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 TorxKiwi
A.k.a.: Dean Newell
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| posted on December 11th, 2011 at 05:50 PM |
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Electrical's ..... suck
I'm working through the list of jobs on 'Sonny' and now have several partially completed while I await the arrival of parts. So I did the next
best thing and moved onto the next job, fit new distributor.
I went with a Bosch style distributor with vacuum advance, replacing one without the vacuum advance. Carefully following the 'How To Keep Your VW
Alive" and Bentley guides I did the alignments; pulley TDC with crankcase split, rotor with cylinder and also did the 'pencil' test to be sure. I
then removed the old distributor. I also checked the slot in the distributor drive all was as it should be.
In fitting the new dizzy I could only get it seated properly with the rotor at about the '2 o'clock' mark. Have I stuffed something up? I'm not
willing to try and fire it up until I at least get a second opinion!!
Seeing as I was stuck on that job I did the usual thing ... and moved onto the next job. Oil pressure light and reversing light, who would have
though they would be linked. Previous owner had cut both of them, go figure. Successfully traced the oils pressure light wiring and have that
reconnected and working, still struggling with the reversing lights. So ... on to the next job.
Indicators work on hazard light, do not work as indicators. I'm figuring its a switch issue, not a relay? So ... on to the next job.
Tail lights work on low beam and go off on hight beam. No idea, where do I start?
There's not a lot of room under a Beetle for a big bloke, need to install a hoist 
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"Ownership of a Beetle is not a destination it is a journey." |
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cb john
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on December 11th, 2011 at 07:13 PM |
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1.If TDC is correctly set, whereever the rotor points, there is your No.1 cylinder, just change HT cables..
2.Reverse switch is on the nosecone of the gearbox.It should have no relationship with the oil pressure warning light,
check the wiring and the fuse.
3.if the hazard indicators work and indicators do not, check, if the wire termination on the light switch is correct.
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NewBug
Learner Dubber
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| posted on December 11th, 2011 at 07:57 PM |
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I think you have the wrong cylinder at TDC. Ensure Cylinder 1 is at TDC, sounds to me the number 2 cylinder is at TDC.
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zocstar
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| posted on December 11th, 2011 at 08:03 PM |
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And it is on compression stroke.
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pod
A.k.a.: paul mrvw061
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
i`ve got to finish this thing one day
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| posted on December 11th, 2011 at 08:15 PM |
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i,m with CB john on no.1,and reverse lights usually power up from the coil,well they do in my bus and i dont think VW would have changed it that much
in a bug
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
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| posted on December 11th, 2011 at 09:14 PM |
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If You used a pencil to find the TDC on number one then that is where it is..
just put the HT lead for number one there.. 1432..
that rotor looks extremely large or is it just the camera..???
if its all correct then Your engine should fire...
if its not right.. then no go or misfire...
if You have reverse lights then the switch should be on the nose of the gearbox...
if it came with reverse lights..
fuse was in the engine bay I believe..??
seems your blinker switch isn't working correctly or a wire is disconnected...
all the blinker wires go to the hazard light switch...
so, they all connected there ok...
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
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| posted on December 11th, 2011 at 09:23 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by NewBug
I think you have the wrong cylinder at TDC. Ensure Cylinder 1 is at TDC, sounds to me the number 2 cylinder is at TDC.
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Won't be #2 as the TDC wont line up on the pulley, only 1 and 3 do.
It all depends how the person who installed the distributor drive positioned it.
The earlier bugs are at 12:00 or 90degrees to the case joint at #1 TDC (small segment to pulley if I remember rightly) but later twin port engines
need to be more about 2:00 so the condenser cleared the fuel pump.
But where ever it ends up as long as the #1 is at TDC and the rotor will line up with #1 notch in the dissy you need to static time it at 7.5btdc from
there.
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Uber Kafer
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on December 22nd, 2011 at 02:19 PM |
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as for general wiring issues on vee dubs, if you are having problems that are intermittent / weird / doing your head in, I strongly recommend several
steps.
Get a decent crimping tool for insulated crimp lugs, they are the ones colour coded red for small wires ( most of the 12 volt vee dub wires ), blue
for mid sized wires ( most of the 6 volt vee dub wires ), and yellow for battery, alternator, generator sized wire. Dont get the crimp tool that
pierces or penetrates the insulated lug, get the one that compresses it into a hex shape or rounded shape. Disconnect the battery and check EVERY
wire, and re-lug if the original lug is looking loose, corroded or skanky in any way.
Next step, check the fuse box to see if the spring loaded tabs at each end of the fuse have lost their mojo and arent doing the spring-tension-thing
to hold the fuse in. Replace any fuses that look like the tab has worn a massive groove in the ends. Check the fuse size against the correct wiring
diagram.
Next, check every earth/chassis connection, unscrew it, clean it and re-tighten. That includes the large strap between the gearbox nose and the left
gearbox horn.
Hopefully that work will fix some or all of your electrical problems.
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psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
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| posted on December 29th, 2011 at 12:33 AM |
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To triple check #1 is at TDC you can take the rocker cover off and check that both valves for #1 are shut.
As for wiring the reverse light is powered for the coil positive. As for connectors buy the proper brass uninsulated and learn to crimp them properly.
As an electrical engineer I can tell you that the insulated ones are pretty gay as the ali connector doesn't indent in the middle so they never
properly grip the wire. Once you've used a proper uninsulted connector you'll see what I mean.
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
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TorxKiwi
A.k.a.: Dean Newell
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| posted on December 29th, 2011 at 04:42 AM |
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Thanks for the advice all. I now have a suitable excuse to go tool shopping ....... Again
"Ownership of a Beetle is not a destination it is a journey." |
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vwo60
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| posted on December 29th, 2011 at 06:02 AM |
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Do not buy the run of the mill crimping tool like supercheap and autobarn pedal, invest in a rachet type as this crimps the whole lenght of the wire
in the lug.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TH1829&form=CAT2&SUBCATID...
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Uber Kafer
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| posted on December 29th, 2011 at 10:44 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
To triple check #1 is at TDC you can take the rocker cover off and check that both valves for #1 are shut.
As for wiring the reverse light is powered for the coil positive. As for connectors buy the proper brass uninsulated and learn to crimp them properly.
As an electrical engineer I can tell you that the insulated ones are pretty gay as the ali connector doesn't indent in the middle so they never
properly grip the wire. Once you've used a proper uninsulted connector you'll see what I mean.
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As an electrical engineer can you please explain why if insulated crimps are so 'gay' why does all of industry specify them for ALL electrical
connections up to 6mm wire size? Yes, the brass uninsulated lugs are a direct replacement but insulated crimps with the correct crimper are an option
that is accessible to most people, and very reliable.
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psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
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| posted on December 29th, 2011 at 11:23 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Uber Kafer
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
To triple check #1 is at TDC you can take the rocker cover off and check that both valves for #1 are shut.
As for wiring the reverse light is powered for the coil positive. As for connectors buy the proper brass uninsulated and learn to crimp them properly.
As an electrical engineer I can tell you that the insulated ones are pretty gay as the ali connector doesn't indent in the middle so they never
properly grip the wire. Once you've used a proper uninsulted connector you'll see what I mean.
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As an electrical engineer can you please explain why if insulated crimps are so 'gay' why does all of industry specify them for ALL electrical
connections up to 6mm wire size? Yes, the brass uninsulated lugs are a direct replacement but insulated crimps with the correct crimper are an option
that is accessible to most people, and very reliable.
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Hmm, without a pic it;s hard to explain but with either connector you have a gap at which the terminal wraps around the wire and is shown as a split
in the connector. Now with an uninsulated connector this split gets folded inwards and causes the connector to grip the wire in a much better
mechanical fashion than the insulated connector as this just crushes on the circumference of the connector. Now with a true 6 point crimper this will
correctly compress the connector around the wire but your cheap 2 jaw crimper will only compressor on the top and bottom and beleive me that over time
this is a poor joint. These can fail within months if used frequently as the wire is not clamped at a sufficient pressure to ensure longeviety.
Uninsulated connectors require the installer to crimp the connector into the wire and hence gives a far greater clamping pressure. I have tried
insulated, even with central compression, and they are far inferior to a properly seated uninsulated connector.
For most they seem fine bt believe me, over time they are crap compared to uninsulated. A 50 yr old uninsulated crimp connection can still hold up a
decent fight compared to a 3month old insulated crimp.
These modern connections are designed for lazy people and a quick fix. Schol connectors were popular in the 90 for lazy people as you could break into
a wire without cutting it yet now these are banned as a function connection in the UK and most other European countries.
Oh and don't forget that a majority of standards are passed by politicians and other technically twatish people with no actual engineering capability
whatsoever. Ease over writes correctness.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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Uber Kafer
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| posted on December 29th, 2011 at 11:55 AM |
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Lengthy answer....impressive... but still doesnt answer my question.
If insulated crimp lugs, crimped with the proper ratcheting crimper, are so 'gay' why are they specified by everyone in industry?
Are you telling me that everyone I have worked for in the onshore and offshore Oil & Gas Industry, Power/Energy Generation and Transmission
industry, etc, for the last 30 years, in Australia and overseas, has got it wrong ??
I never mentioned standards, but I am talking about client/project specifications based on 'best practice' and reliability. Surely Chevron, Shell,
Woodside, et al, havent got it horribly wrong with the manner in which they install and maintain there complex Process Control Systems, Emergency Shut
Down systems, Fire Detection systems... ???
I dont want this to turn into a pi$$ing contest but lets try and give VW enthusiasts some good practical advice to help solve common 'old car'
problems using readily available tools and replacement parts.
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TorxKiwi
A.k.a.: Dean Newell
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| posted on December 29th, 2011 at 12:09 PM |
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Well that was fun
How about you all come over, have a crimping contest and get my lights working for me? I'll provide the beer and referee the pi##ing competition.
The car isn't going anywhere at the moment as it's awaiting brake parts from Classic Veedub. It could go, it just wouldn't stop.
"Ownership of a Beetle is not a destination it is a journey." |
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AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
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| posted on December 29th, 2011 at 12:41 PM |
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If you're looking for sensible then Aussieveedubbers is not for you.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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TorxKiwi
A.k.a.: Dean Newell
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| posted on December 29th, 2011 at 01:02 PM |
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Sensible is boring ....... the beer for lighting offer stands.
"Ownership of a Beetle is not a destination it is a journey." |
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 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
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| posted on December 29th, 2011 at 04:24 PM |
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Are the blinker and hazard operated off separate relays?
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AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
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| posted on December 29th, 2011 at 04:25 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Are the blinker and hazard operated off separate relays?
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No
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
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| posted on December 30th, 2011 at 04:15 AM |
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If I was nearby I would come and help.
As for the insulated, each to there own. I prefer the uninsulated and if i had the crimper for bootlace connectors then they work great too but the
insulated are crap IMO.
Engineers dont make the standards they just offer advice to politicians and the politician uses the easiest method for pure cant be arsed-ness but
thats another issue entirely 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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TorxKiwi
A.k.a.: Dean Newell
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| posted on January 1st, 2012 at 07:22 PM |
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The plot thickens.....
Ok. So I thought I'd have a decent crack at the wiring issue this afternoon and all I succeeded in doing was opening another can of worms and
becoming increasingly confused.
Attached is a sample of wiring that I found behind the dash. There seem to be an awful lot of loose ends in the system and clearly some wires have
shorted in the past and rather than resolve and remove the PO has just left the molten mess there. Anyway, can anyone help me out with the connections
on the back of a '75 L Bug rocker style light switch.
Photos attached.....
Red to Fuse #2
Red/Grey to Speedometer Light
Black/Yellow to Fuse 10
Black/White to relay
I have two blank terminals, should they be connected, if so what to? I'd hazard a guess that this has something to do with my park lights not working
... and yes Black/White with exposed copper will be replaced.
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"Ownership of a Beetle is not a destination it is a journey." |
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psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
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| posted on January 2nd, 2012 at 04:21 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar if i had the crimper for bootlace connectors
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Is that like an aglet? I thought that we were talking about electrical connections.
| Quote: | Engineers dont make
the standards they just offer advice to politicians and the politician uses the easiest method for pure cant be arsed-ness but thats another issue
entirely
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Politicians have nothing at all to do at all with Australian Standards. When AS3000 is updated it is all done by engineers.
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And you just had to respond to be right.
As for the OP, give us a list of what's playin up and we'll see if we can work thro it.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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TorxKiwi
A.k.a.: Dean Newell
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| posted on January 2nd, 2012 at 04:31 AM |
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Current situation is -
1. Headlight switch to first position, nothing happens, no park lights, no tail lights, no license plate light.
2. Headlight switch to second position. Headlights on low beam, tail lights on, license plate light on.
3. Flick lights to high beam, headlights on high beam, dash high beam indicator on, tail lights off, license plate light off.
"Ownership of a Beetle is not a destination it is a journey." |
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AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
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| posted on January 2nd, 2012 at 08:11 AM |
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Headlight switch connections.
30 Red (Battery + from fuse box) Live always
x Black/Yellow (Ignition switch +) Live with ignition on
56 White/black (to dimmer relay) Live with ignition on position 2
58 Grey (to park lights fuse 1 & 2) Live position 1 & 2
58b Grey/red (to speedo lights) Live position 1 & 2
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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TorxKiwi
A.k.a.: Dean Newell
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| posted on January 2nd, 2012 at 08:22 AM |
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Thanks, makes sense. Any idea which fuse the red should connect to? I found one end of the burnt out cable on about position 10 I think ...... I'm
not at home at the minute so can't check.
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psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
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| posted on January 2nd, 2012 at 08:29 AM |
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Go to the tech articles on thesamba.com they have wiring diagrams that for the most part will be fine for Oz. 30 is a direct feed from the regulator
to battery connection. It should also feed onwards to the ignition switch term 30. If it's been messed with this maybe the other way round but that
won't hurt anything.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
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| posted on January 2nd, 2012 at 08:33 AM |
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The red is unfused. It should join the top of the fuse box around fuse 9 if my seppo diagram is correct. There will be another red there going to the
ignition switch.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
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| posted on January 2nd, 2012 at 08:39 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
30 is a direct feed from the regulator to battery connection.
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It's a '75 (alternator) No number 30 to the regulator.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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TorxKiwi
A.k.a.: Dean Newell
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| posted on January 2nd, 2012 at 08:44 AM |
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Should I be using 10, 25 or other ampage cable?
"Ownership of a Beetle is not a destination it is a journey." |
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AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
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| posted on January 2nd, 2012 at 08:53 AM |
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Doesn't really matter for the red as the original is only 1.5mm (I don't know what that is in Australian bogan sizes)
Thicker is better.
The red is only for the park lights so it's probably only around 5 amps.
Do you know what caused the meltdown?
It might be worth doing a temporary connection with an in line fuse first in case there is another problem.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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