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 fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 01:39 PM |
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This is the most interesting post in Circuit Racing for a while. Lets keep it to constructive advice and opinions rather than let it degenerate into a
stroker vs stock session.
I raced with Jak and his stroker engines of various capacities. His engine was no less reliable than mine.
As others have said the heads and cam can make or break the combination.
I picked my level 5 DRD heads from aircooled.net on the promise that they had good air speed. I thought the 40 x 35.5 and the smalll mini-D-ports
would suit the capacity.
I also wanted to keep the valve train conservative with lift and valve diameter (weight) yet long duration. That's why I chose the Engle 130.
I was disappointed by the heads. But the combo seem quick for what it is. The main problem is fuel stand-off at 2500rpm due to valve overlap or an
ineffiecent exhuast or something. It makes the fuel curve really rich and occasionally the car hesitates.
Whenever you're in a 60 zone, which is most of the time, in 4th it's always on 2500rpm or there abouts.
My combo is similar to Stan's combos. He's probably the way to go. But my advice is to stick with his formulas, specs and head recommendations.
Don't deviate.
Regards CT
esratrams
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colin
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 08:39 PM |
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So wether we go for a stroker or a 1776,1916 i think? we all agree that its the combo you chose and the application that makes the difference.
ie reliable street power, no stress low revs maybe 2176,2332.
compition under 2000cc well maybe thats were the little 1916 shines.
I dont know about whether a 1916 or a stroker will have any affect on gear changes though.I mean if anything a stroker will pull you out of a slower
corner with more drivability than a high strung 1916 combo.
So lets dream a little.
My dream street motor,
94mm pistons and barrels
84mm berg crank
fk 87 cam with straigh cuts
my cylinder heads and rocker gear(sorry secret squirrel info)
comp ratio 11.0-1
my 48idas and manifolds (again secret squirrel)
msd 6al with billet dizzy 2 step launch
and of course my good freind larry to build it ,
Cheers Col
ie and dynoed by blue here in Tamworth,
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 10:42 PM |
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yeah, we must not forget there was once this almighty stroker that dominated hillclimbs too tho.
it's still around waiting for a dreamer like me with a wild set of throttle bodies to add an E8, do the check through and fire it up........funny
how dreams turn to reality before you know it
and no there won't be a build up thread this time around
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Cam
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| posted on April 21st, 2008 at 12:39 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dumone
yeah, we must not forget there was once this almighty stroker that dominated hillclimbs too tho.
it's still around waiting for a dreamer like me with a wild set of throttle bodies to add an E8, do the check through and fire it up........funny
how dreams turn to reality before you know it
and no there won't be a build up thread this time around
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Now this sounds interesting? *enter fishing smiley here*
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BeetleJuice
A.k.a.: Craig Paton
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| posted on April 23rd, 2008 at 06:53 PM |
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Who's car was it? And what engine?
Was it a panned car or a modified chassis car?
CP
FringeDweller
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mactaylor
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| posted on April 23rd, 2008 at 07:14 PM |
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the car was a green one me thinks and it was piloted by a mad man way to much mullet involved. however wit was before its time, only a few boys were
capable of the HP and track setup at the time all cred to who where involved!!!!!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on April 25th, 2008 at 08:12 PM |
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Might be a sidetrack, but I just had a thought. If you are serious about racing, picking your class can really help a lot. I entered a motorkhana a
month back in a very crappy hatchback aiming to win my class and succeeded. I was not the most powerful car in class and I had buggered shocks and
street tyres but I won anyway. Why not try entering the 1301-1600cc class and stick with a really tight 1600 and work hard at competing within the
class. It would certainly be cheaper partswise and a lot nicer on your gearbox. Remember the porsche salzburg rally beetles were using 1600s and
getting 120hp (flywheel?) at 6500rpm. All the specs for them are on the web. If you want to ungrade to a larger capacity class you can do it later.
Worth thinking about I reckon. 
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 25th, 2008 at 09:01 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by mactaylor
piloted by a mad man way to much mullet involved.
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I think you mean 'mull' not mullet  ....................Ah the Kombi
dutch oven,and the smell of Elf racing fuel............those were the days 
C'mon Dumone get the old beast back on the track 
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on April 26th, 2008 at 04:24 PM |
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wrong on the Elf race fuel there Craig........ that smell didn't come from the green bug
yes, a resurrection is on my list..........
1776
EJ20
hellstroker buggy (100+ KW at the wheels)
V6 supercharged kombi
oxyboxer supercharged/intercooled EFI...........just because.
i'm always welcome to throw money into any off these bottom less pits, some needing more than others, all needing good time. i have sure learn't a
lot just looking and talking. Getting your hands in there and having a go is the best way.
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colin
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on April 26th, 2008 at 09:01 PM |
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Hey Daimo, one day a very long time ago, like about maybe 10 years Greg Bendl Adam Hamilton and myself took Hellbuggy up to Willowbank to race at the
Flat Fours Jamboree.It was totaly rained out so we came home the next day to Tamworth,Adams beetle broke down so Greg towed Adams car home on the
trailer leaving Hellbuggy at my place for a few weeks.
Now i can tell you i am not one to pass up a oppurtunity so one quiet Sunday afternoon i fired up Hellbuggy and went for a blat up the street.Light
weight buggy frame, 1998cc Jeff Unwin Hellbug motor, well just use your imagination.
FUUUUN.
Cheers Col
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on April 27th, 2008 at 05:33 PM |
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If I ever went with an NA motor path again id be looking at the QSC ( http://www.qscusa.com/vwparts.htm ) aluminium nikasil cylinder. Run some wiseco's in them, some ported heads, FK8 cam,
balanced crank, H beams and 12:1 - 12.5:1 CR. Add some italian 44 IDF's or EFI and youve got an easy 140-150hp, and reliable too.... to a degree. It
would be an engine i'd like to see.
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Type3Sicko
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| posted on August 8th, 2008 at 05:08 PM |
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Geez! this thread is shedding a bunch of light on a previously dark area for me, i met Stan a couple of years ago, we pulled into his place with the
intention of a quick chat (now I know) and advice on where to go for bits and pieces, i realise there are many respected and qualified motor builders,
but Stan just struck me as one of the most helpful blokes around, (how cool was that aircraft engine? magnesium this and titanium that?) i know where
i'll be taking our 61 bug and it's tired old 1600 twin...how much did you say? allowing for gearbox condition. cool thread, keep it going.
How many is enough?
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vwkg
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Schnell
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| posted on August 19th, 2008 at 02:26 PM |
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Very good read so far guys.
Keep it coming.
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on August 20th, 2008 at 11:32 PM |
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hey Damo.....why the "berg" in front of everything ?
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on August 20th, 2008 at 11:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
hey Damo.....why the "berg" in front of everything ?
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because you're going to do the pobjoy one
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on August 20th, 2008 at 11:41 PM |
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WOW..........Damo I added up your bill for the 1776, just on $11,000 without carbs.............money does go fast !
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on August 20th, 2008 at 11:46 PM |
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yeah, working on a "recipe", BUT as you know all too well, buy bargains and WIN!............list prices, not my receipts.
i will finish the price break down before i post it for all to see...........quite revealing really
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Type3Sicko
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| posted on October 26th, 2008 at 08:19 AM |
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Geee Whizz! That 6k i had saved is already spent, now for gearbox, suspension, brakes..What's the turnaround time on a Pobjoy build fellas? Never one
to rush a good job, looking at next year round Feb- March. And what sort of punishment will a standard gearbox take when hooked up to a Steroid donk?
Gearbox rebuild costs? Cheers for all the info. Adam
How many is enough?
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on October 26th, 2008 at 09:04 AM |
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so what did you end up buying for how much?................
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Type3Sicko
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| posted on October 28th, 2008 at 04:53 PM |
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Sorry Daimo, i meant that the 6k i had clear in the Dub acount has been allocated to a Pobjoy donk, just need to find the time to get down and see the
Man. Poverty is owning several dubs!  Happiness is driving em
How many is enough?
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on October 28th, 2008 at 04:58 PM |
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cool, let us know how far the $6k stretches...............
and get some pics of those twin plug heads ...........evryone hears about em, no one see's them!
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Type3Sicko
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| posted on October 28th, 2008 at 05:25 PM |
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Twin plugger might take it over the 6 grand mark i reckon...here's hoping, you can bet i'll post pics when it's in...probably not till after Xmas
though.
How many is enough?
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on October 28th, 2008 at 05:32 PM |
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Whats with the twin plug head setups ive heard so little about...? Is it an effort to get a better burn when your using a head thats been semi-hemi
cut to lower the compression? Has anyone done back to back dyno/emissions and mileage comparisons with the 2nd plug turned on and off? Im just
thinking why go to so much effort when you can just plug in a 55KV CDI multi-spark system for much less effort.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on October 28th, 2008 at 06:03 PM |
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Stan Pobjoy does twin pluggers in his aero engines and in his top-end street and hillclimb motors... has done for several years. It seems to work okay
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on October 28th, 2008 at 06:53 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 2443TT
Im just thinking why go to so much effort when you can just plug in a 55KV CDI multi-spark system for much less effort.
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I'm just thinking why go to so much effort putting twin turbo's on a vw motor when you can just put a turbo subaru motor in it for much less
effort.
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on October 28th, 2008 at 07:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWCOOL
Stan Pobjoy does twin pluggers in his aero engines and in his top-end street and hillclimb motors... has done for several years. It seems to work okay
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Yeah I understand in an aircraft situation for redundancy it is required, but from a performance perspective I do wonder what the benifits are and how
well they are documented. From what ive read of the semi-hemi head cut it does lower the efficency of the combustion chamber vs a kidney shaped
chamber. Semi-hemi was mainly done to lower the CR while maintaining a close deck and was done on largish displacement engines, particularly turbo.
Aparently Gene Berg was a fan of the semi-hemi but many other big names out there are just as against that design. Twin plugging may well fix the
poor combusion burn issue through the combustion chamber of a semi hemi. If there is data it would make for an interesting read.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
I'm just thinking why go to so much effort putting twin turbo's on a vw motor when you can just put a turbo subaru motor in it for much less
effort.
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HA HA... I wasnt taking a shot at twin plugging, infact im all for modifying the hell out of something if it makes a measurable improvement. There in
lies my point..
Also, subaru engines cant displace nearly 3lt... where as a set of 104mm barrels and some autocraft heads on my current bottom end will. Mmmmm
displacement!
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VWCOOL
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| posted on October 28th, 2008 at 09:19 PM |
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it's not just redundancy; two plugs help the combustion 'pulse' across the crown of the piston where a plug isn't centred particularly well. Good
for torque.
I've not been witness to any dyno tests, but if I disable the second coil on my Nissan, it slows down...
Pay your debts, CxxT
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on October 28th, 2008 at 09:22 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWCOOL
it's not just redundancy; two plugs help the combustion 'pulse' across the crown of the piston where a plug isn't centred particularly well. Good
for torque.
I've not been witness to any dyno tests, but if I disable the second coil on my Nissan, it slows down...
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A nissan with twin plug combustion chambers? Whats that?
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Gracey
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| posted on October 28th, 2008 at 11:34 PM |
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I've got twin plug heads on a Pobjoy motor and I've tested it with twin plug ignition and with a single plug ignition and I dynoed the results using
a G tech Competition meter. I won't post dyno results because it's would be way to easy to fudge the results on the G Tech plus it doesn't really
compare to anything.
What the twin plug does is make a cammed up motor a pussycat to drive. The cam in my motor starts at 4g and pulls to about 7.5g with the right heads
etc.
Without the twin plugs the motor needs more revs for everyday driving as you would expect with such a cam. I found when I had single plugs I was using
a lot more revs between gears in everyday driving, typically I wouldn't change below 5g. I reinstalled the twin plug setup and suddenly you've got
torque off idle and around town I change at 3g or less, and the topend remained the same.
As far as semi hemi heads go I doubt Stan has ever used a set as I know he doesn't like them.
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on October 29th, 2008 at 05:27 AM |
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sorry, didn't mean to start this up here.................it would be nice to see some pics posted up for all to see and consider (i have actually
checked them out)...........i doubt for the price and acurracy Stan does the conversion, anyone would be silly enough to copy them
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