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 hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on August 16th, 2013 at 08:13 PM |
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Jeff works out in his head the % increase of stiffness with increasing bar diameter.... It's pretty cool to witness (60th birthday slipped past
yesterday)
Ben Durie commented last time watching the notch, that it was dropping too low.... Surprised that it already had 29mm
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on August 17th, 2013 at 11:06 AM |
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Hi
The 26 mm bars really let rear end drop under power, 28 mm bars are the next step I guess.
Below is a chart I found somewhere on the net, I'm not sure how accurate it is.
I wished Onion a happy birthday the other day but I was too early.
Steve
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on August 17th, 2013 at 11:08 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Pickpocket
I'm curious how those bars will work also. I installed a set of 944 bars in mine and it feels awful stiff, but I don't have the engine or anything
in it yet so hopefully that helps soften it up a bit. As is though, I can't even bounce on the rear of the car with my full weight (240lbs) and get
the rear end to move.
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What size 944 bars are you using? I have 23.5 in my sons bug, same as Type 3 wagon, they help but could be stiffer.
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mactaylor
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| posted on August 18th, 2013 at 07:37 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hellbugged
Jeff works out in his head the % increase of stiffness with increasing bar diameter.... It's pretty cool to witness (60th birthday slipped past
yesterday)
Ben Durie commented last time watching the notch, that it was dropping too low.... Surprised that it already had 29mm
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Hi mate Whats the notch weigh
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on August 18th, 2013 at 11:28 AM |
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I have not seen the exact number, but it's not lightened at all really
If it's not the full ton it would be into the 900's at the very least
Heavy wheels, bracings, kombi box, radiators..... Not to mention the lump in the back
I'm imagining similar to steves bug with it's fiberglass components but full street trim
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mactaylor
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| posted on August 18th, 2013 at 04:33 PM |
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Thanks mate. Steve if squatting is reducing your front end grip then bigger bars are the go, So prob needs 28mm short or 30mm long, Well thats my
prediction if its gunna get punted hard. was watching some Khana cars today and it makes me happy that we have the best of both worlds with our humble
little dubs!
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on August 18th, 2013 at 08:01 PM |
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Hi
My car weighed in at 1080 kgs, it maybe slightly more now.
I'm stuck using short bars as put a gearbox where the long bars would normally sit.
I was getting some under steer at Wakefield, heavier rear bars should help with that.
Steve
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mactaylor
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| posted on August 19th, 2013 at 03:29 PM |
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Maybe one of the hillclimb boys might chime in or maybe greg or paul zanello, these dudes have way to much experience, they prob hang out in the AC
side of things to much! GIRLS!
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PAZZAN
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| posted on August 19th, 2013 at 04:34 PM |
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this will be hard ,nice road car or fast race car 
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on August 20th, 2013 at 07:43 AM |
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Found this Stevie!
I've emailed the owner to see where he got the body from, very cool!
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on August 20th, 2013 at 07:45 AM |
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on August 20th, 2013 at 08:31 AM |
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Hi
Jak that's a cool RC car I would be interested to find out more about getting a shell like that one.
Paul my car is way to heavy to be a race car but the rear torsion bar strength is an issue, you can feel the rear squat down on the street, its like
driving a boat the way the back sinks down and the front rises.
Steve
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Camo
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| posted on August 20th, 2013 at 08:46 AM |
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Steve,
you gave us a little tease a week or so ago with one photo of your fat rear end, I personally would like to see more with the new paint job please.
Kev
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Flintstones
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| posted on August 20th, 2013 at 01:56 PM |
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Steve, have you thought about using coilovers in the rear?
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vlad01
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| posted on August 20th, 2013 at 02:06 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by mactaylor
| Quote: | Originally
posted by hellbugged
Jeff works out in his head the % increase of stiffness with increasing bar diameter.... It's pretty cool to witness (60th birthday slipped past
yesterday)
Ben Durie commented last time watching the notch, that it was dropping too low.... Surprised that it already had 29mm
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Hi mate Whats the notch weigh
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stock notch weighs just over a metric ton. 1035kg to be exact for late early is rumored to be 980kg ? but I can't say that figure is right or not.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on August 20th, 2013 at 02:14 PM |
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Hi
I've been giving coil overs some thought but the issue that I have is the axle is very close to the shock body because I've moved everything forward
so much.
Camo, missus is on the warpath so im doing what I'm told and not touching the car much, I've just been assembling doors etc
Steve
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OZ Towdster
A.k.a.: Andrew Westwood
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| posted on August 20th, 2013 at 07:05 PM |
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Ah it's all good Steve ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, we've all been there , and respect the golden rule of "happy wife happy life ".
Seriously though i would have thought that short bars would make the rear end fairly stiff , some of it is not just shockies is it ???
Andrew
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
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Joel
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| posted on August 20th, 2013 at 08:12 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
early is rumored to be 980kg ? but I can't say that figure is right or not.
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880kg 
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1303Steve
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| posted on August 20th, 2013 at 08:31 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by OZ Towdster
Ah it's all good Steve ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, we've all been there , and respect the golden rule of "happy wife happy life ".
Seriously though i would have thought that short bars would make the rear end fairly stiff , some of it is not just shockies is it ???
Andrew
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Hi
I also thought short 26 bars would have been on the heavy side, I'm running 944 Konis, I've tried full hard and full soft, it still sinks under
power.
You can see in these photos how it sags under power.
My dad is a twin, were having his 85th birthday this weekend and his sister and my cousins are staying at our place so all the jobs I've been putting
off are being done whether I like it or not.
Its a funny story, my dads name is Jack and his sister is Jill, 85 year Jack & Jill
Steve
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ian.mezz
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| posted on August 21st, 2013 at 11:02 AM |
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vlad01
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| posted on August 21st, 2013 at 11:07 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
early is rumored to be 980kg ? but I can't say that figure is right or not.
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880kg
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I seen other figures too including that one. Let me see what I find in my VW operator manuals.
seems vw ball parked a lot of figures with the type 3. Especially the EFI models, different vw literature sated different specs for some of the same
stuff.
interesting how they state on your pic the weight with driver for the SB but without for the sedan?
EDIT.
got a wheels road test, fastback. doesn't state the year but judging by the colour and IRS rear its a late model, at least 69. some BS weight
measurement cwt? anyway got 780 or 883kg.? sounds wrong either way
Then in my VW owner's manual its states unladen weight is 1010kg for fastback and 1035kg for square from 70 on.
69. models state 960kg across all body types.
67. 920kg for sedans, 950kg for square
65. 910kg for sedan, 1025kg for square.
ect etc...
I would take that the official owner manual would be the most accurate.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/type3.php
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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OZ Towdster
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| posted on August 21st, 2013 at 06:24 PM |
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Yes but most VW based shockies are valved for bugger all dampning on compresion and are more active on the rebound , but with your car you probabley
need both mabey ????
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
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 matberry
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| posted on August 21st, 2013 at 06:51 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by OZ Towdster
Yes but most VW based shockies are valved for bugger all dampning on compresion and are more active on the rebound , but with your car you probabley
need both mabey ????
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Not just VW shocks but all shocks are valved this way to decrease the impact of bumps into the car (except maybe some offroad racing shocks). Shocks
are a dampening device and will not effect the squat your experiencing Steve, only the springs/torsions will change it (or radical suspension
design/geometery mods)
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on August 21st, 2013 at 08:49 PM |
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Hi
This is a crappy photo that shows how close the axle comes to the shock body.
LA Performance in the UK do a coil over shock that might work, he can make them to any specifications so I'm sure 944 would be no trouble.
The 944 rear shocks are very similar to IRS Beetle ones but use a larger M14 bottom bolt.
968 Porsches with the M30 option use a coil over helper spring, but a pair of shocks is $650 Us plus shipping without coils and top mount
Nice chatting to you tonight Damo and thanks for the info.
Steve
ps thanks for all the input guys
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matberry
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| posted on August 21st, 2013 at 09:19 PM |
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My 2c is just go bigger bars, I ran 30mm shorts on stock IRS arms in my old baja in the 80's (ie no body work and air cooled), IMO 28 is still too
small with all that weight out the rear.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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lou0060
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| posted on August 21st, 2013 at 09:51 PM |
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Ian's car looks as if it's about to wheel stand!
Steve, I get hardly any squat on mine even under full boost. I am running short 30mm and also a pretty heavy Whiteline rear sway bar which holds it
all very tight. Ok for a track car but finding a balance for road use will be a difficult task. At least you have a short sump, I'm still running
the stock sump. And if you find that RC body, I'll have one too, it's cool!
1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising 
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust 
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief 
1960 beetle - old school low & slow  |
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on August 21st, 2013 at 10:42 PM |
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A good option is to fit the largest bars first.....then "turn them down" on a lathe if the spring rate needs to be altered. Its easy to remove
material, but you can't add to a torsion bar 
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on August 22nd, 2013 at 07:48 AM |
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rc body
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/380672254557?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=...
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Pickpocket
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| posted on August 23rd, 2013 at 04:58 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Pickpocket
I'm curious how those bars will work also. I installed a set of 944 bars in mine and it feels awful stiff, but I don't have the engine or anything
in it yet so hopefully that helps soften it up a bit. As is though, I can't even bounce on the rear of the car with my full weight (240lbs) and get
the rear end to move.
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What size 944 bars are you using? I have 23.5 in my sons bug, same as Type 3 wagon, they help but could be stiffer.
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I didn't measure them before I put them in. I just know they're the stock bars that would go into my old '87 944 (N/A, not turbo).
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on August 23rd, 2013 at 09:08 AM |
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Hi
They should be 23.5, that's base size for standard type 944s. Its the same size as Type 3 wagon bars which are a factory upgrade over standard IRS
Beetle bars.
Steve
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