| [ Total Views: 2584 | Total Replies: 60 | Thread Id: 104584 ] |
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 karmann141
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| posted on January 6th, 2014 at 08:21 PM |
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Vlad you need to piss those tyres off real quick - they sound downright dangerous.
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vlad01
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| posted on January 6th, 2014 at 08:55 PM |
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yeah I reckon. shithouse.
Let me give everyone a heads up on bob janes.
I wish i had found these reviews earlier. Go though a couple of pages. Terrifying
http://www.productreview.com.au/p/bob-jane-all-rounder.html
I also had similar problems with kelly tyres years ago when i first started driving. They got the silent drift of death in DRY! conditions, wet was as
bad as job janes. The tread never wore out, they were hard as rock. I lost it many times without warning. Scary as!
I reckon bridge stones have been the best for me. They can be pushed really hard and still grip and are predictable in their behavior.
71 notchback,
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vlad01
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| posted on January 6th, 2014 at 09:15 PM |
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omg! just read the reviews on the xenon tyres. Thats what my new mags on the other car has on them.
The reviews are even worse for wet conditions.
This is going to be one expensive operation to replace all these  .
Anyone got a recommendation? Thinking of trying Potenza RE002. Reviews dont seem to fault them.
71 notchback,
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farkengruven
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| posted on January 6th, 2014 at 09:43 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Lucky Phil
I recall discussing this with a club member a few years ago with his T5 towing a car on a trailer.
Hit a big puddle on the hay plains heading to Warwick.
As the vehicle slowed dramatically the rear wheels maintained a steady 110 kph.
Scared the absolute Bejeesus out of him!
Despite the configuration of the vehicle ( front or rear wheel drive, front or rear drive speedo), it's the cruise control's job t maintain
speed.
If the drive wheels are hydroplaning, they have effectively NO traction.
So they are going to spin.
From here on in, all bets are off.
This is just another example IMHO of the degradation of driving skills in the modern age.
Power steering, cruise control, ABS, reverse assist,proximity sensors, parking assist etc. etc.
The vehicle is doing all the work, the drivers are becoming less skilled, and are less able to deal with a crisis when it happens.
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I can only see this happening in a T5, is if the cruise control was a cheap aftermarket unit.
The factory cruise control on a T5 will disconnect when you hit big puddle.
So I think the warning that the OP talked about, is possible on an aftermarket unit. I can't see it happening on a factory fit cruise control on any
car.
I wonder if this would happen on the first series of Amaroks, as most of the cruise controls on those were aftermarket units fitted here in Australia.
2007 T5 TDI Crewvan
2003 Passat
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bajachris88
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| posted on January 6th, 2014 at 10:08 PM |
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Haha, dad's VP commodore has Bob Jane all rounders. the rubber is so hard the tyres last forever!
Hooks up the commodore like stupid just by taking a corner a little quicker than typical. Really makes a boat out of em with the rocky sideways action
Caught me out bigtime once as a kid driving dad's car back home and accelerating out of a corner. bastard auto dropped a gear and rear end hooked
out, eep!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
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vlad01
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| posted on January 6th, 2014 at 10:09 PM |
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I pull off a few aftermarket units on somes cars. None worked so I think they would be unsafe.
some of the kits are so dodgy that they glue a magnet to a tail or drive shaft and use a read switch as the pickup
sounds reliable.
71 notchback,
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vlad01
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| posted on January 6th, 2014 at 10:20 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bajachris88
Haha, dad's VP commodore has Bob Jane all rounders. the rubber is so hard the tyres last forever!
Hooks up the commodore like stupid just by taking a corner a little quicker than typical. Really makes a boat out of em with the rocky sideways action
Caught me out bigtime once as a kid driving dad's car back home and accelerating out of a corner. bastard auto dropped a gear and rear end hooked
out, eep!
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yep, That is exactly what i drive for my get around automobile and the same tyres. Except I have to deal with manual and extra bottom end torque as
the extractors have runners much much longer than stock( aprox 3-4 x longer), torque is moved heaps down range.
If anyone has driven a VN series 1 with LN3 engine will know what I mean. Its similar to that.
Interesting you say your dad'd tyres were hard. My job janes are softest tyres I have so far had. I can't understand why they don't grip. Its like
they leach oil and self lubricate in the wet?
71 notchback,
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1303Steve
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| posted on January 6th, 2014 at 11:31 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
I pull off a few aftermarket units on somes cars. None worked so I think they would be unsafe.
some of the kits are so dodgy that they glue a magnet to a tail or drive shaft and use a read switch as the pickup
sounds reliable.
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The cruise control kit on my Audi & 1302 did this but I used cables ties instead, never had a problem, my new one uses the VSS
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vlad01
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| posted on January 7th, 2014 at 09:02 AM |
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Is your kit servo driven or vacuum operated?
All the aftermarket ones I seen were vacuum actuated and did not work. All my factory holden ones are a self containing servo actuated units. Never
had one fault or ever heard of it either. These units are over 20 years at the youngest now and work beautifully.
Come to think of it, you could retro fit these units to other cars as they work standalone. All they need is VSS signal, power and switch inputs.
does anyone want to see one of these units? I can get a pic when I'm home.
71 notchback,
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vwo60
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| posted on January 7th, 2014 at 10:00 AM |
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I have had two vac operated ones that have worked for years, on the beetle i put the magnet and pickup in the front disc brakes i made, on the
mitsubishi the pickup went on the tail shaft, both are still going after all these years, depends on who fits them as they are quite hard to get to
work reliably.
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vlad01
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| posted on January 7th, 2014 at 10:57 AM |
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My brother had ( still has, but sits in the paddock now) an EB falcoon.
Its has factory cruise and its vacuum operated. The car doesn't generate enough vacuum for anything to work properly, the cruise does not work.
Heater doesn't even turn on anymore as there isn't enough vac to open the tap.
also my Niece's ford ute looses all vacuum for all vac operated items in the car when going up hill. I would imagine if that had factory cruise it
would shit bricks trying to go up hill.
ford never fitted a vac reservoir nor a check valve to any of the cars throughout the 90s is seems. I can't see the logic in their cruise control if
the vac doesn't even work properly. I wonder why they didn't just fit a servo type to those cars?
71 notchback,
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vwo60
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| posted on January 7th, 2014 at 12:26 PM |
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I fitted a vacuum reservoir on the beetle and the mitsubishi is a diesel with a vacuum pump, in the instructions it states you may need to fit a
vacuum reservoir. the beetle is a 2054 with twin 44 IDF's , works well.
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vlad01
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| posted on January 7th, 2014 at 01:21 PM |
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At least you got that right. 
71 notchback,
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vlad01
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| posted on January 7th, 2014 at 01:29 PM |
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Anyone had cruise control jam up? My friend had it happen in his AU wagon. He said when he came up to an intersection it did not want to stop and
had to use both feet on the brake and still was trying to speed up.
He killed the key to stop it. When he restarted the car in park it just red lined straight away. I recall he said he unhooked the cruise control
cable, fiddled with the cruise cable and got it unstuck and it was alright after that?
I think that would be way more scary than going through a few puddles.
71 notchback,
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1303Steve
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| posted on January 7th, 2014 at 05:41 PM |
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Hi
The cruise control for my 1303 is made by Rostra and is servo driven, the one I had on my Audi and 1302 was also servo driven. I'm not sure how
vacuum unit would deal with boost.
Good to hear I'm not the only VW driver who appreciates cruise control on old VWs, driving a light car with a bit of extra power is just asking to
get a speeding fine.
With magnets mounted on the CV joints you would feel a small serge going around corners as the outside wheel sped up to keep up with the inside
wheel.
Fitting these units needs some care, they come with a small chain link to allow the cruise control cable to go slack when not in use otherwise the
cable could get damaged if its forced back into the unit.
Steve
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AA003
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| posted on January 8th, 2014 at 09:19 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
I'm not sure how vacuum unit would deal with boost.
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Volkswagen use a vacuum pump. When you hit the brake or clutch, it switches the pump off and vents the line. Very safe.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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1303Steve
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| posted on January 8th, 2014 at 10:22 AM |
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That's OEM, I'm not sure how an after market unit would deal with say putting 20 psi through it, I would imagine that the diaprham would be getting
pushed both ways which might lead to preamture failure and if its using vacuum to move throttle lever, the vacuum would disappear when a turbo motor
comes on boost so would that work
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vlad01
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| posted on January 8th, 2014 at 12:57 PM |
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vac res and check valve.
i have enough vac without the engine for few days of climate control gear to keep operating.
the one way check valve is key. it doesn't allow pressure in, only suction out.
71 notchback,
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AA003
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| posted on January 9th, 2014 at 06:48 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
That's OEM, I'm not sure how an after market unit would deal with say putting 20 psi through it, I would imagine that the diaprham would be getting
pushed both ways which might lead to preamture failure and if its using vacuum to move throttle lever, the vacuum would disappear when a turbo motor
comes on boost so would that work
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That's a safety feature to stop losing control when you hit a puddle.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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HappyDaze
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| posted on January 9th, 2014 at 08:28 AM |
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Donn has posted a warning about cruise control, and it is worth taking notice of. What is needed is a bit of 'common sense'......even if it's net all that common.
If you let someone else take control of your car's accelerator pedal [via cruise control], then be aware of their limitations. Be ready to re-take
control at a moment's notice. Most of the time cruise control will work fine, but be aware that it IS POSSIBLE for things to go wrong.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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vwo60
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| posted on January 9th, 2014 at 08:52 AM |
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As a kit it takes a lot care to install without problems, they are not for the back yard mechanic even though they are sold that way, the ones i have
took hours to install and get the linkage working correctly, i could easily see them jamming with the throttle open if fitted without care.
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1303Steve
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| posted on January 9th, 2014 at 10:00 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by HappyDaze
Donn has posted a warning about cruise control, and it is worth taking notice of. What is needed is a bit of 'common sense'......even if it's net all that common.
If you let someone else take control of your car's accelerator pedal [via cruise control], then be aware of their limitations. Be ready to re-take
control at a moment's notice. Most of the time cruise control will work fine, but be aware that it IS POSSIBLE for things to go wrong.
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I agree, there is a time and location for using cruise control, but if your not constantly looking at your speedo for fear of being booked for
speeding you have a better chance of seeing something about to go wrong if your using cruise control, that is as long as the brain isn't in cruise
control as well.
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donn
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| posted on January 9th, 2014 at 10:11 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by HappyDaze
Donn has posted a warning about cruise control, and it is worth taking notice of. What is needed is a bit of 'common sense'......even if it's net all that common.
If you let someone else take control of your car's accelerator pedal [via cruise control], then be aware of their limitations. Be ready to re-take
control at a moment's notice. Most of the time cruise control will work fine, but be aware that it IS POSSIBLE for things to go wrong.
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Thanks HappyDaze, though that's not quite what my message was intended as but more as a question about the warning, I am still not sure that it is a
valid warning, if the car starts to aquaplane then that means the tyres have lost traction and they would begin to rotate faster, in my mind that
means that the CC would sense that the car is travelling faster than the set speed (not because it is travelling faster but because the wheels
rotating faster would send a signal to the CC that it aws )
surely that would mean that the CC would back off, not "suddenly launch the car into the air".
I guess it's just another of those things that my miniscule brain can't comprehend.
THanks
Don
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vlad01
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| posted on January 9th, 2014 at 01:42 PM |
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you are spot on Don.
What you think happens is what actually does happen.
When you have the driven wheels slip and speed up and of course the car wont speed up because of inertia. The cruise backs off and you feel it sort of
loose power for a sec.
It happens to my car all the time. I occasionally feel a sudden but gentle loss of speed then followed by gradual acceleration back to the set speed.
I get that effect going over road surface level drops as the heavy ass live axle (somewhere around 80kg+ unsprung weight) can't fall to the lower
surface quick enough and wheel leave the ground momentarily.
what is possible though is if your cc unit reads the non driven wheels and the car is slowed down enough by what ever means, the cc will try to
accelerate the driven wheels. If traction is low enough and cc is really trying then you could get a situation where you get run away wheel spin.
And if you started to spin out and in this example I will say the sensor is in the front wheels and the rear drive, yep the front wheels would really
slow down in a loss of control situation and the cc would go mental trying to speed back up ( if you decided not to disable by using the brakes) .
That would make it even worse as the rear wheels spin more and more
the unit should never be setup like this, its just asking for it. My guess is no factory unit would be like that ?
One way to see how the unit reacts to a loss of speed beyond its own control is put the car in neutral after its rolls down a hill. Nothing at first
as you are rolling faster than the set speed, then soon enough when the car slows down it will go flat stick and redline trying to speed up. Some of
the smarter units don't do this, but so far all cars I have tried this in rev off there heads.
funny this thread. I remember I submitted this exact myth to the mythbusters for testing some 5 years ago. I don't think it got popular enough to
test though.
71 notchback,
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ragged
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| posted on January 9th, 2014 at 10:51 PM |
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Don, Here it is again…
1. When you hit a big enough puddle on the road it slows the vehicle. Try this yourself if you have not experienced it before. The bigger the puddle
the faster you slow.
2. What happens when the car slows, the cruise control tries to increase the speed. The more speed that gets wiped off the more the car
accelerates.
3. If the puddle is deep enough, you are aquaplaning.
Example, your doing 100 km/h and you hit a puddle, car slows rapidly, to say 80km/h, the cruise control gives a heap of accelerator to increase speed,
but because the tyres are aquaplaning, the wheels are spinning back up to set speed 100km/h.
Now the car is doing 80km/h and the wheels are doing 100km/h and then when you regain traction, it launches the car back up to speed and it will keep
accelerating until it reaches 100km/h no matter what the direction the car is travelling, forwards, backwards or sideways, until either the you turn
off the cruise control or touch the brakes.
Manufacturers are aware of this and now have set parameters within which the cruise control operates. If a sudden acceleration is out of those
parameters, it shuts it down. Or as you mention, turn on the wipers, it cancels the cruise.
Remember, this only happens under certain conditions, and if you have had it happen to you, you will know about it. When it happened to me, it was a
real WTF moment, because when the car regains traction, HOLD ON!
Dave
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vlad01
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| posted on January 9th, 2014 at 11:15 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ragged
Don, Here it is again…
1. When you hit a big enough puddle on the road it slows the vehicle. Try this yourself if you have not experienced it before. The bigger the puddle
the faster you slow.
2. What happens when the car slows, the cruise control tries to increase the speed. The more speed that gets wiped off the more the car
accelerates.
3. If the puddle is deep enough, you are aquaplaning.
Example, your doing 100 km/h and you hit a puddle, car slows rapidly, to say 80km/h, the cruise control gives a heap of accelerator to increase speed,
but because the tyres are aquaplaning, the wheels are spinning back up to set speed 100km/h.
Now the car is doing 80km/h and the wheels are doing 100km/h and then when you regain traction, it launches the car back up to speed
and it will keep accelerating until it reaches 100km/h no matter what the direction the car is travelling, forwards, backwards or sideways, until
either the you turn off the cruise control or touch the brakes.
Manufacturers are aware of this and now have set parameters within which the cruise control operates. If a sudden acceleration is out of those
parameters, it shuts it down. Or as you mention, turn on the wipers, it cancels the cruise.
Remember, this only happens under certain conditions, and if you have had it happen to you, you will know about it. When it happened to me, it was a
real WTF moment, because when the car regains traction, HOLD ON!
Dave
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no not really. Like being airborne and redlining in the air doesn't give you a boost of speed when you land just because your wheels are spinning way
faster in the air.
try doing a burnout when you are going 100 already, similar problem not a happens. it may kick the wheels a bit but wont launch the car.
Unless you have 700hp of course. different story.
And the other important point is as far my experience goes, all factory fitted cruise units start acceleration real slow and gradually increase over
time if the demand continues for long enough. usually 5 sec or longer.
All this theory is making me want and try this out. Might go try this on my driveway latter in the week. set cruise and rip the hand brake to
simulate slowing down by a puddle. My tyres suck on gravel so I will find out one way or another.
71 notchback,
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vlad01
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| posted on January 9th, 2014 at 11:18 PM |
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oh something i forgot about, automatics? do they kickback with cruise control when acceleration is required?
71 notchback,
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donn
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| posted on January 10th, 2014 at 06:23 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
oh something i forgot about, automatics? do they kickback with cruise control when acceleration is required?
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Both my Caddy and Forester do, Forester is a real bitch as it shunts down and up through the gears if on a long steep gradiant, there is one such hill
on the F3 that I have now come to grips with, I swith the CC off as soon as I start to climb, the Caddy is much better but being a diesel that is
probably because of the greater low down torque.
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ragged
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| posted on January 10th, 2014 at 11:47 AM |
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The point you are missing is when you hit a big enough puddle, IT SLOWS YOU DOWN. I am not talking about wet patches.
When you are doing 100 km/h it can be dangerous. Just like any other accident it is a combination of factors. The speed, the road surface, the
weather, the depth of the puddle, the amount of tread on the tyres, the experience of the driver just to name a few. Need I mention alcohol or
attitude, 'it would never happen to me'.
I have first hand experience of this happening. In the right circumstances, it can be fatal.
vlad what ever you try to simulate this, pulling of a handbrake at 100km/h is foolish! (unless you are a very good driver)
Dave
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HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
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| posted on January 10th, 2014 at 03:33 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by HappyDaze
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ragged
Don, take it from me that this is all true. How it works?
1. When you hit a big enough puddle on the road it slows the vehicle. Try this yourself if you have not experienced it before. The bigger the puddle
the faster you slow.
2. What happens when the car slows, the cruise control tries to increase the speed. The more speed that gets wiped off the more the car
accelerates.
3. If the puddle is deep enough, you are aquaplaning.
Example, your doing 100 km/h and you hit a puddle, car slows rapidly, to say 80km/h, the cruise control gives a heap of accelerator to increase speed,
but because the tyres are aquaplaning, the wheels are spinning back up to set speed 100km/h.
Now the car is doing 80km/h and the wheels are doing 100km/h and then when you regain traction, it launches the car back up to speed and it will keep
accelerating until it reaches 100km/h no matter what the direction the car is travelling, forwards, backwards or sideways, until either the you turn
off the cruise control or touch the brakes.
Manufacturers are aware of this and now have set parameters within which the cruise control operates. If a sudden acceleration is out of those
parameters, it shuts it down. Or as you mention, turn on the wipers, it cancels the cruise.
Remember, this only happens under certain conditions, and if you have had it happen to you, you will know about it. When it happened to me, it was a
real WTF moment, because when the car regains traction, HOLD ON!
Dave
PS Happy New Year!
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Dave, that is EXACTLY what happened to my son, Tim, in his V8 Maloo ute.
He was traveling at 110 kph up Catherine Hill [near Mittagong] on the freeway, cruise control set. It was pouring rain and dark, and half-way up the
hill there was a 'river' of water across the road.
When the ute hit water, it slowed rapidly, but the cruise control quickly got the rear wheels back to the set speed, even though the ute had slowed to
around 100. Fortunately Tim can drive well http://vimeo.com/search?q=tim+mackie+record , as a Maloo sideways at 100 kph needs some attention! No damage done, and
lesson learned.
It is NOT a "load of shit" at all.
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vlad, just in case you missed this. It ACTUALLY HAPPENED. If you choose not to believe me, that's OK.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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