| [ Total Views: 691 | Total Replies: 8 | Thread Id: 94884 ] |
|
|
 Aussie Dubbin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 895
Threads: 90
Registered: July 21st, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 19th, 2012 at 09:15 PM |
|
|
HELP again please - Still Rear Brakes. New angle
Hi All,
Can you please help or offer advise… I am currently pulling my hair out!!!
I sadly bought the EMPI rear disc package form Classic as they were $400 inclusive and gave me my desired 5x130 stud pattern, But have not come close
to properly working brakes no matter what I have tried!!!
I have bought 4x hose clamps (ones that allow you to block off the flexible brake hoses in situ. they gently but firmly squeeze the hose to stop any
fluid going any further.) I bought these because I have not had any luck getting rid of my massively spongy pedal. I followed the following steps.
1. Clamp off all lines to test the Master Cylinder
RESULT: hard and solid brake pedal they way it should feel. So now I am fairly convinced the master cylinder has good pressure.
2. Undo one line at a time and bleed again.
RESULT: All bleeding well.
3. Next, undo two front lines pedal still hard and high. Great
4. Put front clamps back on and undo rear clamps … spongy pedal…!>!!!F@#&
I am sure that I have all the air out BUT decide to pull rear left caliper apart and check. All looks good, pull piston out and check all good. Bleed
once more with piston and bleed nipple held high to ensure no cavities or air pockets. Accidently push piston out while bleeding and have to start
again!!!
BUT this is where it gets interesting. I wedge a piece of timber into the exposed caliper to stop the piston moving (simulating the caliper in place
pushing on the pads.) and once bled again held high to ensure all air is pushed through, I test before refitting the caliper and the pedal is hard and
high. I start thinking, finally I have solved the problem. At this stage the sliding part of the caliper is still on the rear arm assembly and piston
part of caliper is loose (off car but attached to brake line)
BUT when it goes back together nothing has changed and there is too much spongy pedal. (I think most of the flex is related to the sliding
mechanism)
From what I can see it looks like the EMPI caliper is flexing and that is what I am feeling through the spongy pedal. Can you help???
I AM ABOUT TO CHUCK THE CRAPY CALIPER IN THE BIN! or DO I TRY A BIGGER M/C???
If I throw t in the bin, I will lathe down the existing hub and fit a ford hub over the top and an EA FALCON caliper like others have done. Is that my
only option? The mounting thickness of the EMPI hub is 18mm.
Thanks. If you have read this much, Sorry for the 20mins you just lost
Aaron
|
|
|
ragged
A.k.a.: David
Wolfsburg Wizard
Just ask if you need HELP!
Posts: 478
Threads: 46
Registered: January 25th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Medication seems to be working
|
| posted on January 19th, 2012 at 10:50 PM |
|
|
What happens if you place the caliper on the disc but don't bolt it on. I'm thinking the caliper bracket may not be true, giving the flexing you
describe. This will push the pistons back further than neccessary when pressure is released.
Cheers Dave
|
|
|
Aussie Dubbin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 895
Threads: 90
Registered: July 21st, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 20th, 2012 at 06:40 AM |
|
|
that's what I thought initally. I had to space the caliper evenly over the disc but not the is zero movement at the mounting plate
|
|
|
 matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on January 20th, 2012 at 07:31 AM |
|
|
Dave's idea sounds very feasable, otherwise diagnosing as you have done is the go. The next test as you have been doing (blocking hoses etc.) is,
whie still having the hoses blocked off, release one rear and clamp the piston movement of that (rear) caliper without fitting and check pedal. That
will proove weather it's air or not. Do the test with both rears individually. If the low pedal is definately not caused by air in the system, the
problem must be either mismatched piston diameter or I have seen comment on other forums regarding the need for residual pressure valves. Read this
product description http://www.vwparts.net/MB16-3155.html . I have just
fitted a pair of 10lb valves with drum rears when I fitted my cutting brakes.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
 |
|
|
Imac
Commited Dubber
Posts: 67
Threads: 0
Registered: December 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 20th, 2012 at 11:42 AM |
|
|
Have you changed to a dual circuit master cylinder? I use the same kit but switched to dual circuit and haven't had this problem. I've had most of
the other problems thou! and they must be the worst calipers to bled ever made.
|
|
|
ragged
A.k.a.: David
Wolfsburg Wizard
Just ask if you need HELP!
Posts: 478
Threads: 46
Registered: January 25th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Medication seems to be working
|
| posted on January 20th, 2012 at 12:51 PM |
|
|
You are right! There should be zero movement at the caliper bracket. If the caliper bracket is not true the flexing is transfered to the caliper. That
is why I suggested unbolting the caliper and test the pedal for movement/travel.
Drum brakes retain residual pressure in the lines which is overcome by the return springs. If you have residual pressure on a disc brake, the pads
will drag. Cheers Dave
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on January 21st, 2012 at 07:08 PM |
|
|
nothing like that empi quality
|
|
|
Aussie Dubbin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 895
Threads: 90
Registered: July 21st, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 22nd, 2012 at 10:48 AM |
|
|
I will unbolt and give it a go
|
|
|
OZ Towdster
A.k.a.: Andrew Westwood
Custom Title Time!
Keen to finish some projects
Posts: 1921
Threads: 132
Registered: December 7th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Alexandra Hills Brisbane QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Having fun in our great land
|
| posted on January 22nd, 2012 at 11:36 AM |
|
|
Search on Youtube " Empi Rear disc brake conversion" and see the horror stories and what is probabley happening with yours , then do your self a
favour and through them in the bin and by a decent set from Vintage , problem solved
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
|
|
|
