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 reub
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| posted on January 4th, 2007 at 12:13 AM |
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Spewin I didn't get a chance to drop in yesterday to say hi Wayne....ran out of time.
Ah well, always next time...
Reub
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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 posted on January 9th, 2007 at 10:34 PM |
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ON THE DYNO ON THURSDAY
Well the oval is all back together .
The transmission is working well .
The clutch is hooking up smoothly .
The larger 759cc injectors have been fitted and I had to pull 15% of fuel of the microtec map just to make it run smoothly .
The wastegate spring has been changed from the 7psi to the 14psi so that the boost setting now on low boost is 14psi and the high boost setting can be
adjusted anywhere up to 28psi .
I have test driven the oval and it runs really straight !!
When I first test drove the oval I thought that I was suffering massive clutch slippage from a standing start and felt that the clutch was hooking up
at the top of 1st gear (8200rpm) and no slippage was detected after that through any other gears or gear changes , but this wasn't the case . With
around 320bhp on low boost , the oval is wheelspining and leaving 2 dark black lines up the bitumen around 30ft long . That new 3.33 1st gear with the
3.44 ring & pinion certianly is much taller than my previous gearing .
The oval goes onto the dyno at SOUTH COAST ROTARY PERFORMANCE AND DYNO-TUNE on thursday morning . I can't wait and will post info on the outcome
.......... I wonder how close to 400bhp at the rear wheels we can go ?
Team 
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
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| posted on January 10th, 2007 at 08:42 AM |
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Hats off to you wayne for getting those numbers - I look forward to seeing the outcome of the dyno session!
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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 posted on January 11th, 2007 at 10:37 PM |
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DYNO SESSION COMPLETED AND ALL IS WELL
Today I had the oval at SOUTH COAST ROTARY for the dyno tune session and all went well .
We didn't get too much more horsepower as we up the boost to 19psi but the torque figures once again skyrocketed .
We did try to put more boost into the oval but we think that we may have a minor problem with the exhaust pressure forcing the wastegate open , still
not sure though as we will have to look into it later .
The horsepower reading on low boost (14psi) came in at 298bhp . This is down quite a bit from the last dyno session at 14psi , but this I expected as
I have gone much taller in diff ratio which alters the loss between engine horsepower and rear wheel horsepower .
The horsepower reading on high boost (19psi) came in at a very healthy 335bhp with a massive 1450lbs of tractive effort in torque . The torque reading
is up by 200lbs from 1250lbs at the last dyno session .
The oval is on the trailer and I leave for Heathcote in Victoria tomorrow morning early . Hope to see a few Veedubbers from down south attend the
meet , and hope we get a few entered also .
[ Edited on 11-1-07 by hypo-vw ]
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Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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reub
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| posted on January 11th, 2007 at 10:46 PM |
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Look forward to hearing how it all goes for your Wayne.
Good luck with it all.
Would love to see some video footage....please...
Reub
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humpty
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| posted on January 11th, 2007 at 10:52 PM |
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Damn Wayne.... Impressive numbers for sure.... The Shoptalk felas are gonna lose the plot!... Best of luck at Heathcote.... Nick has been very quiet
of late.... Do you know if he's gonna make it there?.... Be good to see you guys run together.....
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on January 11th, 2007 at 11:16 PM |
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Care to divulge a little tuning info?
I'd be interested to know what ignition advance your running at 19lb boost and what the current compression ratio is. Your not using an intercooler
either are you? Also, what fuel was that run on?
Granted a vw engine is not an import engine, but the last SR20DET i tuned running 20lb made 325rwhp using 550cc injectors at 43psi static fuel
pressure, with 30 degree air temps and 11.8:1 AFR. I'm guessing your running your fuel a lot fatter than that if you'd maxed out the 550 earlier
and had to step up to 760's.
The ignition advance was 18 degrees on the SR20. I'm guessing your running around the 15 degree mark if your using 98 octane fuel?
Cheers,
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Spellbound
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| posted on January 12th, 2007 at 08:58 AM |
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That Bug is AWESOME Wayne. You must be stoked with the performance figures so far. Good luck down at Heathcote...will be following closely to see
what sort of numbers you come back with.
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Flintstones
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| posted on January 12th, 2007 at 06:50 PM |
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Awesome numbers there Wayne
Bring on the 10's :thumb
Cheers
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VWFREAK
A.k.a.: Peter / Bones
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| posted on January 12th, 2007 at 10:03 PM |
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You get Crazier by the day Wayne, I don't know how you find the time and Lisa lets you get away with it.
Talk soon
Peter
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on January 15th, 2007 at 12:37 AM |
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WE DID IT !! AUSTRALIAS 1ST 10sec STREETER
First and most importantly I must thank my crew for all the support and assistance with the oval . My father , Allan . My son , Dean . My good mate ,
Chris Bolton . Kevin @ South Coast Rotary . Without the help from these guys on the weekend , the oval may have been back on the trailer after the
first run and they also did some fine video footage which we will edit and post for you to enjoy .
Well , what an eventful weekend we had . Left on Friday morning for Heathcote in Victoria for the Sport Compact Series round 2 / Summer Slam . Had a
great trip down there with the only issue being the exhaust system on dads Toyota Lexcen decided to break open after 170,000ks .
We arrived at Bendigo and stayed the night at a beautiful little motel at had a gorgeous steak at the pub 2 doors away for dinner .
Up bright and early saturday morning and down to the local exhaust shop to have the system changed on dads car . I couldn't believe it , we unhooked
the trailer to put the Lexcen into the exhaust shop and 11 minutes later the exhaust fitter drove the lexcen back out complete with new centre and
rear mufflers . What great service we received .
It was into the town centre for breakfast and then out to the track . Heathcote dragway was only 25ks / 15mins out of town .
Unloaded the oval at the track and had it scrutineered , then all the final checks before racing .
1st run - 1.89 60 foot
7.72 660 foot @ 96.82mph
12.68 ET @ 84mph (19psi boost)
The oval left the line with heaps of wheel spin in both 1st and 2nd gears . The engine misfired and backfired all the way down the strip . I couldn't
believe that it was running so bad after being on the dyno just 2 days earlier .
There was a lot of harsh noises in the oval when shifting into 4th gear and I backed out of it . When I slowed down the engine was rattling heavily .
I managed to crawl back to the pits to check the noises .
Number 3 cylinder inlet valve had broken a lashcap and the valve had excessive clearance . I was unable to get another lashcap so the decision was
made to turn the tappet screw in till we had Zero clearance . I knew that this was going to completely wreck the titanium valve .
2nd run- 1.61 60 foot
6.91 660 foot @ 98.9mph
11.09 ET @ 108.02mph (19psi boost)
The oval left the line better but the engine still misfired all the way down the strip and the harsh banging noises was still in the car when shifting
into 4th gear , so I once again backed out of it .
I went back to the pits and couldn't find anything wrong with the oval . So I decided to run it again to try to diagnose the problem . Nick (boostn)
helped out with some trackside advise and thought that the engine was running too rich .
3rd run- 1.70 60 foot
7.16 660 foot @ 101.31mph
11.17 ET @ 115.09mph (19psi boost)
The oval was still misfiring and the horrible noises reoccured in 4th gear . The tappet started to rattle badly again . Dad and I suspected that the
heads were lifting at the high boost setting .
Back to the pits , off with all the rockers , retension both heads , reassemble and adjust all tappets . ( while lying on my back in the dirt and
20kph winds )
Uncertain of whether the engine was running rich or lean , I opted for the safe option and added 3% more fuel to the microtec map .
4th run- 1.80 60 foot
7.23 660 foot @105.34mph
11.02 ET @131.50mph (19psi boost)
The engine appeared to misfire worse than before , but this time I kept the boot into it to see if it was going to clear . I achieved my highest top
speed on this run for the meeting .
Back to the pits I go . Nick and I have another discussion on the fuel situation and I decide this time to deduct 5% fuel from the microtec map . I
also decided to run the oval on low boost to see if this helped .
5th run- 1.56 60 foot
6.69 660 foot @ 106.01
10.49 ET @ 129.68mph (14psi boost)
HOLY SHIT !! didn't that wake the oval up . It felt strong from start to finish and did not misfire once . The oval left the line real hard and
headed for the wall on my right . I make a minor correction while changing gears and then the oval heads for the centreline . Another correction sees
the oval make a clean pass . From the incar footage I can see the speedo at 55mph when I change to 2nd . Then the speedo goes past 80mph as I change
to 3rd and from there the needle is jammed hard against the zero stop . The tacho can be seen going past the 8000rpm mark on more than one occasion .
What a handful the oval suddenly became , especially in the braking area . Fortunately I was on a solo run as the oval crossed the centreline and I
used both lanes to slow the oval while I was fighting to keep it under control after the finish-line .
6th run- 1.79 60 foot
6.03 660 foot @ 85.16mph
12.42 ET @ 22.26mph (14psi boost)
I made a great launch in 1st gear and then shifted straight to 4th . The clutch slipped terribly . I backed out of it as it was the final and there
was no way that I was going to catch Morgan Smith after I missed a gear .
Congratulations to morgan and his crew of helpers for a job well done . Their car ran so consistantly all day , they earned the win .
It was a real pleasure to meet a few of the AVD members down there . Rhet ( PHATBUG ) , James (VWFASTBACK) and a sincere thankyou to a valued friend
for your assistance and support , Nick (BOOSTN) .
[ Edited on 14-1-07 by hypo-vw ]
[ Edited on 15-1-07 by hypo-vw ]
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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Beetspeed
A.k.a.: Walter
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| posted on January 15th, 2007 at 02:50 AM |
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Wow!!
Many congrets from the other side of the world!
10.49 with a type 4 in a full bodied car is awesome!!
Walter
'75 1303 'Renner' 2.2 T4 turbo
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PHAT BUG
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| posted on January 15th, 2007 at 04:39 AM |
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What an awesome day, it was great to see the run in person.
the car is a credit to you Wayne, all the hard work paying off. Again Congatulations.
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on January 15th, 2007 at 05:45 AM |
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Great report Wayne!
Sounds like that thing will have a run soon with a nine at the begining!?
My calculations say that with no miss, and with the 19 psi setting it will run at least 136mph.
That is a solid 9 second pass.
Bring it on!
[ Edited on 14-1-2007 by dangerous ]
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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fullnoise
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| posted on January 15th, 2007 at 09:25 PM |
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Congrats
Nice one Wayne. Not just for the time at the track but the whole process.
I'd prefer to be beaten by your oval than your tow car any day!
CYA CT
esratrams
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Dak-A-Tak
A.k.a.: Peter Page
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| posted on January 15th, 2007 at 09:54 PM |
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WOW & WOW again Wayne .Good to see you had one , clean run!
Great!!! another 10sec car in Ussie land.I like the half track time (6.69 et 106mph )Bit more track time will make
you fill better behide the wheel !! Wayne.
Bring on the Video footage !Guys !
Looks like a few safety (ANDRA ) things to come .Don't let these things slow you down ,Wayne .
Good - one Mate!!!!!!!!!!!!
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on January 15th, 2007 at 10:45 PM |
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BANGING MYSTERY SOLVED ??
Firstly thanks guys for all of the encouraging remarks .
Well I had a discussion with Kevin @ SOUTH COAST ROTARY today to try and determine what all of the banging noises may have been in the oval whilst in
4th gear , and he is very confident that the oval was trying to develop more boost that we had planned it to .
The boost-cut map is a circuit in the microtec that prevents the engine from overboosting and cuts power to the injectors at a preset level . When we
had the oval on the dyno , we set the high boost at 19psi and set the boost-cut at 21psi .
He assures me that the oval was trying to produce more boost under load than the preset level which caused the engine to violently cut in and out of
the boost-cut map causing the excessive noises and vibrations . He has experienced this in the past , but wasn't there on saturday to assist due to a
back injury that prevented him from travelling .This will also explain why it did not occur when I selected the low boost setting of 14psi .
Next time out we will turn the boost-cut off and rely more on the wastegate to protect from overboosting .
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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humpty
Bishop of Volkswagenism
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| posted on January 15th, 2007 at 11:05 PM |
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Inspirational stuff....
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Boostn
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| posted on January 15th, 2007 at 11:16 PM |
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That makes sense Wayne, didn't think of that but I never use that option.
Microtechs tend to spike here and there on the map sensor. If you plan to run 19-20 psi you always tune way past just in case it pick up another value
there is no problem. Even when I do aspirated map tunes I always put a value in at 2 psi because if I don't it sometimes has a miss.
They are still a good computer though.
VOLLKOMMEN ART
nick@vollkommenart.com
Speed and Style
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Flintstones
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| posted on January 15th, 2007 at 11:25 PM |
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Sensational stuff Wayne!!
Fantastic acheivement throughout the whole build process to date.
Can't wait to see the oval run at WSID.
Cheers
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on January 16th, 2007 at 07:45 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hypo-vw
Firstly thanks guys for all of the encouraging remarks .
Well I had a discussion with Kevin @ SOUTH COAST ROTARY today to try and determine what all of the banging noises may have been in the oval whilst in
4th gear , and he is very confident that the oval was trying to develop more boost that we had planned it to .
The boost-cut map is a circuit in the microtec that prevents the engine from overboosting and cuts power to the injectors at a preset level . When we
had the oval on the dyno , we set the high boost at 19psi and set the boost-cut at 21psi .
He assures me that the oval was trying to produce more boost under load than the preset level which caused the engine to violently cut in and out of
the boost-cut map causing the excessive noises and vibrations . He has experienced this in the past , but wasn't there on saturday to assist due to a
back injury that prevented him from travelling .This will also explain why it did not occur when I selected the low boost setting of 14psi .
Next time out we will turn the boost-cut off and rely more on the wastegate to protect from overboosting .
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Turbosmart gated boost controlers are prone to causing boost spikes. They are generally stable to about 14lb but after that the boost spikes get
larger and larger. Ive seen spikes up to 4-5lb when trying to regulate to 20lb boost on imports.
The only option is to switch to an eboost and use twin port gate control. You then set your primary boost pressure, and a secondary value called gate
pressure that allows you to set an over boost factor to a degree, and allow the boost to come on faster.
You could run heavier wastegate springs too, but that means loosing your "streetability".
I don't know if the microtech lets you do it, but with some ecu's you can allow overboosting to occur for programmable amount of seconds too. You
might be able to tweak these settings to allow the overboost to happen, and just wait a little longer before going into protection mode. Afterall the
idea of it is to protect against a hose off the wastegate actuator scenario, which it would still do just fine.
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tassupervee
A.k.a.: Knob Jockey
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| posted on January 16th, 2007 at 11:04 AM |
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Excellent stuff M8.
However, reading thru the report I find a very disturbing section that deals with adding and subtracting fuel based on banging and missfiring.
This kind of hit and miss trackside adjustment can result in a grenaded engine if the adjustment was done one way based on what you could "hear" and
what was actually happening.
Case in point. many years ago when I was racing 250cc superkarts, one of the guys has an RM250 Suzuki powered kart.
This thing was running well and using a 1.87mm main jet but the owner "reckoned he heard" a slight missfiring at WOT.
So, he blithely replace the main jet going from 1.87mm down to 1.60mm as the thought the missfire was from too rich.
No plug cuts, nothing, just what he heard.
Off he goes and grenades the engine half a lap out from the pits..................
Head off reveals the majority of the piston crown melted and blown off. Even the plug electrodes were melted, this after less than half a lap!
Now, these engine produce in the vicinity of 300Hp/litre.
Now, on a forced engine with the money you have unloaded and the potential of this thing, I cannot believe you guys have not added a wide band EGO
sensor into the turbo dump and a decent calibrated EGO readout/logger (Innovate, to name one, less that 400 dollars)
This would have revealed your fuelling "problem" immediately (if there actually was one) and could have prevented a nasty detonation that might have
seriously ruined your day even further than a buggered unobtanium valve top.
This is precisely the clobber your tuner used to tune your engine on the dyno in the first place.
You guys are playing in a serious league here and so should forget about cheaper narrow band EGO's and digital readouts. Spend your money now and
possibly save shitloads later. Especially on expensive dyno pulls to set EGO's
Food for thought.
Best of luck guys and congrats.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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sub60
A.k.a.: mike
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| posted on January 16th, 2007 at 04:53 PM |
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Your right Wayne, a very interesting read. But for me an extremely informative and unselfishly informative write up from you. Some find fault with
things they cannot do themselves, makes them feel better? All the best
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on January 16th, 2007 at 05:17 PM |
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It depends on the ECU but some do a fuel cut, others do an ignition cut, but the goal is to protect the engine from overboosting.
Keep in mind that boosted engines typically running in the area of 12-11.5:1 AFR's when on boost, so cutting fuel 100% isn't going to hurt anything.
Sudden deceleration and loosing control of the car as a result is a bigger worry.
Also you might be interested in knowing that my PLX devices wideband AFR that uses a Bosch LSU4.2 sensor (used by inovate and most others), displays
lean AFR's when my MSD 2 step comes into play with my skylines anti-lag/launch control system. When infact its not lean because at the 20lb boost map
point its running 11.8:1, AND on antilag its also getting an additional 12% fuel too. I suspect its due to the exhaust gas temps being quite higher
than normal.
What i'm trying to say is that one extra gauge with an AFR probably isn't the answer, and when the car's doing 10's at 128mph your eyes are best
on the track. A BIG RED WARNING light linked to an output on the ecu that triggers under certain conditions like overboost and lean AFR's would be
better as it could be kept in your peripheral vision like a shift light.
Just my opinion...
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cjbolt51
A.k.a.: chris
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| posted on January 16th, 2007 at 07:00 PM |
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Well done again mate, it was a great weekend with a great end result & a pleasure to watch.... VERY INSPIRING, Can't wait for Warick
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
Veteran Volks Folk
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| posted on January 16th, 2007 at 10:42 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by iswinkels
when the car's doing 10's at 128mph your eyes are best on the track
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Very well put Ian . I have in the oval a 5" tacho with shift light , 2 head temperature guages , oil pressure guage , oil temperature guage , fuel
pressure guage , exhaust temperature guage , boost guage , and a volts guage .
With all this hardware it should be easy to diagnose what the problem is , but you must first look at the guages .
I had 6 runs at Heatcote and I never once saw any of the guages . It wasn't until late saturday night that we viewed the in-car footage at the motel
, only then to discover that the shift light wasn't working . 6 runs and I didn't even notice the shift light as I was so busy at the wheel .
4 gears in 10 seconds over 400 metres at 130mph certainly goes bloody fast !!
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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Boostn
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 657
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| posted on January 17th, 2007 at 01:55 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sub60 Some find fault with things they cannot do themselves, makes them feel better? All the best
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VERY WELL PUT !!!
some people need to realise that when you dyno an engine that makes this much power the dyno guy should always tune on the safe side to set up a basic
map.
And some people need to realise that every dyno is different, every dyno tuner is different, altitude changes, the wind makes a difference and so
on..............
So basically what I am trying to say is that you are always going to have to play with the tune up at the track.
Also if people out there know anything about C16, they will know that it has a smaller window to tune in than unleaded.
Wayne you did really well on the day and I don't think some people understand how fast everything is happening and as you know you are happy just to
keep it off the walls.LOL
VOLLKOMMEN ART
nick@vollkommenart.com
Speed and Style
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
Veteran Volks Folk
Australias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132mph street tyres
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| posted on January 17th, 2007 at 07:01 AM |
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| Quote: | I don't think some
people understand how fast everything is happening and as you know you are happy just to keep it off the walls.LOL
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Dean and I are currently putting together a video of the oval on the day which includes in-car footage . Maybe when they see this or even Nicks in-car
footage they might get more of an idea that total concentration is required and the eyes dont leave the track .
What through me on the day was the fact that just 2 days earlier I had the oval on the dyno and set up perfectly with air/fuels of 11.8 on full
throttle at 19psi boost . Kevin had set the tune already on the safe side (rich) and had made a comment to me that the harder he revved the engine the
more boost it makes , so when I had the problems at the track I didn't even realise that the boost cut had been turned on . On the dyno he was
revving the engine to around 6000rpm whilst the in-car footage shows the tacho in the vicinity of 8500rpm at some stages .
I have raced with this engine now since 2000 and had many dyno sessions both N/A and Turbo . Every other time the oval has been set up I have gone to
the track whether it be local or interstate or high in altitude , and run without problems ( usually winning the event in record time ) This was the
very first time that the altitude affected my tune and now I understand why . As Nick explained , there is a much smaller window for tune with C-16
fuel . And as far as the adjustments made , we always add more fuel first as the engine has far less chance of incurring any damage with too much fuel
, then start to lean it off carefully until you reach the desired results .
[ Edited on 16-1-07 by hypo-vw ]
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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tassupervee
A.k.a.: Knob Jockey
Custom Title Time!
That really hurts doesnt it!
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| posted on January 17th, 2007 at 08:57 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hypo-vw
This was the very first time that the altitude affected my tune and now I understand why . As Nick explained , there is a much smaller window for
tune with C-16 fuel .
[ Edited on 16-1-07 by hypo-vw ]
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Precisely my point and all the more reason to look at this kind of clobber.
Im not and never suggesting yet another guage to try and scope whilst running down the strip with your hair on fire! Shit no!
Im suggesting simple LOGGING of the AFR data for evaluation between runs.
Im sure there has been no dramas to date which is very cool but, theres a first time and logging EGO's can expose a drama that might otherwise go
unnoticed and result in a DNF and at your level, possibly a very expensive one.
A leaking FPR boost sense line.
A lazy EFI pump/wiring
A dodgey inlet air temp sensor and so-on can contribute to, or result in a dangerous leaning of AFR's that you would never know of until the engine
grenaded.
This is my point, not the addition of another stupid dial to distract you on the run which seems to be the center of the rebuttal.
Knowing exactly what your AFR's are doing each and every run takes ANY guesswork out of fuelling adjustments.
Its not a replacement for dyno time, its an worthy addition to it.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on January 17th, 2007 at 09:40 PM |
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Not that i'm taking the piss, but have you ever seen High Octane 4 with the two indian guys?
"You can never have too many gauges. Look I even know what temperature your asshole is"
"don't worry mother we are only using low boost"
"Initiate second turbo! We need more boost!"
"oh no... too much boost  "
Data logging is definatly the way to go. I use my wolf data logging to record dyno runs any also 1/4 mile runs. With the recorded data you can view
the data in playback mode at realtime speed or just look at the graphs for highs and lows, while refrerencing every recorded sensor in the engine
management VS rpm. It records boost level too, but it won't show you an overboost event, it will only display it graphically so you need to work it
out from the data logger, and the min max peak logging. By "event" i mean it entered a protection mode to cut boost.
[ Edited on 17-1-2007 by iswinkels ]
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