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 65standard
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 09:22 AM |
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Starting woes
G'day guys,
I know it's Sunday morning and most are probably still getting over last night, but I am having a lot of trouble with the starting of my Beetle.
It's a STOCK 1200 6V.
I did a service on the car lasy Monday, and the only part of the ignition touched was to get the ignition timing to 10 deg BTDC.
The car ran well after the service, and the next day fired up well and I continued with my running around and going to work for the next couple of
days.
Then I had trouble trying to start the car the next day and the engine flooded with fuel. After a number of attempts to purge the engine of unburnt
fuel, the car finally started and I was on my way again. This became a bit of a hit and miss until yesterday, when I was looking at what the problem
was, it now won't start but cranks over strongly.
This is what I have done since yesterday trying to eliminate the problem as I go along.
Fuel pump pressure checked - 3.5psi
Top of carby pulled off to check needle valve. It was a little sticky, even after cleaning it, so I replaced it with another needle valve I had. Still
no starting and flooding.
Pulled all the plugs out, and they were wet, so cleaned, dried and refitted.
Checked the condensor, and it checked OK, using the test light from the LT lead connector on the coil to the LT lead itself and ignition on. No
illumination of the light, so condensor seems OK (yes light works). I fitted a new coil also, still no go. All these items were changed or fiddled
with one at a time so as to try and eliminate the problem.
I fitted new cap, rotor, plugs and points back in July, so I cleaned them and refitted them. After trying to start the car a number of times
yesterday, I ran the battery down, so I had it charging overnight, to make an early start today.
Still no go with the ignition. I checked the timing today (statically with a test light) and found the timing was well advanced to about 17 deg BTDC.
My initial reaction was that I had forgotten to tighten the distributor or didn't tighten it enough, but it was rock solid. I statically timed the
ignition again and tried to start, but to no avail, but it did sound like it tried to kick, but was too flooded, and the battery ran down again. It's
on charge at the moment while I scratch my head as to what the problem is. Any help will be greatly appreciated as I need the car for work
tomorrow.
Sorry about the long post, but I'm at a loss as to what would be preventing the ignition when all seems to work.
Thanks,
Norm
[size=4]If it ain't broke, fix it till it is![/size]
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 10:07 AM |
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Pull the breaker plate out of the dizzy and check that the advance weights are free and working and the spring is intact , plus waht are the HT leads
like , mostly the one between the coil and dizzy cap .
Check when cranking that the 6volt power to the coil is staying at 6 volts and not intermitant
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
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sander288
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 10:14 AM |
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Are the points in the dizzy set-up with a gap? If they are a little old they could have a high spot and might of closed up
The only other thing is double check all the connections to the coil etc and double check the ignition leads, check that each wire and plug are
firing.
If the carb is flooding it's because your on the gas too much; get rid of the fuel put your foot once on the gas to activate the choke and then try
and start it.
When you say the plugs were wet do you mean with fuel, oil or water?
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68AutoBug
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 10:47 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 65standard
G'day guys,
I know it's Sunday morning and most are probably still getting over last night, but I am having a lot of trouble with the starting of my Beetle.
It's a STOCK 1200 6V.
I did a service on the car lasy Monday, and the only part of the ignition touched was to get the ignition timing to 10 deg BTDC.
The car ran well after the service, and the next day fired up well and I continued with my running around and going to work for the next couple of
days.
Then I had trouble trying to start the car the next day and the engine flooded with fuel. After a number of attempts to purge the engine of unburnt
fuel, the car finally started and I was on my way again. This became a bit of a hit and miss until yesterday, when I was looking at what the problem
was, it now won't start but cranks over strongly.
This is what I have done since yesterday trying to eliminate the problem as I go along.
Fuel pump pressure checked - 3.5psi
Top of carby pulled off to check needle valve. It was a little sticky, even after cleaning it, so I replaced it with another needle valve I had. Still
no starting and flooding.
Pulled all the plugs out, and they were wet, so cleaned, dried and refitted.
Checked the condensor, and it checked OK, using the test light from the LT lead connector on the coil to the LT lead itself and ignition on. No
illumination of the light, so condensor seems OK (yes light works). I fitted a new coil also, still no go. All these items were changed or fiddled
with one at a time so as to try and eliminate the problem.
I fitted new cap, rotor, plugs and points back in July, so I cleaned them and refitted them. After trying to start the car a number of times
yesterday, I ran the battery down, so I had it charging overnight, to make an early start today.
Still no go with the ignition. I checked the timing today (statically with a test light) and found the timing was well advanced to about 17 deg BTDC.
My initial reaction was that I had forgotten to tighten the distributor or didn't tighten it enough, but it was rock solid. I statically timed the
ignition again and tried to start, but to no avail, but it did sound like it tried to kick, but was too flooded, and the battery ran down again. It's
on charge at the moment while I scratch my head as to what the problem is. Any help will be greatly appreciated as I need the car for work
tomorrow.
Sorry about the long post, but I'm at a loss as to what would be preventing the ignition when all seems to work.
Thanks,
Norm
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Hi
I don't know why the timing changed like that??
but it seems to me that Your problem seems to be flooding??
as that will stop a car easily...
and to start a flooded car You hold the throttle to the floor until it starts... what this does is let as much air in as it can...
and the flooded engine do usually start...
OK so now the carby is still flooding??
and there seems to be no spark either...??
condensors are a throwaway item and was replaced with the distributor cap and rotor about once a year.. They can get intermittant where they will
work when cold/hot and stop when Hot/Cold etc... You cannot test this...
and the gap in the points is crucial for the condensor to work.
Does Your distributor have a large metal vacuum can on the side?? If this has a leaking diaphram it won't be advancing..
Maybe that is where the extra advance came from???
suck on the vacuum hose to see if the points plate moves
every time You suck on the hose...
with the air cleaner OFF... look down the throat of the carburetor to see if fuel is pouring in there [flooding] when You turn the engine over [need ahelper there]
If its a large hole near the top - its the overflow from when the carby chamber is full of fuel.. meaning the fuel isn't being cutoff by the needle
and seat.. put a rubber or fibre or copper washer under the needle and seat to lower the fuel level.. even two washers...
Does Your carburetor have an electromagnetic fuel cutoff solenoid sticking out with a wire to it?
If it does, then make sure it has power to it with the ignition on... and it clicks when You pull the wire off it...
No Power or No clicking... this is Your problem... or another problem.. also check the rotor in the distributor.. as they have a resistor built into
them between the outside and centre.. these have been know to blow .. needs checking with light or multimeter...
take a spark plug lead off a spark plug then just sit it on the plug...
With some one turning the engine over... with the key..
just take the end of the lead and hold it near the top of the spark plug to see if there is a spark...
Also, You changed the coil..
Are you 100% sure its connected up correctly + to ignition wire.. -- to condensor..
If connected wrong it can work but with reduced voltage..
This is done a lot of times... lol by a lot of people...
also check the main coil hi tension lead .. If its the old wire type of lead no worries.. but the silicon type can break internally very easily...
just by pulling the lead off the coil..
thats about it from here... Good Morning
LEE
PS: another thing I just thought of... check to see the little carbon button and spring is still sitting in the top of the distributor cap... these
have been known to fall out...
LEE
YIKES... 1964 was a long time ago.. I was just a kid fiddling with My fathers new beetle.. lol
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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shokwave2
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 11:25 AM |
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Make sure your dizzy is seated down all the way before tightening the clamp. It may be raised a few millimetres, allowing the dizzy to jump out of the
dizzy gear.
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65standard
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 01:22 PM |
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Thanks for all the responses guys. Very much appreciated.
[size=4]sander288[/size]
| Quote: |
Are the points in the dizzy set-up with a gap? If they are a little old they could have a high spot and might of closed uprnrnThe only other thing is
double check all the connections to the coil etc and double check the ignition leads, check that each wire and plug are firing. rnrnIf the carb is
flooding it's because your on the gas too much; get rid of the fuel put your foot once on the gas to activate the choke and then try and start it.
rnrnWhen you say the plugs were wet do you mean with fuel, oil or water?
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.016" points gap. Plugs wet with fuel. My normal start-up is press accelerator once, activatiing auto-choke and it normally fires straight up. Even
trying to purge the fuel, I let the engine crank without pressing the accelerator for a few cranks, then hold the accelerator pedal to the floor while
cranking.
[size=4]68AutoBug[/size]
| Quote: | condensors are a
throwaway item and was replaced with the distributor cap and rotor about once a year.. They can get intermittant where they will work when cold/hot
and stop when Hot/Cold etc... You cannot test this...and the gap in the points is crucial for the condensor to work. Does Your distributor have a
large metal vacuum can on the side?? If this has a leaking diaphram it won't be advancing.. Maybe that is where the extra advance came from??? suck
on the vacuum hose to see if the points plate moves every time You suck on the hose
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Yes vacuum advance, and it works well when the vacuum hose is sucked, and the return spring works well.
| Quote: | ...with the air
cleaner OFF... look down the throat of the carburetor to see if fuel is pouring in there [flooding] when You turn the engineover [need a helper there]
If its a large hole near the top - its the overflow from when the carby chamber is full of fuel.. meaning the fuel isn't being cutoff by the needle
and seat.. put a rubber or fibre or copper washer under the needle and seat to lower the fuel level.. even two washers... Does Your carburetor have an
electromagnetic fuel cutoff solenoid sticking out with a wire to it? If it does, then make sure it has power to it with the ignition on... and it
clicks when You pull the wire off it...No Power or No clicking... this is Your problem... or another problem..
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No electric fuel cut-off. 28PICT carb (original Aussie SOLEX at that). I bent the float lever arm slightly down, effectively the same as putting an
extra washer under the float valve.
| Quote: | You changed the
coil.. Are you 100% sure its connected up correctly + to ignition wire.. -- to condensor.. If connected wrong it can work but with reduced
voltage..This is done a lot of times... lol by a lot of people...also check the main coil hi tension lead .. If its the old wire type of lead no
worries.. but the silicon type can break internally very easily... just by pulling the lead off the coil..thats about it from here...
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It's a new Bosch coil. 15 is + and 1 is -. They are connected up correctly as far as I can make out with the numbers. The HT lead appears to be
fine.
| Quote: | Good Morning
LEErnrnPS: another thing I just thought of... check to see the little carbon button and spring is still sitting in the top of the distributor cap...
these have been known to fall out...LEE YIKES... 1964 was a long time ago.. I was just a kid fiddling with My fathers new beetle.. lo
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The carbon button in the distributor cap and springing well.
[size=4]shokwave2[/size]
| Quote: | Make sure your dizzy
is seated down all the way before tightening the clamp. It may be raised a few millimetres, allowing the dizzy to jump out of the dizzy gear.
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I've done this once before, but not this time.
[size=4]OzTowdster[/size]
| Quote: | Pull the breaker
plate out of the dizzy and check that the advance weights are free and working and the spring is intact , plus waht are the HT leads like , mostly the
one between the coil and dizzy cap . Check when cranking that the 6volt power to the coil is staying at 6 volts and not intermitant
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As answered above, the breaker plate is free and the spring is good. The HT lead appears to be good.
I gave it another go, and renewed the condensor, redid the ignition timing to 10 deg BTDC after I removed the distributor to change the condensor, got
everything setup again, and still nothing. The battery is at 6.27V, even though it wasn't fully charged (Optima battery), but I'm getting about 5.1V
at the coil (+ #15), the ignition switch is getting 5.8V.
I'm going to wait another hour or so and let the battery charge up some more before giving it another go. If it doesn't work this time, looks like
I'll be catching the train to work tomorrow. Not happy about that.
Thanks again for all you help and suggestions. Will keep you posted.
Norm
[size=4]If it ain't broke, fix it till it is![/size]
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 matberry
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 01:29 PM |
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Get the spark strong, while cranking. Maybe the points or distributer aren't earthing properly, or condensor wiring misplaced causing a short.
You can manually trigger the coil and check for a strong spark, then progressively test the LT circuit
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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65standard
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 01:51 PM |
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Thanks Matt. When you say "manually trigger the coil", what exactly do you mean?
Cheers,
Norm
[size=4]If it ain't broke, fix it till it is![/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 01:51 PM |
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Hi
OK on not having the electromagnetic idle jet..
and the choke which I forgot about..
the choke can choke the engine but the engine will normally FIRE when cranking and stop..
Sounds like NO SPARK... still..
OK on coil and distributor.. and voltage is OK...
last thing I would try..
connect a wire from the + terminal on the battery
straight to the coil + 15
You can disconnect the original wire [doesn't really matter]
but it will GIVE You the maximum voltage when the starter is turning
maybe the contacts in the ignition switch are dirty / pitted..
and You are losing voltage thru it [more when the starter motor is turning] this is a common thing with old ignition switches.. Hot start
relays stop that happening...
Last last thing is to push start it... but I really don't think it is going to start, otherwise it would fire at least.. or misfire??
You could measure the voltage at the coil with the starter motor going... It WILL be a BIG drop... Maybe too Big..
its not good to have wet plugs [way too much fuel]??
Spark plugs should have a mist of fuel.. Not a liquid..
make sure no fuel is pouring into the carby throat... overflow
it can happen anytime.. Float was operating perfectly??
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 01:52 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 65standard
Thanks Matt. When you say "manually trigger the coil", what exactly do you mean?
Cheers,
Norm
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Something I've never done either??
Bench test?? I've only ever tested coils with a multimeter
checking the resistance in Ohms.. K Ohms..
:LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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65standard
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 02:32 PM |
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G'day again Lee.
The choke works fine.
I have a start relay. Was already fitted when I bought the car over three years ago, and no problems since.
I checked the resistance on the coil and is showing 1.5 Ohms. Not sure if it's meant to be half a 12V which I've seen written as 3 Ohms.
Cheers,
Norm
[size=4]If it ain't broke, fix it till it is![/size]
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sander288
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 03:26 PM |
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Have you tried swapping out the plugs? Seeing as the ones you've got have been soaked in fuel even if you've dried them they may still be moist
beyond repair.
Worth a shot if you haven't had luck yet
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 04:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 65standard
G'day again Lee.
The choke works fine.
I have a start relay. Was already fitted when I bought the car over three years ago, and no problems since.
I checked the resistance on the coil and is showing 1.5 Ohms. Not sure if it's meant to be half a 12V which I've seen written as 3 Ohms.
Cheers,
Norm
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Hi Norm
most coils are under 3 ohms resistance and 1 or 1.5 are common [in 12 volts] so maybe 6 volt at 3 ohms
although the 12v coils I use are all 3 ohms..
for Pertronix pointless ignition..
it seems You have Fuel.. maybe too much...
You can turn the fuel off at the tank..
the floor lever at 45 degrees...
between 12 o'clock and 3 o' clock
that should stop the flooding..
[may not until the bowl is empty]
its odd that there is no spark.. at all..
or too much fuel for a spark... plugs shouldn't be wet..
I'm guessing that fuel is being heavily sprayed into engine as soon as You hit the starter..
or pumped...
causing flooding... which will stop an engine..
while You are doing this I would, adjust the auto choke so the choke flap is open all the time... just loosen the 3 screws
and slide it a few mms..
that will give it more air...
LEE
with no fuel... a teaspoon of fuel down the carby throat
should have the engine fire a few times... IF You have spark..
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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65standard
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 05:16 PM |
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Thanks again for the advice sander288 and 68AutoBug.
Still no luck on getting ANY spark at all. The rest of the electrics are fine and all working, including the starter.
I checked the resistance of the leads and the figures are as follows:
1. 1.042 kOhms
2. 1.015 kOhms
3. 1.021 kOhms
4. 1.085 kOhms
HT Lead 3.34 kOhms
I also checked between the + and the HT lead post and the - and the HT lead post on the old coil and got a reading of 6.05 kOhms. On the new coil the
reading was 12.25 kOhms. Which is the good reading?
Another reading I took was a direct reading to the lead going to the + of the coil. Got a reading of 6.05V. When I connected the lead to the coil the
reading dropped to 5.35V.
With the ignition on, I manually opened the points from the closed position with a paddle pop stick and get click or very small snap from the
points.
Other than that, no progress and a lot less hair.
Cheers,
Norm
[size=4]If it ain't broke, fix it till it is![/size]
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shokwave2
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 06:30 PM |
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Check all fuses. Make sure none are blown and are sitting in the fuse box correctly. You may have to trace all wiring thru the car to make sure it's
not shorting out anywhere. Where in Sydney are you?
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BRUTUS
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 06:38 PM |
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Replace the condensor (capacitor) with a new or known good old one. They can appaer to be OK when tested but 'break down' when in use.
ACE 30 & 40 oils: specifically engineered for your Air Cooled VW
delivered (free del.) throughout Yarra Valley / Ranges, & Gippsland areas. Also ACE 20, 50 & 90.
FOR SALE: ACE 30, 40 etc. Oil formulations & Trade-names.
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65standard
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 07:34 PM |
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Still no go. Renewed distributor cap, condensor and plugs.
I did a test using a spark plug lead from the coil directly to a new spark plug, and was getting a spark at the plug. As I was on my own doing this, I
had to use a wall mirror while cranking the engine over. The spark looked to be a bright yellow to a white.
Shockwave2 All the fuses are intact and in place. I'm in the Hurstville area.
BRUTUS as you have suggested, I renewed the condensor earlier in the day.
Thanks for your help guys. I've only just come back in from the garage and am stumped by this one. Never had a problem like this before. Looks like
using the train to work tomorrow. Not looking forward to it at all.
Cheers,
Norm
[size=4]If it ain't broke, fix it till it is![/size]
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OZ Towdster
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 08:13 PM |
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Here's a thought that should have come to me before now as i had the same problem on a mk1 cortina years ago .
Check your points are somehow not earthed to the moving side of the points ,ie all parts of the moving side of the points should not give you a circut
to earth or 0 ohms
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 08:48 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 65standard
Thanks again for the advice sander288 and 68AutoBug.
Still no luck on getting ANY spark at all. The rest of the electrics are fine and all working, including the starter.
I checked the resistance of the leads and the figures are as follows:
1. 1.042 kOhms
2. 1.015 kOhms
3. 1.021 kOhms
4. 1.085 kOhms
HT Lead 3.34 kOhms
I also checked between the + and the HT lead post and the - and the HT lead post on the old coil and got a reading of 6.05 kOhms. On the new coil the
reading was 12.25 kOhms. Which is the good reading?
Another reading I took was a direct reading to the lead going to the + of the coil. Got a reading of 6.05V. When I connected the lead to the coil the
reading dropped to 5.35V.
With the ignition on, I manually opened the points from the closed position with a paddle pop stick and get click or very small snap from the
points.
Other than that, no progress and a lot less hair.
Cheers,
Norm
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Hi Norm
all that sounds good..
spark should be Blue not yellow or white..
are You sure that the coil is 6 volt?
I think the problem is the spark... Not enough of it..
the leads sound correct as I checked all mine recently..
I just checked a spare coil here and its 14k ohms and 3 ohms
I'm thinking that New coil is 12 volts...
hence the yellow spark...
Did the old coil test out OK..??
maybe it will work now...??
as there may have been another problem...
at least it should kick and ignite the fuel...
cheers Norm
LEE Yes, its given Me a headache today..too lol
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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shokwave2
A.k.a.: Matt Hamilton
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 08:48 PM |
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Not sure if you've already done these things but check your dizzy cap for cracks, also check the rotor for cracks or wear. Try and borrow another
dizzy. These things always turn out be something simple, like a worn wire or old condenser
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 08:51 PM |
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Hi
Yes he has a new coil distributor cap and plugs..
leads test out OK...
plugs were wet with fuel.. but I think that was just from excessive trying to start...
Lee
I think now the coil maybe 12 volt..???
maybe marked as 6 volt??
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 08:57 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 65standard
Thanks again for the advice sander288 and 68AutoBug.
Still no luck on getting ANY spark at all. The rest of the electrics are fine and all working, including the starter.
I checked the resistance of the leads and the figures are as follows:
1. 1.042 kOhms
2. 1.015 kOhms
3. 1.021 kOhms
4. 1.085 kOhms
HT Lead 3.34 kOhms
I also checked between the + and the HT lead post and the - and the HT lead post on the old coil and got a reading of 6.05 kOhms. On the new coil the
reading was 12.25 kOhms. Which is the good reading?
Another reading I took was a direct reading to the lead going to the + of the coil. Got a reading of 6.05V. When I connected the lead to the coil the
reading dropped to 5.35V.
With the ignition on, I manually opened the points from the closed position with a paddle pop stick and get click or very small snap from the
points.
Other than that, no progress and a lot less hair.
Cheers,
Norm
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Try the old coil coil again...
seems the new one isn't getting enough voltage.. OUT
did You check the rotor in the dissy with a multimeter?
they have a built in resistor which can burn out but its not common [even though You can buy them without the resistor in the USA] may be a semi open
circuit..??
and losing the spark after going thru it..???
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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65standard
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| posted on November 11th, 2012 at 10:40 PM |
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Lee, the new coil is 6V It's a Bosch and is stamped on the base of it as 6V and of course the sticker.
I may go back and try the old coil Lee, but I was having the same trouble yesterday, before I started changing components one by one to try and find
the problem.
Shockwave2, the grounding lead in the dizzy is fine and the dizzy seems to wor well.
It will be something stupid and simple, but won't be forgotten easily once it's found.
Items changed or checked so far:
1. Points
2. Condensor
3. Distributor Cap
4. Coil
5. Plugs
6. Rotor
7. Leads checked
8. Carby float valve changed.
9. Ignition timing checked
Thanks for your help guys. I'm calling it a day (what a long one at that), as I now have to face the ugly truth of catching a train tomorrow. The
battery should have a full head of charge to attack this problem again.
Cheers,
Norm
[size=4]If it ain't broke, fix it till it is![/size]
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matberry
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| posted on November 12th, 2012 at 08:15 AM |
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Sorry Norm, I was in the shed untill late last night. Hope you had a win to get to work. but incase you didn't.....
The coil works by the LT lead switching to earth, Therefore to simulate this, disconnect the og wiring ie. LT green wire from coil neg to points.
Place a cable onto the coil neg terminal and as you touch it to earth, the coil will fire a spark. Make sure you have a strong spark, then work your
way along the same LT circuit next at the distributer then points etc. The spark should stay strong otherwise something is shorting to earth or not
contacting to earth as the case may be.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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BRUTUS
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| posted on November 12th, 2012 at 04:03 PM |
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I had a fun few hours once standing on the side of one of Melbourne's busier roads: the '76 beetle had just stopped, and didn't want to go again.
The problem seemed clearly to be in the electrics. After changing everything available on the motor --- it turned out that the fault was in the
ignition-switch! It would turn over, and give a spark, WHILE the starter motor was operating... But when the switch was released and the switch fell
back to the "run" position, contact was lost and the spark disappeared. Anyway, maybe your switch is faulty - or something else outside the engine
itself (wiring? loose cable? solenoid? relay connexions?) -- so you appear to get some spark when testing/observing - but it isn't sustained in
normal operation. Just an idea...!
ACE 30 & 40 oils: specifically engineered for your Air Cooled VW
delivered (free del.) throughout Yarra Valley / Ranges, & Gippsland areas. Also ACE 20, 50 & 90.
FOR SALE: ACE 30, 40 etc. Oil formulations & Trade-names.
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haccc
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| posted on November 12th, 2012 at 06:55 PM |
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if you have a solex carby make sure the nylon piece that holds the float pin has the loop towards the body the other way around jams the needle and
seat
I started out with nothing ,I still have some left
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
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| posted on November 12th, 2012 at 07:12 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by BRUTUS
I had a fun few hours once standing on the side of one of Melbourne's busier roads: the '76 beetle had just stopped, and didn't want to go again.
The problem seemed clearly to be in the electrics. After changing everything available on the motor --- it turned out that the fault was in the
ignition-switch! It would turn over, and give a spark, WHILE the starter motor was operating... But when the switch was released and the switch fell
back to the "run" position, contact was lost and the spark disappeared. Anyway, maybe your switch is faulty - or something else outside the engine
itself (wiring? loose cable? solenoid? relay connexions?) -- so you appear to get some spark when testing/observing - but it isn't sustained in
normal operation. Just an idea...!
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Yes.. Good One..
Have seen that happen
and its easy to get the float jammed while having carby apart.
also common with the switches as they are VERY old now..
even though he has a hot wire relay installed..
so a wire straight to the battery to the coil +
plus checking the float in the carby...
that its not over flowing...
as I have seen solex floats jammed probably with the nylon pivot piece... lol
or just staying down even though fuel is there...
Also check the points..
I had a set wear down and turn shorting out an electronic ignition.. the wearing block was plastic..
Has to be something that has been over looked as everything
has been replaced and tested..
as engine was going OK then stopped.
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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65standard
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| posted on November 12th, 2012 at 08:33 PM |
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Evening guys,
Just want to thank all of you with your help and suggestions.
Matt Berry, I followed your advice and couldn't get the plug to spark using your method. Must've been something wrong I was doing. After comparing
the new and old coils, I came to the conclusion, with the help of Lee, that the new coil, although not being 12V had 12 kOhms resistance compared to
the old coil having only 6 kOhms resistance.
Again, using your test Matt, I couldn't get a spark at the plug, but I refitted the old coil thinking the new coil required too much power to run
it.
Anyway, after refitting the old coil and a fully charged battery, the engine fired first turn and blew a lot of black smoke for about 10 seconds, and
the engine kept running without stalling. I let the engine run till the auto choke was fully warm and open so I could drain the oil, because there was
so much fuel in the engine case. The oil level physically rose and the smell of fuel when I drained the engine case.
I let the engine drain for about half-hour, and refilled it and took the car for a run. Ran beautifully, and nice to hear the flat four behind me and
not the sound of train station announcements I had to listen to today. You can't keep a good VW and its owner down for too long, and the train ride
was enough incentive to get the job done!
haccc, the old 28PICT doesn't have the nylon tab to hold the float in place. It has a brass tab in the upper carb body to hold the float in place.
I'll remain quietly confident for now, as I don't want the bug to hear me and give me a hard time later.
Once again, thanks to everyone who offered their advice. It's good to get other people's ideas, opinions and experience when I have run out of ideas
of what to do. That's what these forums are all about.
[size=4]If it ain't broke, fix it till it is![/size]
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matberry
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| posted on November 12th, 2012 at 09:21 PM |
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Good to hear it's running. Where you're going wrong with the quick test of checking for spark is that your testing at the spark plug which is after
the distributer, so the rotor would need to be at the correct point inside the cap. You need to look at the coil output at the HT lead where it plugs
into the centre of the distributer cap. Remove this lead from the cap and position it close to an earth and fire the coil while looking for the spark
produced. Just for future reference 
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
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Registered: August 31st, 2002
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Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
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Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
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| posted on November 12th, 2012 at 10:51 PM |
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[size=6]GREAT NEWS
GREAT TO SEE YOU FINALLY FOUND THE CULPRIT --
NEW COIL[/size]
Good to see You found the fuel in the sump..
as thinned out oil isn't good for the engine..
so, it was flooding badly too...
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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