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 baybuscamperkid
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| posted on April 14th, 2007 at 04:54 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
next question....
How cool is safe?
the new setup works so well that it won't warm up properly. Even today (26deg outside) sitting in traffic, it only got up over 75deg once and when we
got going it went back down to 70 and stayed there. On friday, I drove along the M4 for 10 minutes at 90km/h in 3rd gear @ 4000rpm and it struggled to
get up to 70degs.
So How can I get it to warm up?
I don't mind it running cool, but I worry about the oil working properly at such a low temp.
Just so you know, the thermostat is rated at 76deg and now has a 8mm hole where the flipper valve was.
Ay ideas? Should I run different oil? Do I need a hotter thermostat? Is 65deg ok for long periods?
[ Edited on 12-4-07 by pete wood ]
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have you looked for something as simple as a faulty thermostat that is sticking open? i also agree with what many are saying that the thermostat does
seem mightly low open temp, I am sure mine was about 85+
Reimagined/Recycled/Upcycled Cool
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pete wood
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| posted on April 14th, 2007 at 05:27 PM |
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I'll pull it out and test it, but as Brad said, I think I need a new one anyway.
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ratbug
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| posted on April 14th, 2007 at 09:19 PM |
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| Quote: |
I'll have a beer, cheers! 
My VSS runs from the front wheel, the fan kicks in when I pop the wheels up  (I had to install the VSS as my Ign kept cutting out on a constant throttle setting)
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I got the same things happening on the dyno, as it wasnt spinning the front wheels in which the VSS is connected. Check engine light came on, then 2nd
pass it cut out, so had to reset it.
P.S. Pete.. get rid of the hole!
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ElusiveStranger
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| posted on April 14th, 2007 at 09:28 PM |
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Cheers Ratbug, wouldn't have thought about that - noted!
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ricola
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| posted on April 20th, 2007 at 04:39 PM |
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Have you sorted the problem Pete?
Rich
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GeorgeL
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| posted on April 22nd, 2007 at 03:19 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ricola
...A lot of people also have problems when using engines with return mounted thermostats in the middle or rear of the car, a thermostat mounted to the
outlet is a good fix for this and is what I plan to do on my WRX karmann cabrio..l.
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This seems like a natural solution, and it still mystifies me why Subaru used a thermostat on the cold side of the system. It seems pretty Rube
Goldberg to have to add plumbing from the hot side of the engine simply to supply a signal to the thermostat.
Anyone know of any logical advantage to the Subaru way of doing things? It doesn't seem to be too much trouble to add an in-line thermostat housing
to the coolent outlet, but I don't want to overlook something that would damage the engine.
George
[ Edited on 23-4-2007 by Baja Wes ]
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MickH
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| posted on April 22nd, 2007 at 09:20 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by GeorgeL
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ricola
...A lot of people also have problems when using engines with return mounted thermostats in the middle or rear of the car, a thermostat mounted to the
outlet is a good fix for this and is what I plan to do on my WRX karmann cabrio..l.
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This seems like a natural solution, and it still mystifies me why Subaru used a thermostat on the cold side of the system. It seems pretty Rube
Goldberg to have to add plumbing from the hot side of the engine simply to supply a signal to the thermostat.
Anyone know of any logical advantage to the Subaru way of doing things? It doesn't seem to be too much trouble to add an in-line thermostat housing
to the coolent outlet, but I don't want to overlook something that would damage the engine.
George
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Subaru have done this to ensure the operating temperature of the engine is uniform throughout the engine....not "some" of the engine running cooler.
A more even operating temperature throughout the entire engine will lead to longer life due to better engineering practise and more uniform operating
temperature.This is proved by the long life and more even wear characteristics of their engines. They use the thermostat to regulate the engine
temperature,not the water temperature going out of the engine,which is the case with most other engine manufacturers. It actually makes good sense if
you want a very uniform operating temperature of the engine.
[ Edited on 23-4-2007 by Baja Wes ]
tssnq.com.au
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pete wood
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| posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 12:18 PM |
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I just went looking for a thermostat at my local parts shop. Neither of the two high quality aftermarket suppliers make an 85deg thermostat for an EJ
motor. That includes EJ20s and everything else. They are all 77deg. Mick are you sure your thermostat comes in at 85deg and not 77deg?
Otherwise I guess I have to ring expensaru and buy a genuine one, but I'd rather not. 
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MickH
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| posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 12:23 PM |
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82 degrees..genuine Subaru.The outlet water temp will be slightly higher,as the water has been through the motor.
tssnq.com.au
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pete wood
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| posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 12:32 PM |
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Just rang subaru at Parramatta. the geniune one is $4 cheaper than the aftermarket :duh who'd have picked that eh?
the guy couldn't tell me the temp, but they have a few in stock so I'll swing by and have a look at one later on in the week.
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pete wood
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| posted on April 29th, 2007 at 12:23 AM |
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subaru won't sell me one without a chassis No...which I don't have.
All the aftermarket jobs are 78degs.
Mick is there any chance you could get one and post it to me? I'll send you some cash.
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1303Steve
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| posted on April 29th, 2007 at 11:43 AM |
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Hi Peter
I had the same trouble when talking to Subaru about parts for my motor. I called the head office and they were able to give me the VIN that lined up
with my engine number. My motor is a local motor, not a JDM.
Steve
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pete wood
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| posted on April 29th, 2007 at 10:17 PM |
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mine's an import so I'm stuffed! :cry
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ratbug
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| posted on April 29th, 2007 at 10:56 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
subaru won't sell me one without a chassis No...which I don't have.
All the aftermarket jobs are 78degs.
Mick is there any chance you could get one and post it to me? I'll send you some cash.
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I get asked for the chassis number as well, but when i explain that its an import motor, and its going in a VW they still help me out. I guess they
don't want to sell you the wrong thing and be held reponsible, but it is only a simple thermostat. I was in there buying things like crankcase bolts.
I would take the old parts in, and go through it on the screen that shows the exploded engine and then pick the bits and match them up.
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MickH
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| posted on April 30th, 2007 at 12:03 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
subaru won't sell me one without a chassis No...which I don't have.
All the aftermarket jobs are 78degs.
Mick is there any chance you could get one and post it to me? I'll send you some cash.
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I'm outa action for a week or 2. Think outside the square kohi....go to a carpark where you will find a 2.5 Subaru woteva and either ask the owner
for their VIN number or get it off the rego sticker.The thermostats were not different in the 2.5 engines just because they were an import,they will
be the same. If not able to do that go to Subaru dealer (personally) and TELL them you need a thermostat for a 2.5 motor in an engine transplant car
or something.If they don't help you it would mean they don't like you or you will never be able to get parts for your engine again as you don't
have the magic number.......which is not a good thing as the original timing belts are also cheaper than aftermarket items. Failing that I can ring up
and get the part number you need...:jesus
tssnq.com.au
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1303Steve
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| posted on April 30th, 2007 at 09:00 AM |
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Hi Peter
Take the car down to Subaru spare parts department, I'm sure that they would get a kick out seeing it. I know when I told the local Subaru dealer
what I was doing they got very enthused.
Sometimes these parts guys need just need a little encouragement, surely it cant be that hard to compare the part numbers between different models.
Steve
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pete wood
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| posted on April 30th, 2007 at 08:30 PM |
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wwwwwwooooooo hooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! I FOUND ME ONE!!!!:bounce
Huge thanx to Bruce @ Subaru who put me onto the Subaru Parts warehouse guys who checked the part for me. :kiss
It had us all stuffed, but now I know the part no. and that the thermostat actually exists. I was beginning to wonder. The interesting thing is that
Subaru installs 78deg thermostats in all of there cars. The other part no. only came up by accident. I'll post the part no. later.
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pete wood
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| posted on May 1st, 2007 at 01:03 PM |
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Here is the part No.
Part No. 21210AA080 - 82deg thermostat and gasket for all EJ engines (EJ18-25) 1993-98.
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pete wood
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| posted on May 2nd, 2007 at 06:00 PM |
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picked it up today. new thermostat is now in....$46 later. now all I have to do is bleed up the system. 
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on May 2nd, 2007 at 07:46 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
picked it up today. new thermostat is now in....$46 later. now all I have to do is bleed up the system.
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.....just drill a hole to help the air bleed out...........:P
From memory,the Aust delivered cars were fitted with aircon as standard,hence the cooler thermostat. Ring a parts dealer overseas in your "spare"
time and ask about the thermostat part number that you were given..most likely matches a chassis number for a car not factory fitted with aircon. Make
sure you put it in with the bead closest to the water recirculation point.:beer
tssnq.com.au
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MikeM
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| posted on May 2nd, 2007 at 10:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
Here is the part No.
Part No. 21210AA080 - 82deg thermostat and gasket for all EJ engines (EJ18-25) 1993-98.
picked it up today. new thermostat is now in....$46 later. now all I have to do is bleed up the system.
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Below is the Part No. for Aussie Delivered factory EJ22 parts. I bought a set last month from City Subaru in Brisbane, No Chassis #'s, just walked in
with a part #'s.
Thermostat - 21200AA072 - $26.15
Thermostat Gasket is - 21236AA010 - $4.15
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pete wood
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| posted on May 3rd, 2007 at 12:54 PM |
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Mike, that is the 78deg thermostat you have there. It's $20 cheaper than the 82deg one and a whole heap easier to get.
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TristanJ
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| posted on December 7th, 2009 at 08:57 PM |
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Optimum temperature for EJ22
Along the same lines as this post I have a question. My suby powered bus is using a shitload of fuel, and one thing I notice is how long it takes to
heat up. It also never runs in the 90+ temp range. Does anyone out there know at what temperature the computer stops the 'cold start' program
which I imagine 'richens' up the air/fuel ratio.
My thought is because I run a very large radiator mounted on my bullbar and I too drilled a hole in my thermostat there may be a possibility i may be
in constant warm up mode.
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GeorgeL
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| posted on December 8th, 2009 at 06:10 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by TristanJ
Along the same lines as this post I have a question. My suby powered bus is using a shitload of fuel, and one thing I notice is how long it takes to
heat up. It also never runs in the 90+ temp range. Does anyone out there know at what temperature the computer stops the 'cold start' program
which I imagine 'richens' up the air/fuel ratio.
My thought is because I run a very large radiator mounted on my bullbar and I too drilled a hole in my thermostat there may be a possibility i may be
in constant warm up mode.
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That is very likely. If you have a big radiator it doesn't take much flow to overcool the engine. Ask anyone who runs an auto-based engine in a
powerboat!
One idea I've seen is to remove the inlet thermostat and put a thermostat in an in-line housing at the engine's coolent outlet. This turns the
system into a conventional system where the thermostat senses the temperature at the outlet.
Do you have the bypass hooked up? You might get good results by simply going back to the stock subaru thermostat.
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TristanJ
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| posted on December 8th, 2009 at 08:59 AM |
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I think I will put a pop rivet in the hole and just see where that gets me first as I have the heater circuit connected (looped back on itself) and if
it starts opening and closing erratically I can just drill it back out again. I guess changing the position of the thermostat is really not justified
unless I know whether my fuel consumption is linked to lower temp. When the engine eventually warms up, it runs above 80 degrees, so unless the car
is still in warm up mode above this temp?
Any comments appreciated.
I still think I should take the radiator off the bullbar and install two boxter rads either side of the engine bay (just to fire the debate up
again...).
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ian.mezz
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| posted on December 8th, 2009 at 11:38 AM |
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I have a Subaru turbo in my bug and I run a little single core Radiator that is lucky to be half the size of the stock Subaru one , my temp is good.
I tried to have the same amount of water in my bug cooling system as the Subaru
if you have some big radiator u could cover some part over.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on December 8th, 2009 at 11:46 AM |
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I think some peoples Radiators are just to big
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GeorgeL
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| posted on December 8th, 2009 at 03:52 PM |
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Well, if you have a good temperature gauge the easiest way to figure out what is going on is simply to block the radiator with cardboard. Keep a
close eye on the temps and if they get too high open the radiator up a bit more.
I think that most of the problems that people have with the Subaru system relate to the heater feedback loop. The Subaru heater core is much smaller
than any that we might use to heat our buses and therefore doesn't lower the temperature of the feedback coolant as ,much. Oversizing the radiator
itself might also contribute to temperature cycling.
The ultimate solution seem to be Tom Sheil's housing that separates the heater return from the feedback loop:
http://www.subaruvanagon.com/tom/Thermostat%20housingk.htm
He claims that this allows the engine to run continuously at 96C regardless of radiator return temperature.
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TristanJ
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| posted on December 8th, 2009 at 10:31 PM |
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Just looking at Tom's adapter, it occurred to me to put a T piece in the hose which connects to the steel barb (looking at Tom's photo in the link
contained prev post) to the right of his adapter in the original housing which by my reckoning is the same point in the cavity above the thermostat.
A lot cheaper than US70 bucks plus shipping. Comments?
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TristanJ
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| posted on December 9th, 2009 at 08:46 AM |
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Please all disregard my last post, actually understanding the operation of the adapter rather than skim-reading does wonders. Apologies.
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