other per hour for labour.
Remember to rebuild an engine you have to consider the mechanic must charge by the hour for every minute spent.....this is how all workshops
survive.
How long would it take to remove the engine, dismantle, assess worn parts, send stuff out for machining, etc..... the list goes on.
Then you have to rebuild the engine, re-install it, tune & test.
The customer will expect a warranty, so any effort there will need to be included in the initial price as a risk contingency.
From a pure Project management perspective with billable hours as the source of income, costs can escalate quickly.
I would hate for john to get an unrealistic expectation, based on anecdotal advice at best.
So far the best offer or advice has been Silvers offer of a good used 1600TP for $500.00.
John,
get as many qualified opinions as possible. Have the engine assessed by VW specialist workshops.
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beetleboyjeff
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| posted on October 16th, 2011 at 09:52 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Euro_67
This workshop does sound dodgy, and the $6,800 figure a little arbitrary..........
What is also interesting, is later John said the mechanic identified the issue as carby, manifold, etc...........
Typically these items are reused on a short motor rebuild, so John you need to clarify what you get for your $6,800.
Please dont flame me for my next observation, as I am not defending this particular workshop.
The scene here is pretty good, most workshops are within a few dollars of each other per hour for labour.
Remember to rebuild an engine you have to consider the mechanic must charge by the hour for every minute spent.....this is how all workshops
survive.
How long would it take to remove the engine, dismantle, assess worn parts, send stuff out for machining, etc..... the list goes on.
Then you have to rebuild the engine, re-install it, tune & test.
The customer will expect a warranty, so any effort there will need to be included in the initial price as a risk contingency.
From a pure Project management perspective with billable hours as the source of income, costs can escalate quickly.
I would hate for john to get an unrealistic expectation, based on anecdotal advice at best.
So far the best offer or advice has been Silvers offer of a good used 1600TP for $500.00.
John,
get as many qualified opinions as possible. Have the engine assessed by VW specialist workshops.
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All damn good advice.
From your ole' mate Jeff
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johnl
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| posted on October 17th, 2011 at 06:40 AM |
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Thanks for all the feedback. I took the car to a VW repairer on Saturday. The car was running like a horse with a busted leg. Missing terribly with
the odd back fire when put under strain. The odd bit of flames coming out the exhaust too as the wife was behind in my car.
The guy at the VW place was telling me that they have rigged up a test bed and that they have all manner of spare parts that they use for testing so
they use those parts to ascertain IF that part is at fault before buying a new one and fitting it and charging the customer.
The guy at the VW place said he did get a call from the first mechanic and was asked about rebuilidng the engine/engine replacement. He told the
mechanic that it could be up to $5k depending on the type of engine, etc, etc. So I guess that is where he got his price from. ANYWAYS - the car is
with a VW mechanic and they should get back to me today or tomorrow. I am guessing that it probably won't need a new engine but we shall see.
I would happily take it to the VW speialist all the time but it is a bit far away from my place and the only option is to take it there on a
Saturday...picking it up during the week is a hassle but I guess better than the alternative.
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1303Steve
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| posted on October 17th, 2011 at 06:55 AM |
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Hi
The worst thing that you can do is reuse a 1500 crank case, they are very brittle and prone to head studs pulling.
I think Fermans in Peakhurst sell the crate engines as well.
99-105 Boundary Road, Peakhurst, Sydney, NSW 2210
9533 2722 Fax:9153 6033
info@hasmot.com
Steve
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Marilyn71
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| posted on October 17th, 2011 at 09:02 AM |
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Hi
I'm still very much a novice so I dont have a heap of knowledge but I've just had my engine rebuilt due to poor compression in 3rd cylinder. My
mechanic used to work up at Stokers Siding VW. He rebuilt the motor from a single port 1500 with new heads pistons and cylinders, bearings, line
boring and upgrded the tin ware for better cooling for abit under $3000 fully installed to now having a twin port 1600. Plus he threw in a new dizzy
in exchange for my old LOUD exhaust. I'm lucky to have found a very experienced and honest VW mechanic. He always time to answer questions and and
give advice.
Mind you Steve about the 1500 crank case, Yikes dont scare me! The car runs really strong can sit on 110 and pulls well up hills for a fairly standard
motor.
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t_tuffnut
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| posted on October 17th, 2011 at 03:54 PM |
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Did you try VW Performance in West Gosford? I recently had my 1600 tp built there and the guys busted a gut to get it done on time and get all the
little niggly problems sorted so I could drive it to my wedding. Plus, the whole thing was considerably cheaper than the prices you have been quoted
so far from other mechanics.
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johnl
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| posted on October 18th, 2011 at 01:37 PM |
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tuffnut, that is where it is right now. Looks like the engine does not need a replacement. They have cleaned up the workshop too. Looks a whole lot
better since the new guy took it over.
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t_tuffnut
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| posted on October 18th, 2011 at 03:28 PM |
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Yeah, Liong has made some changes and he has some good ideas on how to get the business going. He and James are great and the engine they built me is
fantastic!
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