| [ Total Views: 1727 | Total Replies: 19 | Thread Id: 96861 ] |
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 68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on May 12th, 2012 at 12:13 AM |
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is a ball joint supposed to be easy to turn??
I've only ever had experience with new ball joints and tie rod ends and they are very tight when new...
very difficult to move them with Your hands..
so new ones are very tight...
I know once they are loose, they definately need replacing..
so, are they supposed to be tight all the time..
until they wear out???
I have an upper ball joint, with a ripped boot, which I want to replace as its easy to move with your hand..
I cannot get the bottom one unbolted off the lower arm..
so I can check what its like.. its boot is OK..
I have a scissor jack in between the two arms but no go..
they were new when the car hit the road in dec 2005..
The top ball joint on the LHS has a ripped boot too..
I'm replacing the torsion bar grease seals too..
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Shuffs
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| posted on May 12th, 2012 at 05:37 AM |
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One of these could get you out of strife Lee,available at Supercheap.Used with a BIG hammer(try it on the joint with the split boot
first)
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rickp
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| posted on May 12th, 2012 at 06:54 AM |
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To get the ball joints and grease seals out you are going to have to remove the arms.,
I did this:
Loosen bolts from ball joints and tie rod, loosen ball joints with splitter fork as shown above, remove tie rod, remove upper ball joint with the
camber compensator then remove complete spindle from the bottom ball joint
To remove the top ball joint you should be able to lift the top arm up with the suspension in its lowest position, although it will offer some
resistance it will go up with a bit of muscle.
Dont forget to separate the camber compensator from the top ball joint as well (before you pull the spindle out)
It will be a pain to do after it is out of the car.
Hope it helps
Good luck
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vwo60
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| posted on May 12th, 2012 at 07:08 AM |
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Try not to use the fork to get the ball joint tapper broken, if you intend to just replace the boots you run the chance of damaging the ball joint,
put your jack between the arms and load it up as much as you can, with a large hammer held against one side of the stub axle were the ball joint seats
hit the oposite side with another hammer, this will distort the tappered hole and the ball joint will come out, works for me every time for me.
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Uber Kafer
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| posted on May 12th, 2012 at 10:14 AM |
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Find a ball joint extractor tool that will fit in there, insitu. Its possible, they do exist, thats how I've done them before.
Leave the ball joint locknut on, but flush with the end of the ball joint thread, because that will help locate the arm of the ball joint extractor
tool.
Load up the ball joint tool as much as you can, and if it doesnt release, load it up some more, then hit the ball joint with a large 'persuader'.
The shock usually helps release the taper lock.
A scissor jack will then be needed to open up the arms to get the spindle out of the way, if needed.
2 useful tools for your garage DIY kit, a ball joint extractor tool, and a tie rod extractor tool.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on May 12th, 2012 at 10:33 AM |
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you check ball joint movement when its all together.
you know LEE like the bloke does when you get a rego check 
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psimitar
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| posted on May 12th, 2012 at 10:36 PM |
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yea, shame the ball joint clamp type tool won't fit on BJ spindles. They generally get anything undone, well if not cheap chinese shit 
Two other options. Use a large lump mallet to thump the area that the BJ taper sits in. This can shock it free. A hammer from either side is even
better.
Other option is heat the area the BJ sits in and use the BJ seperator fork. The heat should loosen the hubs grip on the BJ taper 
Don't use the jack on the A-arms as you could bend them.
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
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vwo60
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| posted on May 13th, 2012 at 08:14 AM |
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You would be flat out bending the trailing arms with a sissor jack, you just use it to load the joint, stay away from the fork if you intend to reuse
the ball joint.
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psimitar
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| posted on May 13th, 2012 at 11:19 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
You would be flat out bending the trailing arms with a sissor jack, you just use it to load the joint, stay away from the fork if you intend to reuse
the ball joint.
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Just personally not a fan of the idea
The heat should definately help tho
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on May 13th, 2012 at 06:04 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ian.mezz
you check ball joint movement when its all together.
you know LEE like the bloke does when you get a rego check
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Well, I have no movement when its all together--
just easy to move.. as they are VERY tight when new,,
so, I'm guessing that its OK..
I have another spare one and they are FEBI-Bilstein branded..
I'll check the LHS as they should be worn more than the RHS ??
always passed the rego check OK and the last fellow went over it for about 45 minutes,,??
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on May 13th, 2012 at 06:08 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
You would be flat out bending the trailing arms with a sissor jack, you just use it to load the joint, stay away from the fork if you intend to reuse
the ball joint.
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Just personally not a fan of the idea
The heat should definately help tho
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Yes, the scissor jack just haven't enough power to push it out
[would need hydraulics for that..]
will try two hammers tomorrow.. one either side..
the arms are solid and thick, not pressed steel..
I really don't want to heat anything..??
but mechanics at work used to heat just about anything to get them undone etc..
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Uber Kafer
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| posted on May 13th, 2012 at 06:28 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
yea, shame the ball joint clamp type tool won't fit on BJ spindles.
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??? They do fit. The opposed hinged lever style. Available from most auto parts stores.
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vwo60
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| posted on May 13th, 2012 at 08:52 PM |
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Lee, stay away from the heat as it is totally unnecessary, the jack is not used to break the tapper it s only there to preload the ball joint so when
you hit either side of the tapper it springs apart, it is also illegal to heat a stub axel.
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psimitar
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| posted on May 13th, 2012 at 09:25 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Lee, stay away from the heat as it is totally unnecessary, the jack is not used to break the tapper it s only there to preload the ball joint so when
you hit either side of the tapper it springs apart, it is also illegal to heat a stub axel.
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Illegal? Really? Been done in the UK for decades and never heard of any failures from this.
Just an idea that doesn't have to be followed plus the amount of heat is small so it won't change the materials properties but is normally enough to
loosen the nut, bolts, etc hold
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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vwo60
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| posted on May 14th, 2012 at 06:26 AM |
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Still illegal in Australia to weld or heat any stub axel and totally unnecessary to heat it as a couple of hits with the two hammers will get it
apart.
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Uber Kafer
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| posted on May 14th, 2012 at 02:33 PM |
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this is all sounding way too complicated... 2 hammers... big hammer.. heat.. dont heat...
Keep it simple folks.
Lee, buy or borrow a ball joint separator that has the bolt for applying a separating force. They exist and they work on a VW type1 ball joint front
end.
As for the original question, are they sposed to be tight or loose, the answer is yes. Tight when they are new, looser as they wear, but not flogged
to the point of sloppy. If there is any discernable movement when the wheel is pushed and pulled ( with the front jacked up off the ground of course)
they are probably ready for replacement.
In saying that, its a bit academic if you dont have a hydraulic press to push out the old ball joint and push in the new one, so at some stage you
have to deal with a workshop.
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Adsman
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| posted on May 14th, 2012 at 05:24 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Uber Kafer
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
yea, shame the ball joint clamp type tool won't fit on BJ spindles.
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??? They do fit. The opposed hinged lever style. Available from most auto parts stores.
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x2
I have an ABB brand one that works a treat. Also had a cheaper chinese one but it exploded.
What my garage isn't messy........Well chaos is a form of order isn't it?
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vwo60
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| posted on May 14th, 2012 at 08:18 PM |
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just try using the two hammers, works every time for me.
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Gracey
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| posted on May 14th, 2012 at 09:09 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
just try using the two hammers, works every time for me.
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A good mate of mine has been a mechanic for 30+ years, he uses the two hammer method all the time.
Try it, it works!!
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on May 16th, 2012 at 08:55 PM |
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Well,
I bought an opposed hinged style ball joint tool..
and had first ball joint off the spindle in a few minutes..
also tried the heating method on a spare spindletie rod end I had still attached.. it worked too..
its HENG HUI universal ball joint operator.. off ebay..Ex Sydney
LEE
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Adsman
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Uber Kafer
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
yea, shame the ball joint clamp type tool won't fit on BJ spindles.
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??? They do fit. The opposed hinged lever style. Available from most auto parts stores.
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x2
I have an ABB brand one that works a treat. Also had a cheaper chinese one but it exploded.
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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