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 pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on May 9th, 2006 at 10:04 AM |
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Just been looking at ya car again. Would I be right in describing the engine and gearbox as being "stress bearing members" in the chassis?
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tassupervee
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| posted on May 9th, 2006 at 08:27 PM |
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Pete
Ummmmm...stressed member?????? yer i spose you could see it that way.
Unlike a fully stressed engine in a motorbike, were the engine basically replaces the cradle in the frame.... this thing is basically slung there.
Yer you could certainly say its stressed into the chassis.
Further up the post is a pix of the front mount i had to modify. Thats the only mount at the front of the engine and the engine is only retained onto
that rear crossmember by the two top bellhousing bolts.
It amazes me the engine and transmission actually stays in there as all the lateral loads are dropped into those 2 M10 bellhousing bolts. The fore and
aft movement of the axles is taken care of by the trailing arms.
The front mount only has to deal with the engine wanting to rotate around the axles under power so does not need to be very heavy duty. Its only
really a method of setting the engine rake in the chassis.
Rotational loads generated by power and moreso braking in the axle tubes are dumped into the chassis via the trailing arms.
The way the chassis (where the crossmember bolts on) is triangulated by the rear diagonal (roolhoop) braces would render the front mount to little
more than and engie steady really (it only has an M8 bolt thru there), but at the end of the day, the engine does become a lower chassis "rail".
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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tassupervee
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| posted on May 9th, 2006 at 08:45 PM |
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A little more:
I finished the new battery box which has been fabricated to suit a particular battery and that has been brazed into position.
I also painted the last of the bits and bobs I have had to fabricate such as the oil cooler brackets and the belly pan/zorst combined mount and blew
some paint over the chassis repairs.
While i was playing around with things, I started to look at the way the starter and battery wiring was done and it was a bit of a horror with cables
here and there, bolted together and insulated with bits of split radiatir hose and bound up withy insulation tape.
The car is started with an external battery that plugs into the side of the car with an "Anderson" plug. The way all these heavy guage wires ran was
pretty horrible so out with the razor blade and the wire cutters and I stripped it all out.
The master switch is located near the top of the RHS roll hoop and this system was positive side switched meaning 2 heavy guage leads ran from the
lower LHS corner of the engine bulkhead, right across the chassis and all the way up the rollhoop...........bah over 2 meters of leads. The master
switch is now a negative side switch and only one cable needs to run up there now with a tiny little jumper going from the switch directly to the
rollhoop. Neatens things up a bit and when the master switch is off and the external battery plugged in, no flashing and smoking surprises when
fiddling with the battery and or the starter!!!!
I have re-fitted the engine/transmission and all that remains is to refit the suspension pushrods and the trailing arms.
Lastly is the refitting of the fuel tankand lines, throttle linkages, wiring, gearshift rods and so-on...........plus a couple of sidepod screws and
4 dzus fasterners for the bodywork and the car is ready to rock.
THEN, its off to the wheel aligners for a front and rear alignment!
I hope that will be done either this weekend or early next week and then its time for a wheel at Baskerville to see if it was all worth it!!!!!
Isnt one off development fun?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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tassupervee
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| posted on May 27th, 2006 at 09:39 PM |
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Have completed nearly all of the job now save for a wheel alignment.
I could not arrange one on the weekend would you believe.
This is Tasmania after all!.
I fired the engine up ther opther night which has spurred me on now. The engine sounds very "bright" running on the high output Pertronix Ignitor 11
system and is very easy to start.
The exhaust note from the new system is simply awesome. However, it is very loud compared to my older system. It breaks into the most fiendish bark
above 3500 rpm!! The barking howl when you close the throttle at high revs is sernsational!
Plenty of little detailed (Iread time consumiong) jobs have been completed as well.
I ran into another issue with my "secret weopon" still air box. I had decided to mountthe fuel tank about 20mm higher but I had fabricated the
airbox to sit on the fuel tank at the old lower height.....................now it doesnt fit under the bodywork doesit!
Oh well, pulled it out and reshaped the front of it to clear the fuel tank and al is well. Sadly tho, the light guage ally sheet had to be
straightened out and re-bent again and it looks rather second hand now. Ill either make another one or I migh carefull panelbeat this one and use it
as a mould and strap one up out of glass-fibre....dunno, we shall see as time goes by I spose.
In order to preserve as much battery power as possible, i have wired the aux battery connection below the master switch. this means i can start and
run the car solely on the aux external battery and then simply switch the master switch on and pull the aux battery plug out so all pit running will
be done on the aux battery.
Unlike the old points/coil system, The Pertronix electronic ignition system takes a dim view to low battery voltage and will not tolerate a partially
flattened battery which results in the dreaded 4 to 4500 rpm missfire so the running battery will only ever have to run the car during the actual race
and not whist in the pits.
I have installled rocker cover breather hoses which connect to a 1 litre ally catch tank I got off Ebay. $25 dollars! You gotta love Ebay!
The original crankcase breather and rocker cover breathers all come together at the catch can.
Well gentlemen, it has been an interesting "journey" modifying my car. I have growled, sworn at it, screamed blue murder and simply given up in
disgust and shut the shed door during this phase of development but the end is at hand.
It kinda feels rather strange knowing I dont have this freakin great list of jobs to do in order to get it going but at the same time its a relief to
know that I can get down to the business of actually doing some on-track development rather than workshop development!
I am really loking forward to doing plenty of laps and analysing the data collected on the laptop to see if my changes and modifications resulted in
any improvement at various points on the track.
I use a Michron 11 datalogger in the car which is actually a karting datalogger that i have modified to work on the 4 cylinder boxer engine. I picked
it up for 400 dollars a couple of yers ago and it is the most valuable peice of kit I own as far as on-track tuning is concerned.
It only uses, speed, time and rpm as inputs along with 2 temp analogue inputs but using the software for it, I can break the track down into 1 meter
or 1 second intervals simultaneously displaying engine RPM and wheel speed along with gear position which shows me EXACTLY whether I have improved or
buggered the car with a particular setting change. All the track corners are broken into 3 segments, entry, mid-corner and corner exit and I can
instantly overlay the data from previous tests on top of the latest tests to see if a change has actually worked.
Sometimes, a change will result in similar lap times but a pick up in certain corner speeds which means that altho I am not any faster in overall lap
time terms, I am faster in certain situations and I become extremely difficult to overtake. Very handy for tuning the car to be a mobile road
block!
I reccommend ANYBODY who does ANY circuit racing and is even vaguely serious to consider the purchase of a data logger. The stopwatch only tells part
of the story!
An interesting observation which only becam aparent with the logger was that if i remove the engine belly pan from the car, straight line outright
speed was affected markedly to the tune of about 100 rpm at Baskerville and 125RPM at Symmons Plains! I find I dont really have time to closely look
at the tacho just when I am about to bury the brake pedal at a hundred miles an hour but the datalogger does not lie.
I can also input some Co-efficient of drag (CD) and weight figures and the datalogger will log horsepower as well on a simple XY graph.
I found this useful when comparing major tuning changes and this clearly showed the changes I had made to an older engine with different porting and
zorst pipe configuratrions by raising the torque peak nearly 800rpm and significantly extending it as well!. The torque figure itself was almost
identical but raising it about 800rpm and widening it showed a significant increase in horsepower right where I neede it higher up in the RPM
range.
So, those of you that are still awake after my wafflings may be interested in my test results which i hope to carry out in the next week or so.
I still have the same set of tyres to run on as last time so the test comparisons will be very relevant to one another.
Once I have actually run the thing and have some numbers to crunch Ill write up a bit more and well find out if al this effort has been worth it.
If there is anything further you'd like to know or want to see pix of any particular components of the car, feel free to pm or email me anytime.
Until then.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on May 28th, 2006 at 09:43 AM |
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great stuff, can't wait to hear how it goes. :thumb
can you show us a pic of the whole car finished now?
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tassupervee
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| posted on May 28th, 2006 at 06:02 PM |
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Pete
I havent actually put the car on the ground just yet.
I lift it onto a workstand in the shed and where it is I cannot fit up the entire bodywork!
Im waiting for a couple of M8's to come down and well set her up on the floor and do the wheel alignment the olde fashioned stringline method.
I need someone in the car the same weight as me sos i can set the ride heights and then string it up and see where we are.
As soon as I have it fully dressed up with the decals, numbers and stuff ill post up some pix of it from different angles.
Its a very sleek and businesslike looking jigger now. The new paintscheme has altered the apparent lines of the car quite a bit really at first
glance.
Curiously, the car has definitelt taken on a "female" kinda visual "feel" to it whereas before it seemed a more "blokey" car..............kinda
hard to explain really unless you have spent as much time with it as I have over the last coupole of years!!!!
It really does look very speccie now tho and the pix I have taken so far do not really do it sufficient justice.
L8tr M8
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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koolkarmakombi
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| posted on May 28th, 2006 at 07:19 PM |
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Mate, I love your work! Kudos to you 
Out of interest, what do you do for a crust?
Also, can you point me in the direction of what ppl do to build f vee engines? As in what are the usual 'tricks' to make them go.
Serious piece of kit you have there mate. Just need some nitrous for serious overtaking!
kkk
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tassupervee
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| posted on May 28th, 2006 at 09:43 PM |
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Bwaaahahahahaha thanks for the kind words tripple K!
Umm, im a heavy truck driver M8!
Im an aircraft maintenance engineer by trade (Qantas) and Im a qualified motor mechanic but ive not gotten my hands dirty for a living in a long time
now!
Errrrrm "Make them go" hahahaha!
F-Vee and "make them go" is pretty much mutually exclusive really.
The tricks to making a good vee 1200 engine go are mostly in the really detailed stuff, engine balancing, polishing lifter bores, lightweight valve
gear and the choice of head castings and the portwork.
The rules on the engine are fairly strict in Oz and we are only allowed to use a control cam made and doctored by Wade and a control inlet manifold
on 1200's.
Its a prick of a cam actually and the stock 1200 (40 horse) can is actually a better option.
Its all in the detailed preparation really and there are precious few "performance" options allowed.
valve sizes are stock and the port openings must be less than a specified amount.
The carby is a carefully prepapred 28 PCI (36Horse) thing and the crank, pistons and rods are stock and have a minimum weight.\
The only room to move is withinin the actual ports themselves, a 3 angle valve job, degreeing the cam and the design of the zorst pipes.
The very best engines only produce perhaps 5 to 8 Hp more than the very worst stock engines. They usually produce much the same torque as a stocker
but are forced to do it at higher RPM hence the power increase.
The real difference with a good engine is its ability to rev to around 6500 rpm reliably on a 28mm carb throat and stock valve sizes.
The "new" 1600 TP vee engine are even more difficult to get to rev up reliably and a well built 1200 is often faster down a straight than an
ordinary 1600 as the 1600 will pull the lesser engine along in the draft but the 1200 will produce more HP right up in the rev range whereas the 1600
will sharply drop off power at high revs.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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tassupervee
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| posted on June 25th, 2006 at 11:40 AM |
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FINALLY!, I took the much modified Kestrel out to Baskerville yesyrday arvo for some testing.
My apologies in advance tho. This post rambles on for a while and i reckon only those interested in circuit racing will still be with me at the
end!
At the end of the day, i was very lucky I had called a M8 of mine on the way there as bonehead here had left his wallet behind. I live about 30 mins
south of Hobart and had agreed to meet my M8 at a servo and I was about to pump some fuel for the race car and realised I had left the wallet at
home...............idiot! I would have had to turn back and go home and that would have made the entire day a waste of time.
Anyway Adam bailed me out with some cash.
The track conditions were very cold and windy and the track was pretty dirty. Just as i fired the engine up, the rain started......christ, this is
going to be fun. Old wooden Brigestone RA500 tyres, over inflated to buggery on a dirty track that has just been rained
on...........................oh well, bugger it, this is Tasmania! Were made of stern stuff down here!
Greeted with a track somewhat like an ice-skating rink and the first time I have wheeled my car for close to two years!!!. Im seriously considering
entering the next Driftmania day at Baskerville. Some of the slides I caught and held had me pissing myself with laughter inside the helmet. So much
so I fogged up the visor and couldnt see shit!
Oh well, press on. Southern Tassie is a strange place weather wise. Weather here is... errrmm.... predictably unpredicdable.... (make sense?)
When the shit comes from the south-west, you get a rain shower and always followed by sudden clear and a fucking cold wind. Good thing is the wind is
so dry, the track dries in the space of less than 5 minutes.
So, onward I go, the first task is to try and clean off the old rubber on the (very cold) tyres which is always an entertaining task in a
Vee......NOT!
Secondly, to bed in the brakes.
Once the track dries this thing is actually feeling like a race car again.
As always the frontend of the Kestrel is very predictable and "pointy" but the rear end is generating very good mechanical grip but it goes away
violently when it looses.......yuk.
On a track like Baskerville this kind of behaviour makes for a very long and taxing day!
The tyres were cleaning off and the engine was making excellent power. I noted that my main straight RPM was well above anything I have achieved in
the past. The new pipes I have fitted which belong to my new race motor really like my old engine and I find I am regularly revving the old girl to in
excess of 6000rpm. It never made power up there with the old pipes.
The brakes are really good by now, front grip is good and the steering is delightfully precise but I still have this violent loss of grip on the arse
end, particularly in slower corner exits?? This is directly the opposite of the previous suspension setup.
Im still very very rusty on what is an extremely demanding (for the driver) race track and finally the engine looses its edge, the oil pressure drops
like a stone and the temp guage has gone skyward.....eeeeyew!
It turns out that the engine had thrown its fan belt and altho I have an indicator on the dash to let me know no air is going into the engine, I
failed to see it. I was very lucky I didnt fry the engine as it was smoking and crackling when i shut it down.
Refitted the belt, fired it up to cool it off.....no real dramas. Fair bit of smoke from the zorst tho. Oil pressure back up and oil temp back to
80Deg.C.
Measure the tyre pressures when I stop reveals there been almost zero pressure rise and the treads feel cool to touch.
Ok, drop the pressure back to a colder friendly 16Psi front and 18psi rear and out we go.
This time the car is up to speed withing 2 laps. The rear end loss of grip is now quite predictable and actually fun to test out. The car is extremely
"pointy" and I can place the nose anywhere on the track I like.
At the end of the session, and only because I actually ran out of fuel, I had put the car back into the 64 to 65 second bracket.
Now this sounds pretty slow (which it is) but remember, im running tyres that should have gone into the rubbish bin many races ago, have never seen a
track in close to 2 years and are running on an entirely different suspension configuration they they have ever known.
The last time I raced the car, on these very tyres, I only managed to run in 65 seconds flat on a warm and sunny spring day with no wind and other
cars to pull me around so im very encouraged by this.
Sadly, i was unable to get any datalogger testing results as the timing beacon was not receiving and unless it reads the beacon, it wont record any
data so i could not tell where I was going fast or not.
Now, some observations on the new suspension setup.
The rear mono-shock setup is smooth, handles the bumps well and is far more controlled and compliant on the very harsh Baskerville surface than the
original single leaf spring and twin shocks.
It is so good i could think of NO adjustment I could make save for ride height (to try to induce a little more rear grip) The car feels very
sophisticated and tied down in the arse end and is a pleasure to drive!
The front end is a little bity iffy but initial impressions are that any dramas it has will tune out easily enough.
The front ride height settled quite a bit over time and resulted in a 45mm ride height which reduced front end grip in slower corners quite a bit. the
front end was firmly riding on the Aeon (rubber) springs alone and was fairly harsh and easily knocked off line making the car fairly nervous in the
straights.
However, the reverse was true under hard braking where the front-end became rock stable and predictable????
Given the bump steer tendency is to toe out, this kinda makes little sense to me.
Another thing is that the front end does not have enough caster and is very light in the steering with virtually nill return to centre, and made worse
by the sagging front end.
I think a couple of degrees of caster here will tone this down.
The new steering rack is deliciously direct, but, unlike the old box, transmits enourmous amounts of feedback from the track making the car a bit
tiring on the hands and wrists to hang onto after a lot of laps. However, it now steers more like a superkart which I am more used to.
The rack is only marginally faster in ratio than the stock T3 box it replaced and is an absolute pleasure to steer.
Some final overall observations are:
1: The car is now very stable in really high speed, high G turns whereas before its forte was the tighter stuff and its ability to track over rough
surface and still make grip. High speed turns were always a bit of a headache in this car which would compromise straight line speed. basically, the
faster the car goes in a corner, the more stable it is and the better the grip.
2: Slow speed corners now are a different animal.
The car is predictable but seems more prone to corner exit oversteer. This oversteer is very predictable now, (and vastly entertaining) but slows the
car on exit. It may be me being too savage on the steering and throttle but in the past, the car was alway rock steady in slow tight stuff. Its not
bad now, just different.
3: The front end is quite harsh over the rough surface and is not tracking well in a straight line but amazingly enough, will ride the kerbs with
considerable aplomb!
My car was alway sweet in kerb hopping and soaked up the punishment well with the old fashioned and long travel LP front-end. It now bounces pretty
hard over them and lofts the inside wheel a fair way but the overall stability of the car sees it land back on its wheels, kinda bounce a bit and
continue on with little deviation in line. With the greatly reduced front suspension travel and increased front roll-bar stiffness (now a 19mm bar as
opposed to a 16mm), I was alway concerned with the behaviour over kerbs. Insted of knocking the car offline or into a wild oversteer, it simply
bounces over the kerbs and tends to knock the front-end across the track rather than the arse. This is very good and encouraged me to ride some pretty
savage kerbs with confidence.
I think a lot of this stability here is due to the new rear end soaking up the punishment better than the front.
3: The rear suspension setup is just so superior in every respect to the old setup i cannot belive it.
There was nothing out of the ordinary with my old single leaf/twin Koni shock arrangement that has served F-Vees for so long so i think I have arrived
at something really good with my new setup.
Altho the rear end is very firmly sprung (in comporison to the leaf spring), it soaks up the rough stuff with real style!
I made no adjustment to the motorcycle shock at all. The dampening was set to mid point (about 25 clicks out of 50) and it did not fade, bounce or do
anything. I am seriously impressed with my 60 dollar shock over a, say 1000 dollar Penske jigger.
I doubt I could make an adjustment to it that would improve this beautifully stable and compliant suspension apart from raise the ride height to
induce a little more mechanical grip and try to calm down the corner exit oversteer.
In closing, the cars is definitely faster now than before, bearing in mind the very cold conditions, seriouly wooden and rooted tyres and my lack of
practise.
The changes have resulted in the car generating far more grip and stability in the really fast turns but has really changed its behaviour in the very
slow stuff. Its not really worse, just different in the tight stuff.
The initial corner entry on trailing brakes in the fast stuff results in the car roll-steering (drifting) gently in and when its going where i want it
to just hammer the throttle and it just sits down and blasts out.
Mid corner grip and stability is awesome but the exit slides will have to be ironed out. I cant quite get my head aound this just yet. It actually
wheelspins on exit, noted with considerable amusement by my M8 who is a total horsepower freak!
One of the most awesome corners anywhere in the world is the approach up the hill to "Skyline" (turn 5) at Baskerville.
This is a very steep hill to climb and the corner is completely blind as the track drops sharply away and to the left and in order to make the corner,
you have to turn in to the corner BEFORE you can actually see it.
The initial turn in is done on the crest of the hill and the car is extremely light and nervous here and with my old suspension setup, I would pull
4th gear just as the car turns in and hold it flat thru the corner.
Its a white-knuckle ride around there i can tell you and has reulted in many a car burying itself in the tyre walls close to the exit, but the new
suspension'ed car seemed to want to fade up the track here on turn in. It was again, quite stable but seemd to just drift up the track.
This may be a function of the stiffness of the front end and its too low height but its a cause for concern. Once again tho, stabiliuty was very good.
perhaps a personal fear factor in play.
Turn 6 (Calvins Corner) is a real hairi raiser as well as the approach is quite steeply downhill and the track drops away sharply and has a lot of
positive camber here which is reassuring!
However, as the turn opens out on exit, the track flattens and actually drops away on corner exit due to the crown in the roadway. This always result
in the car fading sharpyl up the track to a marauding ripple strip which has brought undone a legion of unwary drivers who have let the cars up onto
this beast of a kerb!
I find i can approach this turn now with so much more confidence and once setup, I can plant the throttle hard and the car simply shoots out. Steady
as a rock, and no fucking exit oversteer!
Corners speed here is vital to be able to stay ahead of a following car towing down the straight or indeed to be able to get a run at a car in front
and this has always been a dram with the older setup.
My straightline speed is now about 200rpm faster at the end of the straight. This is very good indeed as i used to get eaten alive on the straight due
to a relatively slow corner exit at Calvins.
So, thats about it for this thread ladies and gentlemen.
As mentioned before, this has been quite an interesting "journey into the unknown"!
I am heartened by the high speed stability of the thing and my main concern is that I have not lost any speed on the previous setup. There is plenty
of potential in the thing and I know I have a top engine to race with now. My old clunker I used today is getting pretty tired now.
If any of you are still with me here, thanks for you patience and time.
L8tr all
A
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
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| posted on June 25th, 2006 at 02:49 PM |
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great stuff. so all the hard work was worth effort, eh?
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tassupervee
A.k.a.: Knob Jockey
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| posted on June 25th, 2006 at 08:10 PM |
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Yer it was Pete.
It can only get better with some more development.
I have completely stripped the arse end out this arvo, seperated the 'box from the engine and am preparing to refit the new engine in readiness for
next sunday.
I gotta rob the tinware, the inlet manifold, dizzy, gennie stand, oil pump and front pulley from the existing engine tho as the engine i bought does
not have these goodies and I dont have any spares right now.
I cant wait to give this thing a run at Symmons next Sunday!
L8tr M8
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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malcolm
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| posted on June 25th, 2006 at 08:16 PM |
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could that front setup work in a bug to go to coilover set for wheel clearance even the rear could work.
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on June 26th, 2006 at 12:21 PM |
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whats the difference between your old and new motors?
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tassupervee
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| posted on June 26th, 2006 at 06:54 PM |
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Malcolm
Yep! If you wanted to you can adapt this kind of clobber to anything....however, its a matter of whether the results are worth the effort.
Im my case, it was more done out of vanity than anything else.....and because i can!!!! LOL.
In a road car,,, i couldnt see a lot of advantage other than to create clearance or something.
Pete
Altho the engines are both professionally prepared, the new engine is light years ahead in development. My old engine was ported in the old fashioned
way when engines were expected to rev to perhaps 5500 at most and so the ports are very large in volume to produce good low down grunt.
The new engine produces much the same torque as the older one but the engine will make power way higher in the revs resulting in a wider torque
curve.
This engine will happily rev to 6500 before valve float sets in and the porting done to the heads along with the shape of the valve seat cuts has been
done to minimise the increase in port volume which tends to kill the engines up high in the revs.
Kinda sounds contradictory, big ports=less power up high, but in the Formula Vee scheme of things, bearing in mind the limitations of the crappy
camshaft we have to use and the tiny 28mm PCI (36 horse) carby and the stock 40 horse valves, the way to get them to rev AND produce torque is to keep
the port volumes down to a minimum.
The whole show changes when you factor in that different casting heads vary significantly in performance and performance potential as some of them do
not take to beign ported at all whereas others are really good.
Good Vee engines are not just built from a box of good parts, they are arrived at, as a result of continuous development and constant fiddling in
order to achieve a set of components that all work together to give a good balance between the width of the torque spread and where in the rev range
the torque peak is produced.
You can make a 1200 Vee produce more horsepower on a dyno but at the expense of the width of the torque spread and bearing in mind we are hamstrung
with a given set of diff and G/box ratios which means the high horsepower engine that looked so good on the dyno sheets is actually functionally
useless on the track due to the precious short period of time the engine actually spends in that narrow sweet horsepower spot!
Not much point having all that go is the rest of the field pisses off out of sight while you are still winding up the rubber band!!!!!!!!!
L8tr M8
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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pete wood
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| posted on June 27th, 2006 at 03:29 PM |
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very interesting. How much power does a good motor make?
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tassupervee
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| posted on July 3rd, 2006 at 08:52 PM |
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Pete
It depends on who you talk to and how the dyno was operated as HP figures can be "manipulated" quite easily on a dyno by tweaking a few operating
parameters whilst doing power pulls.
However, in the high 40 are is a good indication.
there are some pretty interesting claims of in excess of 50 HP around but its doubtful these figures are relevant. If so, it even more doubtful the
engines are legal.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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tassupervee
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| posted on July 3rd, 2006 at 09:32 PM |
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I raced the now much modified Kestrel at Symmons Plains on Sunday.
With a fresh set of tyres on and a drying track, I managed to qualify 4th fastest on the first drive in almost 2 years.
I think I have arrived at something quite special with this car after actually being able to compare it against other Vees in a race.
The real standouts are braking and mid-corner speed.
The braking of the car is quite sensational. Immense power and feel in the pedal and the harder you brake the straighter the car pulls up. It doesnt
shake its head, squirm around or dip its nose.
With the very limited bump travel on the frontend, the dive is only just noticeable now and this car simply looses speed at a rate i would never have
imagined in such a regal and unfussed manner that in the end, I was not even bothering taking my hand off the gearshift under severe braking in the
heat of competition! Doing that into the hairpin at Symmons is as close to suicide as you care to get but this car just goes straight. Even locking a
wheel only manages to twitch the steering wheel!
If I am anywhere near another car approacing a braking area, i just move over, wait till I see his nose drop and then lean on the pedal and just drive
on by then stand the car on its nose knowing I can turn it in so late. It really is that good!
The corner turn-in is stable and predictable but the real standout trait here is the sensational mid-corner grip and stability!
Never have i felt so comfortable in a Vee as this thing now and I know i have a lot more in me yet.
Remember, I have not driven the car for almost 2 years and I am no spring chicken anymore!
The car simply turns in with no fuss and settle down onto the outside tyres and just motors along out with no fuss, squirming or sudden false
moves!
The corner exit speed is very good but the car is prone to long and graceful slides out of the turn if the throttle work is too savage. Its amusing to
do and must look speccie from the sidelines but sadly it looses a fair bit of drive out.
Im not quite used to this trait tho but i modified the way I used the throttle and the drama went away. There is so much mid-corner speed that the car
simply carries this speed on exit with less throttle and away it goes.
The nice thing is if it does go tail-happy, it does it in such an unhurried and graceful fashion that instead of dreading hanging it out as in the
past, i found it amusing to occasionally do it on purpose out of the pit turn. Evidently, the circuit commentator was as amused as i was!!!
Overall, the car behaves in a very businesslike and "aloof" manner and the car is easy to drive and rides well. The rear suspension simply soaks up
any bumps and just doesnt do anything wrong. It feels very tight but never harsh.
The frontend is a little less sophisticated in its ride qualitybut it is so grippy and "pointable" in any part of a turn that i was at pains to
adjust anything.
My mates who were with me noted that the car appeared exceptionally fast thru the corners compared with the other cars and they also said i was simply
eating them up under brakes but all was not well with the engine which was well down on power and i was left way behind on the long pulls along the
straights. This is a mystery as my new engine is a proven high horsepower engine but not today!
My day was made a bit of a trial with a couple of gremlins in the form of a flicked off fanbelt in qualifying, punted off in race 1 by a poor fool who
thought he could match the braking of the Kestrel....managed to hit me on the rear outside wheel on a left hand turn and spun me off the track to the
right! Go figure some people.
Race 2 ended early when a loose bleeder nipple on a rear brake caliper emtied the master cylinder and i had no rear brakes. (WTF)
The final straw was in race 3 when working my way to P3, the engine front pulley simply fell apart. There was a disc of 1mm steel sitting on the crank
with the bit that actually carries the belt sitting in the engine undertray........
Since a spare could not be found, it was time for the trailer.
However, Im simply over the moon with the results of the good laps I actually did and all the previous months of hard work have paid off with a car
that is simply unbeatable under brakes, is able to be placed anywhere on the road on corner entry and is stable and grippy in fast turns and is an
absolute pure pleasure to drive really fast!
When I get the lack of power mystery sorted and in the future, pare of a bit of weight off the car, it should be an absolute weopon!
Yeeeehar!!!!!!
L8tr all
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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tassupervee
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| posted on July 25th, 2006 at 09:55 PM |
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Heres a nice pix of the car running hard at Symmons Plains.
I have run into a bit of an engine breathing drama which causes the engine to chuff out oil past the front pulley.
Not a huge amount but enough to coat the front of the case and spray back a bit along the exhaust pipes.
My old engine always did this and i didnt pay too much attention to it really but when i described what was going on to my new engines builder he felt
the breather system was way too small. After decsribing my system he nearly choked!
Interestingly, they are using around 30mm breathers to the catch can by modifying the existing filler post!
Sadly, I cannot run my existing catch can as there is no provisions for adding such a large inlet AND outlet along with 3 other breathers so ill have
to fabricate a new custom tank to get the job done properly. Bah!
More later
E
[ Edited on 25/7/06 by tassupervee ]
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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JVLR
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| posted on July 26th, 2006 at 08:39 AM |
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Hey Tassy,Progressing nicely.Good stuff.:thumbJVLR
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tassupervee
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| posted on July 26th, 2006 at 09:40 PM |
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Another one.
This is going into the hairpin at the end of the front straight at Symmons
This type of shenaigans went on lap after lap. I could just sail up and past these two guys under brakes but theyd gobble me up again down the back
straight.
Id get them again in the braking area at the end of that straight and they blow past me agin down the front straight and the cycle would repeat untill
the dude in the yellow Trowbridge (#5) must've got fed up and put his elbows up and punted me off in the braking area at the end of the back straight
after I rounded him up for the umpteenth time!
I have NO idea how I get punted off to the OUTSIDE of the track when I have passed him on the INSIDE and could see him in my mirrors....go figger.
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on July 27th, 2006 at 09:59 PM |
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I tried mounting my rack and peanut steering like that and had shocking bump steer.
After some reasearch, the rack needed to be mounted further forward, but I had built
the chassis around the rack, so I modified it to a center pivot on the rack
and extended the seering arms on the stubs.
Once the steering rods were at an angle that was closer to the trailing arms, the bump steer was minimal.
Funny thing is, on the stock short side(VW tie rod), the bump steer is less than on the side with the long tie rod!
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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tassupervee
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| posted on July 28th, 2006 at 06:56 PM |
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Dave
yes your right.
If the rack is positioned right agains the back of the beam tube the bump steer is minimal. There are a couple of nasty arcs of movement working
against us with a trailing arm beam suspension.
However, with the rack I am using there is little support in the rack body to handle radial loads which would be imposed on the rack during hard
turning and id expect the rack bushes to slog out in short time.
However, in my application, I used that very handy bit of kit that Baja Wes made up which predicts bumpsteer based on the X,Y & Z co-ordinates of the
steering rack.
After messing with the position of the rack I placed my rack in such a position that bumpsteer was minimal bearing in mind the very limited range of
suspension travel I need to use in a Formula Vee.
In my case the suspension only bumps about 25mm and droop is about 10mm from static ride height.
The bump steer is no worse or better than the stock arrangement within these parameters but go outside this range of movement and the wheels simply
turn by themselves!!
I did however optimise the position of the rack to have the least amount of bumpsteer actually during bump. The bumpsteer increases faitrly
dramatically on droop tho.
Since it toes out on droop I dont really care and it has proven to be a non-event as far as any handling woes are concerned.
There is another very nifty rack that has come on the market after i purchased mine that operates in a similar fashion to a Camira rack and the tie
rod ends pick up right at the centre of the rack. It is lightweight and compact in size and surprisingly cheap.
However, experience has shown right across the Formula Vee board that this kind of rack, altho really desireable, is not absolutely necessary.
However, it would be just the ticket for a road car that employs more wheel trave or a fast drag VW that needs some weight off!!!!!!!!!!l.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on July 29th, 2006 at 02:46 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by tassupervee
However, it would be just the ticket for a road car that employs more wheel trave or a fast drag VW that needs some weight off!!!!!!!!!!l.
L8tr
E
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Hmmm, whatwas the brand? :thumb
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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tassupervee
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| posted on July 30th, 2006 at 07:14 PM |
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http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=320_626&osCsid=ec43f10ce2...
Part no 1 CPR415119 RACK & PINION - OFFROAD
Approx cost $170.23 US
L8tr
E
[ Edited on 30/7/06 by tassupervee ]
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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