| [ Total Views: 3397 | Total Replies: 62 | Thread Id: 102132 ] |
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 Phil74Camper
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| posted on May 24th, 2013 at 12:27 PM |
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At the end of the day, why would the giant car makers build cars here, in such a unionised, high-wage, high-expense, over-taxing country (with
additional ADR requirements that Europe doesn't have), when they can manufacture in China?
Volkswagen already has no less than TEN different factories in China:
http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/the_group/production_pl...
VW recently began constructing another factory, at Changsha, which alone will have a capacity of 300,000 vehicles a year (more than the entire
Australian motor industry). Volkswagen plans to manufacture 4 million vehicles a year in China by 2018.
http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/info_center/en/news/2013/05/VW_Cha...
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65standard
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| posted on May 24th, 2013 at 12:29 PM |
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The government shouldn't prop up the car industry by GIVING them money, as the car companies will not spend wisely.
The government should have looked at the Obama model and LOANED the money to the companies to be repaid, or that the government has say x-amount stake
in the company equivalent to its loan amount. That is investment. Instead, this mob of imbeciles have thrown billions at the car industry, and all to
no avail other than to throw us further into debt. One question to be asked, and obviously hasn't been, is "Where the hell has all that
money gone?"
If anyone ran a business the way this country has been run, you would have had to file for bankruptcy and never been allowed to be in charge of
another business, yet these clowns want to be re-elected. Put out the rubbish on 14 September for collection on 15 September!!!
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[size=4]If it ain't broke, fix it till it is![/size]
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65standard
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| posted on May 24th, 2013 at 12:50 PM |
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Here's what Holden has to say about the incoming government:
"The Coalition's stated policy is to refer auto assistance matters to the Productivity Commission from 2015 and remove $500 million from a $1.5
billion Labor support fund in the meantime.
Mr Weatherill today said he was working with Holden to ensure it remained in Adelaide until 2022 and failure to support it with taxpayer funds would
result in closure."
They want taxpayer funds, then the government should have a say as to how that money will be spent, or set up loan repayments as anyone needing money
would have to have. Loan repaid over a period of time, or when the company shuts shop, government is the first in line to get its money back.
http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/holden-pleads-for-help-as-ford-clos...
[size=4]If it ain't broke, fix it till it is![/size]
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Joel
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| posted on May 24th, 2013 at 12:51 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
why have people gone for SUVs?
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It's so all these Soccer mums can still feel safe driving like f'king idiots and hurt other people instead of themselves and their kids when it all
goes wrong.
My old workshop was across the road from the local towies holding yard and the amount of tipped over 4x4s that came in because they have been driven
too fast through a corner/roundabout was a joke.
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vlad01
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| posted on May 24th, 2013 at 09:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
why have people gone for SUVs?
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It's so all these Soccer mums can still feel safe driving like f'king idiots and hurt other people instead of themselves and their kids when it all
goes wrong.
My old workshop was across the road from the local towies holding yard and the amount of tipped over 4x4s that came in because they have been driven
too fast through a corner/roundabout was a joke.
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you know whats grinds my gears, always the people in territory thats are the worst, 95% of territory drivers speed and tail gate you. every time some
bastard is up my rear, i look, surprise surprise a territory. 
them mostly out of all SUV drivers out there.
just look at this s#it.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
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| posted on May 25th, 2013 at 06:15 AM |
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The guy on the quad must have been tailgating also.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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Carl and Emily
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| posted on May 25th, 2013 at 07:48 AM |
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Geeze Vlad, that picture!!!
You've just put me off from going for a drive in my dub.
I'm going to stay here at home under my rock nice and safe.
I can see that the owner of the VL loved it. RIP commodore.
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donn
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| posted on May 25th, 2013 at 07:50 AM |
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You know whats grinds MY gears, people who think that other people who are disposed to tailgaiting and / or speeding automaticaly run out and buy a
particular type of vehicle, I'd like to see a survey done to see just what type of vehicles are involved in rear enders, reckon it would cover a vast
range of models, makes and drivers. Oh and one other thing, I realy hate it when people grind their gears, if you can't select a gear without
grinding then you need to have your clutch adjusted or replaced and if that dosn't rectify the situation then buy a car with an aouto box, but please
not a Territoty.  
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!
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Joel
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| posted on May 25th, 2013 at 08:21 AM |
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Damn hopefully that isnt a real Walky and only a replica 
Gotta laugh at that ride-on through the tail gate of the territory, what kind of moron doesnt tie that shit down, oh yeah that moron.
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vlad01
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| posted on May 25th, 2013 at 08:19 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
Damn hopefully that isnt a real Walky and only a replica
Gotta laugh at that ride-on through the tail gate of the territory, what kind of moron doesnt tie that shit down, oh yeah that moron.
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those kind of people that buy those kinds of cars.
always those, and thats why there is stereotypes for a reason.
also I get crap from tradies driving utes, its like they own the place.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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vwo60
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| posted on May 25th, 2013 at 09:23 PM |
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How dose Germany have a higher GDP than China, have high wages, high standard of living and and a high cost of living, but still support the rest of
the EU, they have a large hi-tech manufacturing base that exports the best in the world, maybe they have a different attitude, government should not
support businesses that cannot make it alone, survival of the fittest.
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waveman1500
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| posted on May 25th, 2013 at 10:44 PM |
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Germany is in a much better position for manufacturing than Australia, because they have a much larger population and they are perfectly located
smack-bang in the centre of Western Europe, conveniently connected by road, rail and sea to over 500 million potential consumers in an area smaller
than Australia (the EU).
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vwo60
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| posted on May 26th, 2013 at 09:06 AM |
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So are a lot of other countries are close tp Germany in the EU that have failed ecomonies, Australia is run by a lot of short sighted pollies, weither
they are liberal or labour, career pollies that need to be replaced by people with real world experence, Germany might be in a better location but
Australia has better natural resourse's that should be used to support local manufacturing, instead it's export it for a quick return. at least we
will have a large tourist market when the dollar drops.
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VolksVair
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| posted on May 26th, 2013 at 03:06 PM |
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why have people gone for SUVs? I just can't see the logic other than feeding ones own ego.
One of my cars is a bloody big Chev suburban, dont think towing a 3 ton boat or tandem trailer with a Kombi on the back with a smaller vehicle would
be safe or legal. Horses for courses, I enjoy my other small cars but that big 8 ltr motor pulls harder than a 14 year old and will pass
anything on the road,
except a service station!!
Adventure Before Dimentia
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bus914
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| posted on May 26th, 2013 at 03:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by h
| Quote: | Originally
posted by bus914
I think its time for government owned car manufacturing. Sounds like the tax payer was taking all the business risk at Ford anyway. Maybe shipbuilding
next. We have the resources.
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a government in business, so..
a loaf of bread will be cheaper than a bag of flour if that's the case
= epic fail
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Maybe then we could export cars and be competitive on price. And whoever inflates the price of flour would have to suck it up and be competitive too.
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tweety
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| posted on May 26th, 2013 at 05:00 PM |
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I think it was nedstar that said "feel sorry ofr the workers". Well yes, there is a case for feeling sorry for them- of course. But not as sorry
as I feel for self employed workers.
Many years ago privatisation came. Cleaners, telco workers, all sorts of professions went private. Contractor filled the need where a Govt worker
once worked. A slightly higher hourly rate did not compensate for paying ones own super, fuel, cars etc etc
In 2004 I was self employed (as I am now) in the insurance industry. Had I been in the same industry in the 1970's I would have worked in Govt. In
2004 there was a downturn in my industry. I had no warning. It wasnt until 6 weeks later of no work that I was forced in desperation, to seek my
security license and get a job in security at Puckapunyal Army base.
Note 1/ the Ford workers have 3.5 years warning.
As I'm self employed I didnt get any redundancy payout
Note 2/ Ford workers will receive a handsome handshake
As a self employed worker the Federal Govt didt throw 40 million dollars into my local community in extra funds to prop up the jobs situation.
Note 3/ The Govt pledged 40 million dollars to the geelong and Broadmeadows communities.
How many Ford workers will embark on retraining in the next 3.5 years. How many will enter night school next term? I'd suggest very few.
I'm not Ford worker bashing, I'm cheesed off because much of the workforce is now self employed and no one helps us in a time of need. One further
example of this is when you apply for Newstart. As a redundant worker it is all so easy- fill in the forms and produce your redundancy letter. Self
employed persons get a heap of extra forms like profit and loss statement requests and a scrutiny over your bank statements. The magnifying glass is
strong at Centrelink on self employed workers.
Now as for Ford. IMO all car manufacturers have tried to keep up with the Jonses and not supplied us with the right machines. John Singleton in the
1980's was planning to import a jeep type vehicle into Oz that was the bare bones 4WD car. For about $10,000 (current cost) one could buy one. Top
speed 85kph, 4 cylinder diesel, soft top (hard top optional) winding windows etc. Oz standards stuffed up the plan BUT had it made it I think many
would have sold. My point is that it would have been cheap, nasty but filled a need.
Where is the $10,000 3 cylinder diesel two seat commuter car? Even with manual windows, no tacho just a speedo and warning lights that got 3
litres/100kms? There are many people commuting that would rather buy one of these than pay $20,000 for a petrol car and delay having a family or
prevent higher debt.
The modern cars are all the same fitting the same purpose. There is no out of the square thinking, no radical but practical ideas and therefore they
are in direct competition with each other. So Ford have themselves to blame for sticking to the Falcon, an uninspiring gas guzzler that is so similar
to the other 6 cylinder cars.
And finally on Government handouts to big manufacturers. Ford have stated they will not return the huge Govt funds to the Govt because they are
bringing out the last Falcon and the last Territory before shutdown. I reckon ford, in all good faith to the tax payer, should donate to the
Australian people the factories and the said land the two factories sit on. We could turn them into wind turbine factories (all are now made in
China), motorised pushbikes, solar panels etc.
- but I wont hold my breath.
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waveman1500
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| posted on May 26th, 2013 at 08:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by tweety
Where is the $10,000 3 cylinder diesel two seat commuter car? Even with manual windows, no tacho just a speedo and warning lights that got 3
litres/100kms? There are many people commuting that would rather buy one of these than pay $20,000 for a petrol car and delay having a family or
prevent higher debt.
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For $12,000 you can have a 5 door Suzuki Alto with four seats, 6 air bags, central locking, power windows and even an MP3 CD player. The Alto will do
4.5 litres/100kms on petrol (cheaper than diesel) and is much quicker and more refined than a diesel would be for that price. The modern consumer is
absolutely not willing to buy a new car without power windows and air bags. Most people who are looking for a cheap car and are happy to live with
something that basic will get a used car for under $5000.
More to the point, I don't believe it is possible to profitably build such a cheap car in Australia. The reason the local manufacturers are building
large cars is because there is more profit margin in them. Building small cars is almost as expensive as building large cars, so you have to be
extremely efficient and build in very high volumes to make money at it. India and China are both very good at doing that.
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amazeer
A.k.a.: Surly Duff
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| posted on May 26th, 2013 at 11:33 PM |
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If VW made a 4 cylinder Up they would have a winner I reckon. 55kw in a car that size is enough but the 3 cylinder is just too far out of balance. It
feels like it has a massive flywheel to try (but fail) to dampen it, but that in turn stops it from revving, and the revs dont drop when you clutch
and change gears. A lot of kit and nice drive for $16K and far better than any of the starlet/getz type rentals I have driven. The Up does sound cool
at revs. Kinda porsche flat 6 cross old holden six. Includes electric everything, sat nav, bluetooth, automatically brakes if it senses impending
crash, all the antiskid/slide/spin acronyms, hill start assist, plenty of room front and back even in the 3 door. No cruise control inexplicably.
Ford are useless and the car buying public are better off without them. I owned an EF falcon and if it was an electrical ancillary it broke. The black
paint on the wipers fell off. Sold it. Few years later gave them a second chance with a BA and the bonnet release handle broke. So many of them break
the parts guy knew the price off the top of his head. He told me I was lucky it didnt break the fuse box it attached too as well. The brakes were
shit. they warped all the time. The handbrake was a bitch to adjust and needed it regularly. Yet my base spec lancer had auto adjusting handbrake and
never needed adjusting (or shoe replacement) and it had 300,000kms. It had some weird rear end wander that nobody seemed to be able to fix. I know
someone who had a territory for work car and thought it was pretty good. He then bought one for his own personal car. Pretty soon he regretted it. If
it was made of plastic it either creaked, cracked, or fell off. Another part of their problem is they abandoned V8 racing way back. Like it or not
there are a LOT of Aussies who love their v8's and ford were racing a 4 cylinder. They lost shit loads of fans over it. If you're a holden fan you
dont buy a ford. Going back further they had the commercial market sewn up. They had a monopoly on the panel van market and dropped it. They had a
near monopoly on the station wagon fleet market because they had so much more room than the commodore. But they dropped it.
The car industry bailout is wrong. Its school halls/pink batts all over again. Instead of giving Holden and Ford buckets of money they should have
bought cars. At least then they would have got 25% of it back in 3 years when at the end of the fleet life. All they have done is ensure the safety of
the execs payout.
 
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on May 27th, 2013 at 12:05 AM |
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My Wife drives a Suzuki swift which is a great car..
owned two CE Lancers, did over 250,000 klms without any major problems.. I did replace all the shocks on the last one
I could see the rubber bits from the top shock absorbers in the boot.. lol but they were great cars..
Mother in Law bought a new ALTO as I told Her the NRMA says they were the cheapest car to own..
well, everyone who drove it didn't like the engine noise..
the 3 cylinders just didn't sound right... to anyone..
everyone who drove it hated it..
She actually took it to her [normal mechanic] just after She bought it as she thought there was something wrong with the engine.. it was
terrible..
so an UP or Mirage or Alto with 3 cylinders isn't for Me.. lol
Ford IMHO hasn't been trying to sell people anything they have wanted for many years..
Now with a FALCON with a 4 cyl or 6 cyl engine at the same price...
?????
People were after Territories with a diesel engine for years...
I also agree, ALL government cars should be Australian made..
Just reading that Hyundai X35 SUV need new brake discs and pads every 30,000 approx klms $700++ cost every 30,000 klms..
Now I bet not many new owners know about that... lol
I have read of lots of cars are now wearing all the brakes out at low klms and they are NOT covered by warranty..??
there is a good warranty clause called wear and tear that excludes most anything that wears out... whenever..
so a 5 year warranty isn't worth much.. lol
LEE
| Quote: | Originally
posted by waveman1500
[
For $12,000 you can have a 5 door Suzuki Alto with four seats, 6 air bags, central locking, power windows and even an MP3 CD player. The Alto will do
4.5 litres/100kms on petrol (cheaper than diesel) and is much quicker and more refined than a diesel would be for that price. The modern consumer is
absolutely not willing to buy a new car without power windows and air bags. Most people who are looking for a cheap car and are happy to live with
something that basic will get a used car for under $5000.
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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amazeer
A.k.a.: Surly Duff
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| posted on May 27th, 2013 at 12:53 AM |
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hmmm just reading the Up brochure. Seems I may have been wrong about sat nav being standard.
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Joel
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| posted on May 27th, 2013 at 12:01 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by waveman1500
For $12,000 you can have a 5 door Suzuki Alto with four seats, 6 air bags, central locking, power windows and even an MP3 CD player. The Alto will do
4.5 litres/100kms on petrol (cheaper than diesel) and is much quicker and more refined than a diesel would be for that price.
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Ugh you would be surprised.
Like Lee said above my ex mother in law also bought one new aswell and got rid of it at only 6 months old.
There is a good reason you don't see that many on the road, f'king horrid little cars.
All those features may look good on paper but doesnt make up for a poorly made unsafe and underpowered motorised trolley if you could call it that.
They only get that sort of fuel economy if you don't mind being overtaken by fully loaded school busses and little old ladies on mobility scooters.
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Isola
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| posted on May 27th, 2013 at 12:42 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by amazeer
hmmm just reading the Up brochure. Seems I may have been wrong about sat nav being standard.
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No. But it's only $500 extra for the satnav/blue tooth package (if you really struggle to read a $10 street directory and need a pointless toy) and
the Up! is an excellent car. If people want a cheap car and don't buy an Up! or a Fiat 500, then they didn't do their homework.
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tweety
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| posted on May 27th, 2013 at 08:20 PM |
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good points guys.
I own a Hyundai i30. done 230,000 kms. a friend has an auto done 350,000 kms. nothing major done to either car. constantly gets 5.5L/100kms thats 50
mpg I think. range 900kms plus.
I also had a 3 cylinder Suzuki Swift 1984 GA two seater. Got clocked doing 155kms in it !!! and yes, it throbbed and that was annoying.
But I think there are gaps in the vehicle fleets of cars made. Take my Proton Jumbuck. Bought it new last year, done 55,000 kms. great for firewood
etc. no power to speak of but it filled a gap in the car world like the great brumby did. Now jumbuck has ceased in Oz. there is no small ute left
for sale. All are large gas guzzling things.
A gap Frod could have filled by making a utility version of the Laser of Fiesta years ago. My Hyundai i30 diesel cut off behind the driver into a ute
would be magic. Its torque at a loe 2000 rpm is incredible and cruises like a large car.
We need however a 4WD brumby again. there is a void, a void Ford could ahve filled- all amnufacturers could have filled.
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silver
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| posted on May 27th, 2013 at 08:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
A lot of Australian companies go broke because of bad management.
Dick Smith, Harvey Norman etc. They'll be the next.
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H'mm, doubt it dick smith are owned by woolworths
Keeping it real !
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donn
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| posted on May 27th, 2013 at 09:05 PM |
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They may be owned by Woolworths but some of their stores are being or have been closed, it seems to me that they have changed way past what made them
successful at the start
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!
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amazeer
A.k.a.: Surly Duff
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| posted on May 28th, 2013 at 12:24 AM |
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GPS is a lot cheaper/safer than a street directory. $150 tomtom saved my marriage. She cant navigate and I dont have an ounce of patience.
Returned the Up loan car today. Wollongong to Chullora $6.69 (4.1l) and 1 hour. Public transport from Chullora to Wollongong $11.20 and 2 hours (not
including the 15 minutes waiting for the bus). I dont think I would cheerfully buy on. Really not a fan of the engine at all. Aside from that, neat
package.
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AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
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| posted on May 28th, 2013 at 07:02 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by silver
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
A lot of Australian companies go broke because of bad management.
Dick Smith, Harvey Norman etc. They'll be the next.
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H'mm, doubt it dick smith are owned by woolworths
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Woolworths tried to sell DSE. I don't know if they were successful or not. They have been losing money for a few years now and have closed many of
their stores.
Australian management has a reputation worldwide.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on May 28th, 2013 at 03:03 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by silver
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
A lot of Australian companies go broke because of bad management.
Dick Smith, Harvey Norman etc. They'll be the next.
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H'mm, doubt it dick smith are owned by woolworths
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Woolworths tried to sell DSE. I don't know if they were successful or not. They have been losing money for a few years now and have closed many of
their stores.
Australian management has a reputation worldwide.
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Its because the bastards whom bought DSE out changed its market focus from specialty electronics/electrical componentry/engineering/circuitry to
run-of-the mill retravision/harvey normal style electrical appliances, an already well established, over populated and highly competitive market.
I was there when the transistion began, as a Tandy Electronics employee, which was owned by DSE, and subsequently owned by woolJerx. I knew for sure
that the oldskool electronics back ground of DSE was long gone when 12 months after i resigned and moved on, I walked in wanting an oscilloscope, all
three of the sales people there didn't know what an oscilloscope was!! I found it on their shelves on my own and bought it.
Jaycar must be laughing now.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
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karmann141
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on May 28th, 2013 at 08:15 PM |
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This might explain some of the shit we're in
$55/hour
Minister for Trade and Competitiveness, Craig Emerson, PM Julia Gillard and Treasurer Swan continue to trot out the line that Ford's manufacturing
closure is due to the high Aussie dollar.
Hmmm, misleading to say the least.
The reason is, in fact, union imposts and Gillard's anti-competitive policies.
To compete, consumers make a decision on a whole range of factors, one of which is price.
Labour makes up 65% of the component price of car produced in Australia .
When this was put to ACTU National Secretary, Dave Oliver, on live TV this morning he feigned ignorance .
"I know nothing about that."
Really? If he doesn't, he's incompetent. If he does, he's lying.
The panel interviewer quoted this as an industry released fact.
An Aussie car manufacturing worker is on about $55/hour. In Asia it's about $7/hour.
Then there are the holiday loadings, perks, superannuation, safety nets...and on it goes, all of which weigh down heavily on industry in Australia.
Then there's the carbon tax and electricity prices (which have increased by 50% under Labor, all a direct flow from failed green schemes).
It's little wonder it costs twice as much to produce a car in Australia compared to Europe and four times more than the same vehicle in Asia.
Investors are telling industry leaders we are the highest cost country for manufacturing. We're not an attractive place to do business and our
consumers pay too much for Aussie made products. Yanks pay half what we do for an equivalent locally-made car.
Labor and its union base has literally dealt our workers out of a job.
Let's take a quick look at the Gillard-Swan-Emerson 'high Australian dollar' argument.
The Australian dollar would need to fall by 50% (to 50c) to get to a level playing field with Europe and 75% (to 25c) to get on equal footing with
Asia.
It's a misleading and farcical argument.
The real truth lies in union demands built on government subsidies and unsustainable workplace deals for an industry with a relatively small economy
of scale.
This country cannot afford to build cars. Home-built cars can't compete locally and we can't compete globally.
Ford workers can look to their union leaders for pricing them out of work.
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bus914
Custom Title Time!
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| posted on May 28th, 2013 at 08:46 PM |
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Don't propagate the bullshit about high wages unless you think you're overpaid.
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