| [ Total Views: 2653 | Total Replies: 66 | Thread Id: 17378 ] |
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 nbturbo
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| posted on January 10th, 2004 at 06:41 PM |
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Yes-Injection Perfection(I think its spelt right) have throttle bodies that will bolt on in place of a Weber and have injector mounts cast into
them.They also have all the hardware-linkages,arms,TPS switches and fuel rails.This gear is top quality and the price reflects its quality
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bigbruvabob
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| posted on January 12th, 2004 at 12:42 PM |
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injection
http://www.injectionperfection.com/ is the page they have a good
description some graphs and a full set up using microtech ecu for 2550-00 . the price list is split up so u can see what costs what, considering new
webers cost about 1800 this is pretty good i would think.
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ratty 63
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 posted on January 14th, 2004 at 11:05 AM |
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fan issues
Hi all,
Just a quick one - got an Email from Mike Sharp yesterday; tells me that the fan fitted to Daves baja is the wrong one! This is likely to be the
cause of the higher than expected running temps Dave is experiencing.
Now the hunt is on for a correct fan - if you can help, please let me know.
Thanks
R
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 Bizarre
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| posted on January 14th, 2004 at 12:53 PM |
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Sorry
what is the one you are after????
The picture shows and 11 blade fan.
Are there 2 sorts???
I gather you are definitely not after the 5 blader??
Futue te ipsum!!!
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 14th, 2004 at 01:37 PM |
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There is also a 12 blade,not for more airflow but designed to lower the noise level these things develop.If you are using an 11 blade there is no way
a standard Type 4 will o'heat from lack of air flow.There is something else wrong.I think I mentioned on here about the under cylinder cooling
tin.The original ones(similar the Type 3 engines)were designed for the different type of cooling system-the air enters into the cylinder area from the
front and across the top of the barrels unlike the upright system where it thrust directly down onto the wide flattish area of the barrels and
heads.VW wouldn't have changed this tin ware without some research.
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ratty 63
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| posted on January 15th, 2004 at 01:23 PM |
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Fan Issues
Hi all,
Just to clarify the issue we are having here with the fan on my Bros Baja, the fan that is fitted at the moment is 225mm in diameter, the fan that
should be fitted is 245mm in diameter. This is leading to (from what we understand) much of the cooling air not making it down to the engine, but
escaping through the gap between the fan and the ring. The ring that is fitted is to suit a 245mm fan, so why this fan was fitted to the ring in the
first place we don't know. The fan was purchased at a swap so no warranty unfortunatly, but we have to get it sorted ASAP, especially with the
high daytime temps we are suffering from at the moment here in Qld.
To check your fan, the gap between the fan an the ring should only be very small (when the bearings go in the altinator the fan will actually rub on
the ring - thats how close it needs to be!) If you look at the pics of my Bros fan, you can stick yor finger between the fan and the ring (with the
engine off - obvoiusly!:P ).
R
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 15th, 2004 at 07:42 PM |
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Just had another look at the pic-you are correct-that will cause some issues with o'heating.
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NuZo
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| posted on October 21st, 2008 at 08:37 PM |
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i kno this thread is old old old... but i would like some more light on this type 4 conversion? any one kno a rough cost? materials needed etc?
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 barls
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| posted on October 21st, 2008 at 08:47 PM |
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mine costed about 2 grand not counting the motor which i have rebuilt at about 4g and mines a stock 2L. you need to be fairly mechanically minded and
its not just a whack it in and drive there are other things needed ie brake and gearbox upgrades and thats not to mention the engineers certificates
ether.
if your serious about it richard at v force is the best one in sydney to talk to about it.
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NuZo
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| posted on October 21st, 2008 at 08:55 PM |
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im jsut exploring ideas!! i dont kno what im going to do with my car yet! but i would love to pick the perfect option! and to tell u the truth... i
really dont kno what that is!!!
my options so far....
Supercharged 1776 type 1*bit of fiddling tho*
2L type 1
2L type 4*simple casuse its stock*
2L type 4 supercharged*wishes*
EJ20(but dont want water cooling)
EJ22(but dont want water cooling)
i really had my heart set on 1776 superchaged casue its cheap and fair reliable, but this type 4 conversion has got me VERY interested... the stock 2L
would have about 90hp? and alot more tourqe? mebbe this is all i really need? for now anyways!?
so you are saying? $4k all up with stock 2L type 4?
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barls
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| posted on October 21st, 2008 at 09:02 PM |
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ok hows this then for some info. better fuel economy than a stock 1600, cruise all day at 110km/h without worrying about hills. longer between
rebuilds if treated and built right. stronger and has less modification from stock for bigger capacity ie 2.5L from a stock 2L which is the same
percentage as taking a 1600 to 1916. has a broader torque curve.
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NuZo
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| posted on October 21st, 2008 at 09:07 PM |
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hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm but i want some proper power figures.... hp and Nm etc. i kno that a stock 1600dp with a supercharger @ 8 psi runs 75-80hp and its not
that expencive, but in the long run, it will be..
i kno that a 2L type 1 is VERY expencive but can get hp figures from 80-150hp?
i kno subi engines are powerhouses!! over 120hp easy, but are expencive!!! and water cooled!! grrrrrrrrr
gah.... decisions!!!
main thing .... must be VERY reliable! and cannot have the engine lid popped .... i just cant stand seeing my car with the lid open like that....
eeeek!
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Joel
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| posted on October 21st, 2008 at 09:13 PM |
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hate to burst ur bubble but stock 2L T4 was good for 68hp
unless u can do everything urself supercharging and turbo isnt cheap
been there and done both and it adds up quick let alone paying someone to do it
just cos i ran my stock1600 at 8psi doenst mean it was good for it either
6psi is sensible
80hp was at the wheels tho not the flywheel
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NuZo
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| posted on October 21st, 2008 at 09:20 PM |
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haha only 68hp? nawww!!!
and yeah i kno supercharging isnt that cheap,
and it would be a 1600 fully rebuilt not just a stock 30 year old motor lulz...
i cant decide on what to do... but if type 4 2L only pulls 68hp i might have to rethink...
my old transporter bus was a 2L but with an auto box, it had great toruqe for what it was, but i wasnt sure of power.
edit: wow 80 atw? i thought it was FW.... wow thats a massive increase right there from stock power...
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Joel
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| posted on October 21st, 2008 at 09:27 PM |
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yup they were very low compression motors
plus the carbs cam and exhaust didnt help
fix all these things then ur cooking with gas
i was gonna go type4 years ago
even had an engine but in the long term it wasnt worth it
a type 1 can make the same power for alot less $$ and unless u really rack up the KMs then the extra life doesnt isnt really gonna pay off
theres alot more gofarst stuff for rype1 as well
btw the stock 1600 which wasnt real long in the tooth put down 44hp at the treads, same motor blown at 6psi was 82hp
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NuZo
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| posted on October 21st, 2008 at 09:50 PM |
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lol now ur just teasing me with the supercharger!!! dam you joel!!!
ok so best real options here....
type 1 engine heavy modded to 2L
or
type 1 1600dp with supercharger with options for a bigger engine later?
now realisticly, how much would u say both would cost, both being reliable and both being driven every day?
this will prolly be the deciding factor here!
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66deluxe
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| posted on October 22nd, 2008 at 12:17 PM |
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A simple camshaft change can increase power by 15%, the stock camshaft sucks big time. if you can an 1800 with a cam change and upright kit will make
you very happy.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
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NuZo
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| posted on October 22nd, 2008 at 01:52 PM |
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how much would it cost for the conversion + cam's... also how much power are we talking about here?
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barls
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| posted on October 22nd, 2008 at 08:20 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
hate to burst ur bubble but stock 2L T4 was good for 68hp
unless u can do everything urself supercharging and turbo isnt cheap
been there and done both and it adds up quick let alone paying someone to do it
just cos i ran my stock1600 at 8psi doenst mean it was good for it either
6psi is sensible
80hp was at the wheels tho not the flywheel
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try 90 hp in stock form joel.
look here
http://www.tunacan.net/t4/why.htm
i wouldnt have even thought about it at 68hp as 1600 was only 50 odd.
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barls
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| posted on October 22nd, 2008 at 08:24 PM |
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here is more reading
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=28504
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=45759
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Joel
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| posted on October 22nd, 2008 at 08:42 PM |
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thats US specs
according to the kombi manual i got (aus) with the 1978 wheels road test its 51kw for the 2L which is 68hp
the stock 2L had shitty little valve sizes and low compression 7.3 to be exact
also this taken from HSW and wiki
"The 20-second barrier fell in 1976, when the Volkswagen Bus borrowed yet another engine, this time the 2.0-liter flat-four from the Porsche 914
sports car. Horsepower remained 67 at 4200 rpm, but torque climbed to a relatively robust 101 pounds/feet at 3000. Even with automatic, VW buses could
now run 0-60 mph in 19.9 seconds"
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NuZo
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| posted on October 22nd, 2008 at 11:24 PM |
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ok, u guys are screwing with me here!!!! can any one prove the real HP and tourqe figures of a 2.0L type 4?
also installation costs and running costs
and if u could joel, can u answer these questions with ur superchaged bug?
worst case scenario, ej20/22 but i would really really like to keep it air cooled..
| Quote: |
EJ engine with ancilliaries but no ECU: $1000 pair of webers: $600 Conversion kit; $600 Time and effort: free Total result: $2200 and probably 140kw
Type 4 cost of rebuild: $2500. new heads because both the ones on the motor are cracked: $1000 Pair of webers $600. Hope the clutch is good. End
result: $4100 and 80kw.
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read this from another fourm? is it really that much of a price difference?
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Pauld
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| posted on October 23rd, 2008 at 07:51 AM |
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i was offered a 2L kombi motor yesterday. not sure on whether or not to bight the bullet
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bond
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| posted on October 23rd, 2008 at 03:37 PM |
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joel is pretty much on the money. i wouldnt put too great an emphasis on hp figures and alike as you will seldom find consistency between
calculations/dynos etc.
"i kno that a 2L type 1 is VERY expencive but can get hp figures from 80-150hp?" - i don't know why you think this is expensive given it is one of
the more popular type1 engine upgrade/modifications....
bottom line - most people will start with a 1776 or 1914/15/16. why???? they are economic to build, they can be built to be reliable and performance
is typically enough for most.
pm guys like craig torrens who is an avid supporter of pobjoy 191x? stuff. or mick058 for a similar story. or daimo pell (hellbugged) who has recently
built himself a 1776 which i think pulled similar HP figures on a dyno up here in brisbane to most 1916's.....
coming from someone who is mid-way through a type 4 build - unless you are made of money - i highly doubt the benefit will outweigh the cost. then
again - maybe ill go back on such a statement in several months/years time when im driving down to vw portland at 120km/hr to do a few 1/8miles and
head home!! hehe current estimated completion date is 2010 
nick
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NuZo
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| posted on October 23rd, 2008 at 05:31 PM |
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wow ... well i kno mech has a 2l type 1 in his.. pulling well over +130hp... revs to 8k ... fkn screamer!!
but this cost him LOADS of money... moeny which i would never have! so given the choice im guessing that type 4 is too expencive, a type 1 mebbe 1776
or 1915 but i thought it cost about 2k to build one of them up? and casue i have a 1500SP im going to need a new engine so another 1k ontop so 3k
total?
were as from what iv gatherd a ej20 conversion costs the same about 3k? so realisticly best bang for buck would be ej20 conversion?
even tho i would love to keep it air cooled.... im really short of cash, and prolly will be untill i can find a real job... so the cheapest build per
HP is looking good for me right now ...
ugh... decisions!!!
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bond
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| posted on October 23rd, 2008 at 05:49 PM |
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you want $ and are still persistent on the hp thing! hehe figures figures figures he says. i think throwing HP figures around does nothing but get
your hopes up and gives some of us a bit of semi-on..... maybe it gives you a bit of an idea also, which i guess is what you're trying to
establish.
$ will depend on who does what ie: a full ej20 conversion by cvd (though in a kombi) is upward of 10k. (see here http://www.customveedub.com.au/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=26 )
should you source your own parts and have a chop at install yourself i think realistically you'll still be up for 5k?....
a bone stock tired old 1600TP which is what i think you're chasing for a rebuild you'll pick up for $400-600. and should you sell your running
1500sp im sure someone will snap that up for similar money once this new engine is built.
if you want to spend 3k or thereabouts - 1916 (which we often refer to as 2L - same thing) get a quote for 94mm p&b and machining, cam, carbs and
exhaust and see where you're at......
someone with alot more experience in $ and building such motors will be able to give you a considerably more accurate estimate than i.
nick
here is a rod penrose thread i pulled up - bang for buck you won't find any better. i'd call him also....
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=70410&page=1#pid657395
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barls
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| posted on October 23rd, 2008 at 07:33 PM |
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hey mate do yourself a favour and ring richard at vforce and speak to him, he has done both in each of his sons' cars. i think the t4 was 170hp and 3
seconds slower than a gt3 on the track. the t1 was 140 but they can be a bit of a hand grenade at that size if not treated right. as for the t4 it
cost me 2000 initially and that included engineers certificate, that was everything with me fitting it. it did cost me around the 4000 mark for a
rebuild but i ditched the stock cam for a mild grind and have a custom exhaust to boot.
this engine baring a major failure should still be running well after the 1916s have worn out. its been going for 2 years so far and i wouldnt go back
to the type one motor no matter what reason.
ether way if you want the engine built by someone talk to someone who has done both and doest mind helping people match their driving styles to the
engine. turbo is fine as is supercharger but you will still require an engineers for it to be legal without it, your insurance company can just wipe
you if you have an accident and they find that you have modified outside of the road legal status.
also they can be very hard on the bottom end if not built right.
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NuZo
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| posted on October 23rd, 2008 at 10:32 PM |
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i kno and have seen one of the sons beetles from vforce. i htink his name was alex? sky blue with whale tale and the rest. it was a 2.4l fuel
injected, and i wont forget it becasue he was smashing my mates Type R...
i like the idea of supercharger becasue it doesnt require that much engine work, the engine just needs a rebuild and thats about it(from what im
guessing) but alot of custom mounts etc
the idea of a 2L type 4 is also good becasue its a very rfeliable engine and will outlast a type 1 but also costs alot more...
the idea of a type 1 in 1916 is good, but i need this car to be reliable as it would be used every single day without fail...
hence the idea of ej20 came up, reliable, but not a vw, and it never will be with an ej20 in it ...
iv even looked at rotary, but really cost and rebuilds every 6 months, just not worth it.
i think this is going to be a very personal decision, but i still would love to see all the pro's n cons from owners themselves.
theres no need to diss other engine builds and what not, just talk about your own and ur own experiances with them.
i only wish i had money so i could do all of them !!!! that would be indeedly awesome
one great thing i love about beetles, and vw.... is that there is endless ammounts of ideas out there! the only problem is finding the right one!!!
Cheers all for ur help btw!!!! all ur input is VERY WELCOM!!! and i love reading about peoples ideas n what not about engines etc...
keep em comming
ALSO....a must is, the engine lid must not be "popped"... gota be stock.
i jsut think it doesnt flow well with the cars lines when its out like that... but we shall see!!
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bond
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| posted on October 23rd, 2008 at 11:07 PM |
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couple things stand out from your enquiry:-
" i only wish i had money " "im really short of cash"
most of us are in a similar boat my friend... if you're familiar with "hindsight" then build a type 1.
then maybe save up and put about $6k minimum aside for that dream motor down the track...
these threads get repetitive about now. have a look on shoptalkforums in the type4rum - can read about this stuff for yonks. you've got a heap of
help from people and a variety of ideas and recommendations - now maybe do some more research and further reading, make some phone calls etc as this
has been covered on numerous occassions..... there is a search function on avd, also shoptalkforums, thesamba, good old google!
nick
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matberry
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| posted on October 24th, 2008 at 07:58 AM |
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With dollars being tight, do the type one. I have built many type 1's and type IV's, for kombi's and beetles.
I believe Alex Holzl is now going back to type 1...go figure.
There are soooo many variables, but no horsepower will last long if you cant afford to do it RIGHT, either way.
Type 1 should even be built on a new case....kiss 1k tat ta.... if you get my drift.
Some of these performance figures are from people that have spent arms and legs, and others that have been building for a very long time, and
therefore can slowly hone the combo to make some #'s, but to jump in and do it the first time round...(with 2k).....well, just say.....good luck.
Build what you can afford, say a basic 1915 then as you get more performance goodies even bolted to your engine, you will eventually be able to 'go
ballistic'.
2 cent from the Hillbilly!
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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