| [ Total Views: 2867 | Total Replies: 63 | Thread Id: 41024 ] |
| Pages: 1 2 3 |
|
|
 jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
| posted on July 15th, 2005 at 11:38 PM |
|
|
Hey dubber 91,what sort of dollars all commitment would it take to set this project up?JVLRacing
|
|
|
VWCOOL
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 5158
Threads: 235
Registered: June 19th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: In the shed... Lake Macquarie NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy to help
|
| posted on July 15th, 2005 at 11:44 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by dubber91
to me the rotary is the way to go. The engine rebuilds are potentially easier (not necessarily cheaper) and working where i do (a test/proving track)
i work with injection every day. I may even have a play with the fuel map and see what happens....
its says something, however, when one manufacturer, has spent around 12 year developing an engine, that is more efficient than any other conventional
engine after a hundreds year development.
They arent better...but the potential is there i beleive...
|
There is a reason why no other manugfacturer on the planet has taken up the rotary and mazda has only ever offered it in 'niche' models. They are
actually horribly inefficient... Good specific power output for capacity/weight/size etc but efficiency is disgusting due to large surface area of
combustion chambers etc etc. A Subie won't need rebuild for 300,000km at least with routine oil changes and proper (ie: not aftermarket)
management
Which PG? Anglesea? They're all fun!nn[ Edited on 15-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
|
|
|
dubber91
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 3
Registered: June 24th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on July 15th, 2005 at 11:56 PM |
|
|
as a test engineer at a european proving ground, i agree with what you have stated. There are other advantages though. Ease of rebuild for
instance.....when it does require one, with modified stock components, i have seen rotaries with 150k on REBUILT engines. They are a doddle to rebuild
and arent as expensive as you may think. They also wont blow gearboxes apart with unuseable torque; a beetle is a light car it doesnt require all of
the torque that modified VW engines and scoobies put out. I agree though, scoobies are a very reliable well made engine...just not my bag. I want to
stand out and i prefer revs and slipping clutches rather than torque and snapped driveshafts. Emmissions wise the rotaries are bad; i know this, and
also fuel consumption wise. But find a car that can develop the same HP figures and through back good fuel consumption and ill pay you for the
blueprint hear and now.....:vader
They have got a bad reputation, but i have never had one fail badly on me...
Steve
Man who stand with hand in pocket fel cocky all day
|
|
|
jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
| posted on July 16th, 2005 at 12:03 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWCOOL
| Quote: | Originally
posted by dubber91
to me the rotary is the way to go. The engine rebuilds are potentially easier (not necessarily cheaper) and working where i do (a test/proving track)
i work with injection every day. I may even have a play with the fuel map and see what happens....
its says something, however, when one manufacturer, has spent around 12 year developing an engine, that is more efficient than any other conventional
engine after a hundreds year development.
They arent better...but the potential is there i beleive...
|
There is a reason why no other manugfacturer on the planet has taken up the rotary and mazda has only ever offered it in 'niche' models. They are
actually horribly inefficient... Good specific power output for capacity/weight/size etc but efficiency is disgusting due to large surface area of
combustion chambers etc etc. A Subie won't need rebuild for 300,000km at least with routine oil changes and proper (ie: not aftermarket)
management
Which PG? Anglesea? They're all fun!nn[ Edited on 15-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
|
Vwcool,so does this mean you believe in subie motors.... all done a few conversions yourself?JVLRacing:o
|
|
|
 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on July 16th, 2005 at 06:41 PM |
|
|
I just like engine conversions to look neat and like they are meant to be there.
|
|
|
jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
| posted on July 16th, 2005 at 11:02 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Helbus
I just like engine conversions to look neat and like they are meant to be there.
|
Hi Pete,got any photos of bus with subie in it.It would be great to see!!!:thumbJVLRacing
|
|
|
71superbug
Custom Title Time!
The Itch Itcher
Posts: 1184
Threads: 72
Registered: May 20th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Subified
|
| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 09:40 AM |
|
|
i agree with dubber 91, rotarys have a bad rep..but with a bit of work they can be realiable enough.
sure if u pump 500+hp out of the things they wont last long..but then again..look at a hypo vw motor.
they dont last too long without rebuilds. and even then they cost the same amount to rebuild with less gains.
rotary is also the way i am going.
i also once said on Shoptalkforums..that the rotary will have more than enough torque to push a vw wherever it wants to go.
Anthony
|
|
|
jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 10:43 AM |
|
|
Ok,which Rotary would be the best to work with...especailly with the reliability 5oohp factor?JVLRacingl
|
|
|
71superbug
Custom Title Time!
The Itch Itcher
Posts: 1184
Threads: 72
Registered: May 20th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Subified
|
| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 01:20 PM |
|
|
a lot of rota ownerrs seem to have success with the 13bturbo. ????
obviously the newer the better.
im not sure what you mean by what you said jvl.
Anthony
|
|
|
jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 09:59 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 71superbug
a lot of rota ownerrs seem to have success with the 13bturbo. ????
obviously the newer the better.
im not sure what you mean by what you said jvl.
Anthony
|
Anthony,I thought the 20B would be a better motor to work with then the 13B!JVLRacing
|
|
|
VWCOOL
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 5158
Threads: 235
Registered: June 19th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: In the shed... Lake Macquarie NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy to help
|
| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 10:03 PM |
|
|
Maybe it is too large - physically and legally
Pay your debts, CxxT
|
|
|
helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 10:32 PM |
|
|
It is not far away now. I may have time to put the donk in next weekend. I am working hard at making stuff neat and factory looking. I want it too
look like VW put it in there.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by jvl054
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Helbus
I just like engine conversions to look neat and like they are meant to be there.
|
Hi Pete,got any photos of bus with subie in it.It would be great to see!!!:thumbJVLRacing
|
|
|
|
71superbug
Custom Title Time!
The Itch Itcher
Posts: 1184
Threads: 72
Registered: May 20th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Subified
|
| posted on July 18th, 2005 at 06:30 AM |
|
|
the 20b is too large legally..definately..classed as a 4 litre for some reason.
also..the 13b would have much more of a following and more people in the know about it..hence me saying the 13bt would be the best one to work
with.
Anthony
|
|
|
dubber91
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 3
Registered: June 24th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on July 18th, 2005 at 08:55 PM |
|
|
mwahahahahahaha i love livin in the UK...... no laws on 20bs...
20 Bs are VERY rare, however. as i beleive they are 3 rotor. This also makes them a lot harder to fit in the stck rear end. A 13b will require
trimming of the rear valance and will be very tight if you use eurothane mountings and dont just solid mount the gearbox. It is very close to the
firewall, and it i likely that pulleys need to be fettled slightly to get the rear end in. The major issue for me at the moment (i need it ready by
this tuesday) is induction design; it looks like im going to have to run decklid off for a while until i can CNC up some flanges to mount up an
airfilter. I honestly beleive that this conversion can be done for less than £1000 sterling if you do it yourself. I dont know what that is in
dollars.
I have spent time and money developing the proceedure though; getting mounts/brackets/flanges made up is easy, but i make sure the pattern is right in
the first place. The rotary will look like VW put it in there. The exhaust can be made to fit under the rear valance, and theres pleanty of room when
putting it in. The engine mounting point is th most difficult part to get looking stock. I think ive achieved it. I will have pictures shortly.
If it gets in on time, the conversion will have taken about 6 days solid work.
steve
Man who stand with hand in pocket fel cocky all day
|
|
|
jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
| posted on July 18th, 2005 at 11:00 PM |
|
|
Bring it on Steve!!!!:thumbshow us some photos of the rotor.JVLRacing
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8641
Threads: 561
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on July 18th, 2005 at 11:15 PM |
|
|
Hi
Im not sure how the NSW RTA works out the size on rotaries but they say "The engine capacity to be used for rotary engines is the displacement of
all rotors x 2" So a 12A is 2400 cc and the 13B is 2600 cc, so I guess a 20B would be 4000 cc. Way to big for NSW rego and some other states.
dubber91, if your running IRS, move your tranny forward to give you more room.
Steve
|
|
|
jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
| posted on July 18th, 2005 at 11:31 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
Im not sure how the NSW RTA works out the size on rotaries but they say "The engine capacity to be used for rotary engines is the displacement of
all rotors x 2" So a 12A is 2400 cc and the 13B is 2600 cc, so I guess a 20B would be 4000 cc. Way to big for NSW rego and some other states.
dubber91, if your running IRS, move your tranny forward to give you more room.
Steve
|
Hi Steve,bloody cold up here,snowing up Guyra 2hrs from here.Anyway is Queensland RTA laws different to ours?JVLRacing
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8641
Threads: 561
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on July 18th, 2005 at 11:45 PM |
|
|
Hi John
Im pretty sure that Qld uses the same rules as NSW. There is a move to make all states the same, dont know when it will happen. Weve got a Jetmaster
open fire, I feel no pain.
Steve
|
|
|
jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
| posted on July 18th, 2005 at 11:55 PM |
|
|
I suppose best project for a 20B for a dub racecar.The fitting of the motor would be tight but with something like mind it could be done.The parts:o
could be rare all hard to get your hands on i suppose.JVLRacing
|
|
|
dubber91
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 3
Registered: June 24th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on July 19th, 2005 at 12:42 AM |
|
|
parts are an issue. One vehicle to look out for i beleive is a mazda cosmo or cosmic....something along those lines.
I could potentially cut a large section from the firewall in front of the engine) and move the engine back, but i'd rather just trim the valance
slightly. It will look more stock. My main issue are with radiator and ventilation. Im thinking of using the little horn grills to duct air onto the
radiator...its certainly a possibility. Plus then the front scoop would be smaller and more factory looking. Ill get some pictures soon 
Steve
Man who stand with hand in pocket fel cocky all day
|
|
|
seagull
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4979
Threads: 752
Registered: December 25th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: PerthWA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on July 19th, 2005 at 02:03 AM |
|
|
I think I have seen that mazda , the gear box is so light you can lift it ( with one finger ) seen it in a book .
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
|
|
|
71superbug
Custom Title Time!
The Itch Itcher
Posts: 1184
Threads: 72
Registered: May 20th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Subified
|
| posted on July 20th, 2005 at 07:36 PM |
|
|
yeah its the cosmo 20b.....very hard to find over here..only a few around..and knoweledge of the things is even harder to find.......so 13b is
definately the way to go......anyone know anybody selling any rotarys? whether they are 12a NA carby fed or 20bTT motors. anything inbetween would be
good to know also.
would have to be in good runnning order.
Anthony
|
|
|
dubber91
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 3
Registered: June 24th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on July 20th, 2005 at 08:18 PM |
|
|
i dont know of anybody, but i'll tell you now that 12as are the only ones that fit correctly into the engine bay. Ive just had to trim mine away
(only a small amount though) around the lip of the engine bay. I have an early valance, aso i dont know about superbugs etc....
steve
Man who stand with hand in pocket fel cocky all day
|
|
|
crewcabconnection
Custom Title Time!
Being Sid James
Posts: 1922
Threads: 293
Registered: April 22nd, 2003
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Looking forward to week 10
|
| posted on July 20th, 2005 at 08:32 PM |
|
|
r u talking split bus - where does the rad go? if not up front, outside...
Loves a lolcat
|
|
|
dubber91
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 3
Registered: June 24th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on July 20th, 2005 at 11:49 PM |
|
|
im talking bug....
Man who stand with hand in pocket fel cocky all day
|
|
|
jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 12:04 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by dubber91
im talking bug....
|
what model, year is that rotary from?JVLRacing
|
|
|
dubber91
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 3
Registered: June 24th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 12:40 AM |
|
|
a 1988 rx7. Non turbo. Its a 13b engine.
Man who stand with hand in pocket fel cocky all day
|
|
|
jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 08:15 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by dubber91
a 1988 rx7. Non turbo. Its a 13b engine.
|
Do you think after doing your project that other people in the UK will do projects with rotors.......all subies still the way to go
for projects? Any reason why you did not use a Turbo 13b?JVLRacing
|
|
|
dubber91
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 3
Registered: June 24th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 05:05 PM |
|
|
volksfolks over here tend to go with the subbie lump. Mainly because its a flat and works with vw gear ratios.
They are plentifull over here too.
I prefer the rotary engine; no valve noise! smooth as a smooth thing!
And they dont develop enough torque to kill gearboxes if you slip on the clutch.
Rx7s have a bad rep over here. See past that and people will do the conversion; its whether people can look past it thats the issue. I can get the
adapters made up though.....
Steve
Man who stand with hand in pocket fel cocky all day
|
|
|
helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 08:47 PM |
|
|
Rotors are an aquired taste. I went passenger in my brother inlaws 12A powered Mazda and the smooth continual torque was great. It was like a huge
elastic band was released and was pulling you towards it.
|
|
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 |
