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 pete wood
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| posted on September 29th, 2012 at 11:31 AM |
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Best budget track car?
In a bit of change over with my buggy selling and the like at the mo. I'm also turning 40 next year and you know how it is, you start to think,
"better do a few things or I'm gonna kick myself later".
So, I'm thinking about broaching the subject of a race car with the missus. Budget is the big thing. Ie. there's very little cash at the mo.
However, I can weld, paint, assemble, fab so it should be ok. What I'm thinking is something that could do motorkhanas, track days and maybe some
sort of low cost race series later on. Something my kids can learn to drive in too.
So here are my qus.
1. which model? (want least weigh/best handling options)
2. which motor?
3. which class/race series?
4. key/major costs?
My current thinking is leaning towards a late 1300 beetle with BJ/SA and sticking as close to 1600cc as pos to stay in the under 1600 class for IPRA.
What do you all reckon?
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 Bizarre
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| posted on September 29th, 2012 at 11:34 AM |
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an L bug
Futue te ipsum!!!
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pete wood
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| posted on September 29th, 2012 at 11:41 AM |
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wow, never thought you'd say that! 
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1303Steve
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| posted on September 29th, 2012 at 11:43 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
an L bug
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x2
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on September 29th, 2012 at 11:51 AM |
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I have what youre looking for for sale....I have sent you a PM. 
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beetleboyjeff
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| posted on September 29th, 2012 at 11:54 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
an L bug
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X3
From your ole' mate Jeff
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pete wood
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| posted on September 29th, 2012 at 12:18 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
I have what youre looking for for sale....I have sent you a PM.
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yeah, gonna have to save up first.
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hellbugged
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| posted on September 29th, 2012 at 08:13 PM |
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http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=98989
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cnfabo
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 08:41 AM |
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Why ipra pete. You would need a beast of a engine just to stay at the back of the pack in ipra series.
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Joel
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 12:15 PM |
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You know, I can really see that in Green with cookie cutters and yellow sign writing 
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 01:07 PM |
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^^
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BiX
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 02:21 PM |
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L bug if you want to stay VW, but I would be looking outside of the VW stable.
The Excel's have a rally series in each state, and also some states have track series. The specs are similar. The rally cars come from 4k to 12k
depending on specs, but for about 7k you can get one fully caged and prepped with decent suspension. Not the fastest, but easy to repair, if you blow
the engine $500 at the wreckers get you a new enginer and spare panels etc......
I have been looking at selling my half built L bug and going the excel or import route..... far cheaper.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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pete wood
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 06:32 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by cnfabo
Why ipra pete. You would need a beast of a engine just to stay at the back of the pack in ipra series.
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Well, IPRA isn't just a race series. Lots of hillclimb guys run that class too. And there are many ways to skin a cat, or in this case, build a
beast. IPRA allows you lots of freedoms for a light pre-86 car. I've looked around and it seems it's not all that hard to build a reliable turbo
engine that would make over 200hp with mostly stock internals. So that's a real option down the track if I want.
BiX; I know what you mean. I've looked into that in the past. Two things stop me.
1. I'd love a rally car and an excel is the pick as you say, but I just don't have time to do a rally even semi regularly. I literally get 4 sundays
off a year and that's it.
2. I like beetles and I know how to make them handle. And parts are pretty cheap for them compared to a lot of other stuff. Yes, the engines are not
high HP, but that forces you to really drive and driving is what I'm in it for.
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pete wood
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 06:59 PM |
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Just BTW, before I posted this question, I went through ebay motor section starting from 0.99c to see what was available, race-able and cheap. In the
end I came back to beetle for a few more reasons; They are; still insanely cheap, light, not as given to rust as most things their age, popular,
everywhere, easy to find cheap hot-up bits, rear wheel drive and classic. Everything I liked the look of was either Italian, German, rusty, finicky
and or $10k plus. Plus, I know a stack of people who know how to build hot beetles and you can always sell them off easily if you need to. So yeah,
there will be no GTi, SRi, Vtec or 16v badges on the side, but I know what I'm getting.
And just so as you know, a series 1 RX7 or BMW 2002 would be my next pick... no one wants me to do that.
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cnfabo
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 08:36 PM |
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Oh,I forgot about the turbo route,good option.
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waveman1500
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 08:51 PM |
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This is how I first got into Beetles. I bought my 1500 six years ago for $300 and used it for motorkhanas and khanacross. I started with the stock
1500cc single-port and later upgraded to a stock 1600cc twin-port. I also had 14x6" alloy rims and Monroe GT Gas shocks. Other than that, it was all
stock.
They're great if you just want to enjoy competing on a tight budget, but you'll have to spend big money on engine work if you actually want to win
at khanacross, rally or hillclimbs. They are competitive in motorkhana though.
Advantages:
Big wheelarches
14" rims are cheap and 14" tyres are cheap. Note that you want to stick to road tyres. If you put rally tyres on, then you will be in the modified
class with fully-built rally cars.
You'll be in Class C for motorkhanas, where a Beetle is actually quite competitive.
Disadvantages:
In any racing based on engine size, you'll be thrashed by Datsuns. And Corollas. And Ford Escorts. And everything else. This can be fixed with engine
work, but then you'll be spending real money.
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Aussie Dubbin
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 08:51 PM |
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Just think again about carbed turbo. Someone suggested to me that turbo carbed, would be good for starting a stopping all the time but flat out high
rpm power.
I would go bj/IRS or strut IRS. If you have a swinger then go for it but If you are choosing... IRS is much more stable. Ring richard at Vforce. He
is such a wealth of info. Have a read through my thread below. I could rewrite a lot here, but pm me if you have a few questions
I have hit a build snag in my first child,
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bugzla
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 09:05 PM |
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Go a ROTA ...................... feel the power 
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pete wood
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 09:57 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by waveman1500
They're great if you just want to enjoy competing on a tight budget, but you'll have to spend big money on engine work if you actually want to win
at khanacross, rally or hillclimbs...
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That is true for any car in any class. Wanna win, forget the budget, it's money no object. And in rally, nothing wins unless its AWD or the latest
$$$$$$$$$ factory FWD. Everyone else is just competing to finish.
Funny you should say datsuns, coz my car club is full of them. However, the fastest driver in the club, by a country mile drives.... wait for it.... a
turboed Mazda 121 bubble car. He's eaten porsches and evos in it. That said, he could be driving a ride-on lawn mower and he'd still win. It's
mostly down to skill at club level really...
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 10:09 PM |
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following this guys "cheap" fun !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOzRH6R_Uuo&list=UU2eM7ZuCPfXTAgbKOpuIaIg&...
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pete wood
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 10:46 PM |
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that is truly cheap... and personifies nearly everything (except the results) that I'd rather avoid.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 11:20 PM |
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......swing axle VW, 1600 with kaddies.......thats what you want !
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mactaylor
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 08:38 AM |
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In the latest RACE magazine there is a turbo datsun 1200 coupe that is still basically stock 1200 engine that holds a few track records for its class
very good read and quite easy to emulate.
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
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pete wood
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 08:40 AM |
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Doesn't have to have Kads. But yeah, something like that... as opposed to a horrible, ricey magna. 
Mac, I was just reading that and thinking pretty much the same thing.
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Joel
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 09:55 AM |
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Good on the ol boy for getting in there and having a go.
Although seriously? he takes an insurance write off that has been sitting in a holding yard for god knows how long and when nothing electrical
works.... A flat battery? for real? GTFO!!!
That's the first thing you'd check.
Oh well good to see he's a believer in the old coldstart redline for a good time for maximum engine life
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sander288
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 10:15 AM |
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I'd say king pin front and swing axle rear  But if your not
into that then a 1302 (L bug???) would be a good start; some great performance parts available off the shelf for this model (KW suspension, bilstein
& more)
The king pin beam is stronger and can take more abuse than a ball joint; Andrew Dodd raced successfully with this combo in the 80's
As far as engine goes a turbo motor would be awesome! There is a capacity multiplier though of I think 1.7 so a 1300cc would be counted as a 2184cc if
turbo'd which would put it against a bit stiffer competition, also adding a turbo to it when not standard means you'd have to run a restrictor plate
If it was N/A with a 1600 you could defiantly make it scream with some 044 heads, a hot cam, twin carbs and compression for not a great deal of money.
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pete wood
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 01:12 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sander288
The king pin beam is stronger and can take more abuse than a ball joint; Andrew Dodd raced successfully with this combo in the 80's
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but KP beams have two serious issues.
1. camber; it's neutral at best, but even with adjusting the shims, it's almost impossible to get consistent negative camber.
2. trailing arms; they flex and bend under the load of heavy cornering.
Added to all that, it's a nightmare to work on and takes a fitter and machinist to fix properly. Yes, Andrew had success, but really, the guy is a
freak. He could race anything and make it work.
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Joel
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 01:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
Yes, Andrew had success, but really, the guy is a freak. He could race anything and make it work.
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Ha, now ain't that the truth.
A few members on here will remember back a few years ago coming back from Dorrigo on the freeway when he dissapeared into the distance in that ratty
brown split window beetle.
I saw with my own eyes it looks just like a stock 1100 25hp, just secretly Doddified
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1303Steve
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 02:03 PM |
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Hi
Who remembers Doddy running around Raleigh in his blue T3 parts getter, it was like watching a ballerina
Steve
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sander288
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 02:42 PM |
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has no-one seen Paul Mantiet run in his Rapier vee? Link-pin front; negative camber and on top of the Vee championship - but yeah with some
maintenance considerations
But the beam front axle is never going to be better than the struts (IMO), big brother wouldn't have moved on if it was
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