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posted on May 31st, 2004 at 12:18 AM
I jumped the gun a bit. Its not on till next Sunday. And I was SOO
excited.
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posted on May 31st, 2004 at 02:05 AM
Pentium 4 2.8/800 $276
ASUS P4C800 MB $265
512MB DDR 400 PC3200 RAM kingston $160
ASUS 9200SE ATI Radeon graphics $90
80GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8MB HD $115
Some kinda box to put it all in. $80~100
Total: $986 - $1006
Pentium 4 2.8/800 $265
ASUS P4C800 MB $265
512MB DDR 400 PC3200 RAM Samsung $132
ASUS 9200SE ATI Radeon graphics $71
80GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8MB HD $105
Some kinda box to put it all in. $40 (cheap) - $185 (nice)
Total: $878 - $1023
With a bit of tweaking, you might be able to afford:
AMD XP 3200+ $282
Gigabyte 7VT600-F $94 (includes RAID, SATA, LAN, 3 Firewire, 8 USB)
512MB DDR 400 PC3200 RAM Samsung $132
ASUS 9200SE ATI Radeon graphics $71
80GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8MB HD $105
Some kinda box to put it all in. $40 (cheap) - $185 (nice)
Total $724 - $869. This box would be about 15% faster than your initial choice, and costs 36% less.
Or you could go 64 bit, which totally creams Intel's offerings right now:
AMD FX-53 3000+ $345
Gigabyte K8N Pro MB $148
512MB DDR 400 PC3200 RAM Samsung $132
ASUS 9200SE ATI Radeon graphics $71
80GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8MB HD $105
Some kinda box to put it all in. $40 (cheap) - $185 (nice)
Total cost: $841 - $986
After SP2 (due in June), XP will be officially 64 bit native with more and more programs will be, too. You can already use 64-bit native NetBSD,
FreeBSD and Linux. The FX-53 at 3000+ speeds is about the same performance as the 3200+ and a bit faster than the 2.8 GHz P4.
You'll notice that both the FX-53 at 2.2 GHz (aka 3000+) and the Athlon 3200+ (at 2.8 GHz) beat the Intel 2.8 GHz nearly every time. So not only are
both processors cheaper, they're faster, too. If you go the 64 bit route, make sure it's the FX-53 and not the first gen Opteron (FX-51) as the
first gen, whilst okay, is not as fast.
Most likely, if you're anything like me, your computer will be doing a lot of waiting. I'd suggest going for the AMD 3200+ and upping the quality of
the components or getting a better video card, bigger HD or more RAM. I have a 120 GB drive, and I love it.
Andrew
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posted on May 31st, 2004 at 02:18 AM
PS. Re-reading the entire thread. I missed out on how you intend to use your PC.
I know you said you'd go Intel, but really, I'd suggest looking at the AMD alternative.
For what you do (programming and Oracle), which is similar to what I do, you want the fastest processor, memory and HD you can afford. For the money,
you can't go past AMD. Superior in every way, reliable and fast. Intel are playing a catch up game with AMD right now - even offering AMD's 64 bit
instructions in a chip due out this year, and struggle to meet AMD's performance at any price point. AMD's memory architecture (which is borrowed
from the Alpha, which Intel now makes) is excessive for PC's, but it's very very fast. Intel gets something like it with the dual DDR, but as you
can see from the benchmarks, AMD's FX-53's go faster than the dual DDR's do anyway.
I've been very happy with my AMD XP 2200+. It's nice and fast, and I rarely wait for it.
Andrew
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posted on May 31st, 2004 at 10:07 AM
Aww man, dont get me thinking about this stuff again.
The prices I quoted were out of some trading post kinda thing that, as it turns out, only had Melbourne stuff in it.
I got the box and the vid card. Box was $50, video card was $69. I guess I have more thinking to do this week.
One thing I dont understand is why people tell me to go bigger hard drive. My current disk usage (excluding oracle) is at 3.7GB. That would increase a
fair bit maybe when I go to XP from 98, but I dont see why I need anything more than 80GB.
While I have your attention will going to 64 bit cause any problems with anything 32 bit?
And why am I freezing my man boobs off when it is so sunny outside and not a breath of wind!
[Edited on 31-5-2004 by amazer]
[Edited on 31-5-2004 by amazer]
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posted on May 31st, 2004 at 09:23 PM
Okay, in order...
Cool - you got some good prices there.
Hard drive space is like a pay rise. Whenever you get a bigger one, it's all gone
I got a 120 GB after my 20 GB went flakey, I thought, it'll take me ages to fill it up. Well, ages = 3 months. I had a good ol' cleanout, but I'm
still at 40 GB right now. It means I can have all the different backups of the forum going, hacking away with different mysql's, etc. It just gives
you freedom.
Well, if you think 80 is going to do you, no worries. Spend the rest of your budget on a faster processor and more RAM. 512 MB is minimum Longhorn
(XP++) spec, and you'll want 1 GB or thereabouts in 2006. RAM is also absurdly cheap right now.
On the 64 bit front, the FX-53 is basically like a 386 in many ways. The FX-51/53 have a smaller 32 bit Athlon XP core, plus the processor allows the
instructions to access the underlying microarchitecture. This exposes the underlying micro-ops and registers... which just happen to be 64 bit wide
and ready. I don't know if you know this but the P4 and Athlon XP / Opterons are truly RISC processors with a x86 -> uOp translator. Each speak a
different microarchitecture, but to software it looks and feels like a Pentium III ... and then some. So in answer to your question, no, if you have
32 bit software, it'll work just fine, even if WinXP is running 64 bit native. It's like the days when Windows NT 3.1 ran Win3.11 software, but with
better compatibility as XP doesn't have to act so braindamaged. The 286 was truly awful - to do a context switch between kernel mode and user mode,
it effectively reset the processor, a single instruction which took about 80 cycles. 32 / 64 bit thunking is not this deranged, so it just works.
As apps become 64 bit aware, it just gets better. For example, you'll be able to trivially DVD encode an entire movie in real RAM if you have enough
(say 8 to 16 GB of RAM, something impossible with today's P4 or Athlon XP).
But realistically, given the workload you've described, a REALLY fast P4 or Athlon XP will do - better bang for buck with today's workset.
Andrew
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Intel's version of these opcodes is coming out in a Prescott related dual core Xeon later this year.
[edit] - Athlon 64 have the "no execute" bit for pages, which SP2 supports. This means that buffer / heap overflows are almost (but not quite)
impossible, eliminating many security vulnerabilities.
thanks,
Andrew
[Edited on 31-5-2004 by vanderaj]
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posted on May 31st, 2004 at 10:53 PM
LMAO. Are you having fun doing my head in?
Thanks so much for the advice. I really appreciate it. I have more than enough kknowledge now to be considered DANGEROUS. I am leaning very much
towards the 64bit option now. No point buying a new PC if it isnt going to be future proof for more than a few days. Guessing 128 bit is a loooong way
off and by then I will be ready to upgrade to a 20Ghz processor.
OK, hijacking my own thread. Without actually coding the whole thing, how do you do part 2 of this problem? I found it on a job website and its not
something I have had to do, nor even considered doing.
1) Write a program (in any language you like) that takes 2 integers and returns the sum of all prime numbers between those 2 integers. e.g. given 3
and 10 as input, the answer should be 15. (3+5+7= 15)
2) Write another program that tests the first one. I.e. calls the first app with particular inputs, and checks the answer against a previous manual
calculation. If you're into eXtreme Programming, feel free to write the testing app first.
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posted on May 31st, 2004 at 11:04 PM
The first problem is a simple Erosthenes Sieve (you only have to go to the sqrt() of the largest of the two numbers), but decrement down to the
solution rather than increment it.
I forgot the factorization aspect. You get the picture, though.
The second is to choose another algorithm to do the test. The slow way to prove prime is to iterate slowly through odd numbers on the way down until
you divide by min | two, firstnum |
As it is the test, you can write the slower of the two.
Andrew
[Edited on 31-5-2004 by vanderaj]
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posted on May 31st, 2004 at 11:18 PM
What I meant was, what is the actual code that the second one uses to access the first.
I dont really care actually :P It has just taken me 23 hours to apply for one job. After that I dont care if I never work again. Only that one looks
super simple except part 2. Other questions were normalise a very simple table and a simple SQL select joining three tables. I havent been to bed
before midnight for 8 days. I look like Jon English and feel like Ozzy Osbourne. Gnight.
And thanks again.
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posted on May 31st, 2004 at 11:39 PM
Tests are often written in another way than the main code to ensure that the assertion is true using two different algorithms. Look up unit testing
and Extreme Programming in Google.
ie:
Andrew
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posted on June 1st, 2004 at 12:29 PM
Buy whatever YOU feel comfortable with. AMD or Intel, both are having trouble with new technology at the moment. Both are charging far too much for
this new and bad technology. Anything you buy now will be out of date in a year or so, with little chances for upgrades.
My advice is buy something with as little cash outlay as possible, but buy quality brands with good warranty. I have an AMD 2600+ based system at the
moment. It was cheap and runs well. Saying that a P42.8 based system can be good too. These would be my picks for a decent (not latest and greatest)
system at the moment. In my opinion, buying a bleeding edge system at this point in time is just a waste of your hard earned dollars...which you could
spend on your VW
After all that I'll say again - do what you want, not what someone tells you
My 2 cents...
[Edited on 1-6-2004 by EgeWorks]
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posted on June 8th, 2004 at 11:20 AM
Do I look different at 3GHz????
I been playing with my new toy. Started putting it together yesterday afternoon, went to bed at 3 am. I luuurv it. Only thing is I need an operating
system that can take full advantage of it. Using 98 while still while waiting for XPII. Its sooo fast. When you click on anything stuff happens
instantly. Takes about 15 - 20 seconds to boot up. Have to have really good reflexes to hit delete and enter setup. Stupid instructions say hit
ctrl-f1 which i did a thousand times thinking I was too slow but then I looked at a screenshot and it said hit delete. bastards. I guess it will slow
down somewhat with XP. Tried to install 2000 but stupid thing wouldnt recognise the SATA hard drive. Fitted an old IDE and it worked OK, but I think a
lot of this extra speed is from the HD. Only thing I am dissappointed in is that my 3 drives are all in different stages of yellowing and look a bit
yuck. And I cant afford a sexy flat LCD screen :P.
I got the 64 bit system as suggested by you andrew so if anything goes wrong... I have your number :P
2 things. 64 bit Athlons were hard to get. Most places had none left, prices going up. RAM isnt as cheap as it was either And there isnt much of it,
at least not in Kingston. Only had 1 gigs left. I ended up getting 'kingmax', dont know the quality of that. Who cares.
Now just sit back and wait for MS to come through with the goods and hope that its stable. Pentium 500! Ha, me laffs in yer face.
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posted on June 8th, 2004 at 07:36 PM
setup/config problems
OK so being a fitter mechanic screwing things together in a case was simple. But im getting some strange things happening. When I shutdown, my monitor
has a spack attack. Says
SELF DIAGNOSTICS
CHECK SIGNAL CABLE
NO SIGNAL
And that moves around the screen like a screen saver. It also does it when I am away from the desk and the puter goes into sleep mode.
Also when I shut down, the mouse (usb but ps2 adapter at the moment) stays powered up. The LED remains lit.
But the one that annoys me is that I cant make the new you bewt hard drive the boot drive, if I have my old hard drive plugged into an IDE socket.
I've been into the BIOS several times and changed it from HDD-0 to HDD-1 to 3 etc but it just seems to assume that whatever number I give, that old
hard drive is the one to use. It has 4 IDE connections on the MB. I've tried using 0 and 1. I have stumbled around blindfolded and changed the jumper
pin thingo from master to slave and back. there are a couple of other options I think one was something about cable select and the other wasmaster
with non ATA compatible slave. I suppose I have no real need to have the second hard drive in there apart from not having to install all my programs
and copy documents over, which would only take a couple of hours (less than I have spent farting around) But surely its possible to do it.
On the bright side I did manage to get my daughters PC up and running with the correct graphics and sound card, something that has eluded me in the
past.
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posted on June 8th, 2004 at 07:57 PM
Chris,
Lucky, lucky bugger! Order yourself a copy of the XP preview for AMD 64 from the link I provided above and watch your PC scream. When SP 2 comes out,
XP will be fully supported as a native 64 bit release. If you need a native AMD64 SP2 build, I can get you a post-RC1 IDW or if you can wait a few
days, I can get you RC2 as an ISO, which will work for like six months.
98 is slower under all circumstances than XP. There is no benchmark XP will not win against it, except for shutdown. 98 simply has less to do. Booting
XP from a clean install on your PC from a SATA disk will take about 10 seconds (it takes 15-20 s on my XP 2200+ with ATA 133).
The mouse is staying lit when asleep or off, the BIOS is prepared to wake the PC if you tap the mouse buttons. Turn that off in the BIOS and it will
go dark.
The monitor is fully switching off - you need to play around with the BIOS and see if there's an DPMI mode which leaves it in suspend. XP just tells
the BIOS to hibernate the monitor as it goes down.
On the SATA front - if you boot with no other IDE drives installed, what happens? SATA is often presented to the BIOS as a SCSI interface. Try making
"SCSI" the top boot order and see if that helps. Newer BIOSs are aware of SATA natively, and should offer "SATA" as a choice. SATA shouldn't
require "master" or "slave" configuration.
Andrew
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posted on June 8th, 2004 at 08:05 PM
I'll have another go at it tomorrow. There were a few options in the boot order I wasnt sure of. Bill is almost on and I am going to fall asleep
after last nights marathon. In the process of applying for job at tax office so peple will hate me.
Dunno what you are talking about rc12buckle the shoe idfs are mad carbs, but yeah sounds good. I think :P
[Edited on 8-6-2004 by amazer]
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posted on June 10th, 2004 at 11:38 PM
for an idea about raw parts,
go to http://www.cuparts.com.au
if you call speak to Andy, say you spoke to scott and pete,
And I was SOO
excited.
posted on June 8th, 2004 at 11:20 AM
