| [ Total Views: 3319 | Total Replies: 73 | Thread Id: 71523 ] |
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 vw54
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| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 07:00 AM |
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| Quote: |
So what happens when you get low on fuel, drive even slower?
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so what happens when yr swirl pot runs out of fuel
just fill up when you get to reserve and you wont have a problem
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 pete wood
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| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 08:19 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ian.mezz
Really
how many people drive ther street cars around corners that fast to need a swirl pot, its the sort of stuff the dyno shops sell to the young ricers to
go with ther monster tachos and bright yellow shifts lights  
I have two fuel injected bugs, no swirl pot and no probs
I can do all the speed limits plus a bit more around corners.
with out any prob,but I am not a boy racer
If your going to race around eastern creek race track on the week end then you may need one
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what wrong with you lot? don't drive your beetles hard? too many scones? 
I used to love throwing my 67 beetle round corner hard (particularly in the rain  ), I drive my buggy even harder at race days and that's mostly under 60km/h. Last year I got it airbourne once.
As for swirlpots, anyone putting EFI in anything these days adds a swirlpot if the car has a non EFI style fuel tank. If you have a turbo car they are
a must do, if not, they are a great idea. Don't diss them because ricers use them. Ricers use alloy wheels, stereos and turbos...do you want to throw
them all out too?
vw54, I know you have lots of experience but swirlpots are basic to a good EFI system.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 11:35 AM |
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So this has changed into a swirl pot debate hey?
There is a good thread on the topic here; http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=9938&page=1
The only person I have known stupid enough to do an EFI conversion without a swirl pot had issues where the engine would cut out when he tried to
accelerate through a T intersection with a fuel level less than 1/4 of a tank. Not very safe to pull out through an intersection and have the engine
cut.
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Brad
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| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 11:35 AM |
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I don;t have a swirl pot on any of my EJ powered Volkswagens, I am gravity feeding the VL style pump with a 1/2 line direct from the tank and have
never had any issues.
But I guess that must mean I am a scone gobbler and don't drive hard enough on or off road. For all those who have seen me drive they will confirm
this.
My EJ powered buggy gets driven about 500 km a week and thrashed around the farm on the weekend without issue.
Out of the several EJ's I have fitted hardly any of them have been fitted with a swirl pot and those who have had them fitted have seen no
difference.
By all means fit one if you want, ain't real hard, just something else to leak.
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Brad
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| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 11:37 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Baja Wes
The only person I have known stupid enough to do an EFI conversion without a swirl pot had issues where the engine would cut out when he tried to
accelerate through a T intersection with a fuel level less than 1/4 of a tank. Not very safe to pull out through an intersection and have the engine
cut.
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Hehe you forgot about ME ... and yes I am stupid enough .... in fact I am going to go out in my stupid non swirl pot fitted buggy right now to pick up
a load of 6m fence rails. I hope I can get there and back without a swirl pot.
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rocknrob
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| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 01:57 PM |
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in fact I am going to go out in my stupid non swirl pot fitted buggy right now to pick up a load of 6m fence rails. I hope I can get there and back
without a swirl pot.
now i want to see a pic of that
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Brad
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| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 05:22 PM |
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Ok I will take a picture of it for you. Just finished unloading 2 Kombi Transmissions and 2 x 44 gal drums full of Hydraulic Fluid for the BackHoe off
the back of the Buggy before I went to the hardware to get my rails, only prob was they are a sensitive new age hardware and only had crappy ass pine
so I came home without anything, will have to wait until Monday and pick them up on my way home from a real timber shop.
To date the most I have had on the back on the Buggy is 4 x 44 Gal drums full of water just to see what would happen, can you say no steering ......
now I limit myself to no more than 2 and no longer than 6m lengths.
Luckily for me as I don;t have a swirl pot I have plenty of carrying capability left in my 2.3 GVM (or whatever it is).
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vw54
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| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 06:35 PM |
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| Quote: |
. I hope I can get there and back without a swirl pot.
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So did you make it Brad ???
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 9th, 2008 at 06:27 AM |
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You can drive around with no air cleaner too (may even gain a HP or two), it doesn't make it a good idea.
I would expect every car made today has some sort of internal swirl pot, and even those sometimes aren't good enough for track work.
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Hutcho
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| posted on September 9th, 2008 at 09:00 AM |
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Thanks for your help guys.
Ive purchased a Peirburg Lifter Pump from Ebaay, a HP Peirburg pump from Injectors Online and the best bit, 2 x 3mtrs 10mm Aluminium seamless tubing
from Bunnings for 10 bucks each for fuel! Every now and then Bunnings comes through with the goods! Im also using radiator pipes from Bunnings....
After a few measurements, I think Im going to go for the 500ml Surge Tank from Tweakit.com...
Now, to install it all and start the sucker!
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liam66
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| posted on September 12th, 2008 at 08:14 PM |
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I wouldn't put fuel in anything from bunnings...ever.
Is this tubing anealed seamless ? suitable for pressurised applications? Is it even clean inside ? any idea what coatings your going to be running
through your injectors?
Bunnings, like Telstra, are not your friends, they're not their to help.
For what it's worth I'm not running a external swirl pot on my project ( ej20 Turbo J and S beach buggy). Instead I've got a new vw tank ($75) and
bought a standard wrx pump and in tank unit from ebay ($120). In tank pumps are nice and quiet and with a bit of rework it'll be set up like a
standard subaru. Because it's a new tank I'll be able to add the extra lines, a deep 'sump' and the correct boss to take the subaru mounting
plate.
I'd be extremly surprised if it suffers any fuel starvation issues- if it does than a reservoir of about a litre or so in the supply line near the
engine should solve it. A simple 1 inlet, 1 outlet job will do it.
In hardcore and competition offroad applications we'd NEVER build anything without a coolcan/ swirlpot if a lifter or low presure pump was involved.
In these type applications a lot of guys run 'hobbs' type switches (often called idiot switches) when fuel press, oil press drops or temp too high
it simply shuts the motor off or lights a huge light on the dash to tell you your having too much fun.
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Hutcho
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| posted on September 13th, 2008 at 08:59 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by liam66
I wouldn't put fuel in anything from bunnings...ever.
Is this tubing anealed seamless ? suitable for pressurised applications? Is it even clean inside ? any idea what coatings your going to be running
through your injectors?
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Maybe your right or wrong. I dont know. Yes, its annealed and seamless. I blew compressed air through it but it seems really clean anyway. Coatings
through the injectors? Ive put a 5 micron EFI filter between the Alum line and HP pump...?
I looked around and found this which in my un-proffesional opinion doesnt seem to be much different from what I got.
http://www.tweakit.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1569&osCsid=756b...
None the less, youve put the fear into me, so Ill contact the supplier and get some tech details from them and also ill pressure test the second
(unused) length I got at work.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by liam66For what it's worth I'm not running a external swirl pot on my project ( ej20 Turbo J and S beach buggy). Instead I've got a
new vw tank ($75) and bought a standard wrx pump and in tank unit from ebay ($120). In tank pumps are nice and quiet and with a bit of rework it'll
be set up like a standard subaru. Because it's a new tank I'll be able to add the extra lines, a deep 'sump' and the correct boss to take the
subaru mounting plate.
I'd be extremly surprised if it suffers any fuel starvation issues- if it does than a reservoir of about a litre or so in the supply line near the
engine should solve it. A simple 1 inlet, 1 outlet job will do it.
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Sounds good. I was going to do something very similar. I bought another Type 3 fuel tank, an intank fuel pump setup (suits a late ford) and was going
to get the tank modded up with a small 1ltr "swirl" tank welded onto the bottom with the intank pump sitting inside it. Im sure it would work but as
Im not metal fabricator, to get the tank done, was going to cost me approx $500 to get a shop to do it. So, I went with a more "bolt on" type
solution. Theres a lot of "discussion" on this thread wheather Surge Tanks are gimmicky or not, but I think it cant hurt fitting one.
Steve
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 13th, 2008 at 11:45 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by liam66
I'd be extremly surprised if it suffers any fuel starvation issues- if it does than a reservoir of about a litre or so in the supply line near the
engine should solve it. A simple 1 inlet, 1 outlet job will do it.
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A reserviour in the HP line between the pump and the motor will not do anything. If there is no flow from the pump, there will be nothing to force the
flow through the reserviour. At best it would gravity drain, which will not supply your injectors with enough pressure to do anything useful.
| Quote: | Hutcho -
Ive put a 5 micron EFI filter between the Alum line and HP pump...?
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I'm not sure what you meant here, but don't put a fine filter on the inlet to a HP pump, it will ruin the pump. The most you should run on the inlet
to a HP pump is a simple strainer. Stock EFI cars with in-tank pumps use strainer bags. Any fine filters need to be on the outlet of the HP pump.
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1303Steve
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| posted on September 13th, 2008 at 12:16 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by liam66
In hardcore and competition offroad applications we'd NEVER build anything without a coolcan/ swirlpot if a lifter or low presure pump was involved.
In these type applications a lot of guys run 'hobbs' type switches (often called idiot switches) when fuel press, oil press drops or temp too high
it simply shuts the motor off or lights a huge light on the dash to tell you your having too much fun.
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Hi
I ran both my pre pump and main pump from the ECU, no signal from the motor, no pump operation.
Steve
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helbus
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| posted on September 13th, 2008 at 04:52 PM |
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I don't have a swirl pot fitted to our bus with EJ22. It works fine most of the time. However. If I go a hard right turn when under a 1/4 tank, the
fuel goes to the left of the tank and the outlet is on the right, so I get a fuel drop out. Simple fact is a swirl pot would eliminate this problem.
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1303Steve
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| posted on September 13th, 2008 at 05:47 PM |
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Hi Hellbus
You could use a factory EFI tank if you could find one.
Steve
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vw54
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| posted on September 13th, 2008 at 06:04 PM |
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| Quote: |
You could use a factory EFI tank if you could find one
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BUt u dont need one just wasting more money
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Adsman
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| posted on September 13th, 2008 at 07:56 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Hutcho
Ive put a 5 micron EFI filter between the Alum line and HP pump...?
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What brand and where do you buy a 5 micron fuel filter? And what filter medium do they use?
What my garage isn't messy........Well chaos is a form of order isn't it?
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Hutcho
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| posted on September 14th, 2008 at 02:19 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbusI don't have a swirl pot fitted to our bus with EJ22. It works fine most of the time. However. If I go a hard right turn when
under a 1/4 tank, the fuel goes to the left of the tank and the outlet is on the right, so I get a fuel drop out. Simple fact is a swirl pot would
eliminate this problem.
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....and thats in a Bus! Considering I dont intend to slow down one bit around corners, I think Ill do the safe thing and spend the
$200, so the motor has no excuse to run out of fuel....
| Quote: | rnrnWhat brand and
where do you buy a 5 micron fuel filter? And what filter medium do they use?
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Mate, its just a standard EFi filter. Generally though, filters come with 5/16, 8mm in/out tails. This one has 3/8, 10mm tails to suit the fuel line
and HP pump infeed.
| Quote: | rnrnI'm not sure
what you meant here, but don't put a fine filter on the inlet to a HP pump, it will ruin the pump. The most you should run on the inlet to a HP pump
is a simple strainer. Stock EFI cars with in-tank pumps use strainer bags. Any fine filters need to be on the outlet of the HP pump.
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Im hearing you and understand what your saying but 1/Its just a standard replacement filter 2/My EFI 914 has the factory filter (exact same one)
before the HP pump and runs fine. Looks like its the original pump too from 35 years ago!
Steve
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 14th, 2008 at 09:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Hutcho
Im hearing you and understand what your saying but 1/Its just a standard replacement filter 2/My EFI 914 has the factory filter (exact same one)
before the HP pump and runs fine. Looks like its the original pump too from 35 years ago!
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But doesn't the 914 have the return line join in after the filter? Therefore not all the flow had to go through the filter and there won't be as
much pressure drop across the filter.
Just be careful your sure your not missing anything. Not all HP pumps are the same construction either.
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1303Steve
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| posted on September 15th, 2008 at 04:46 PM |
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Hi
There is a Type 3 EFI tank on Ebay now http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Volkswagen-type-3-fuel-injection-fuel-tank_W0QQitemZ33...
Steve
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Hutcho
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| posted on September 15th, 2008 at 06:06 PM |
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Excellent! Thanks, Steve. Its not on there now Wish I saw this
2 days ago. It would have saved me $160 
Steve.
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Hutcho
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| posted on September 17th, 2008 at 09:47 PM |
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Hi Guys,
Just in case anyone is interested, I thought Id take some pictures of the EFI Type 3 tank I had just bought and post them here. Its pretty
interesting....
This first pic is obviously looking at the top of the tank showing the main inlet which hasnt been hooked up to the inlet nozzel thingy yet...
Also shows to the right of that, the tank breather/vent which is about 18mm compared to my early non efi tank which has a 10/12mm vent.
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Hutcho
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| posted on September 17th, 2008 at 09:51 PM |
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This is the botom of the tank. The "bent' pipe is the delivery line to the pump. The pipe next to it, is the return. They are both the same size of
8mm internal. This suits 5/16 fuel hose. The delivery pipe off my old non-efi tank was smaller at 6mm.
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Hutcho
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| posted on September 17th, 2008 at 10:09 PM |
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This pic was taken at the opening of the fuel sender. I took a few and this one turned out the best. Ive described the different areas on the pic. If
anyone would like the large, detailed pics, contact me.
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1303Steve
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| posted on September 17th, 2008 at 11:39 PM |
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Hi
The factory did a nice job, Ive seen new EFI tanks for bugs on other sites, I wonder why more people don't use them?
I wonder why the factory went to all this trouble for something you don't need? (insert smiley with tongue in cheek)
Steve
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Hutcho
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| posted on September 18th, 2008 at 07:30 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
The factory did a nice job, Ive seen new EFI tanks for bugs on other sites, I wonder why more people don't use them?
I wonder why the factory went to all this trouble for something you don't need? (insert smiley with tongue in cheek)
Steve
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Hi Steve, I knew you would get a kick out of these pics. Im sure if it was cheaper for the factory to fabricate an external surge tange tank and a fit
another pump it fill it, they would have. Anyway, your right. It looks like a great job and Im pretty happy to be using it. Anyone know the fuel
circuit/setup for an EFI Type 3?
Steve
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vw54
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| posted on September 18th, 2008 at 08:07 AM |
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i would open the feed line up to 1/2 inch
what pump will you be using whats the size of the inlet on it ???
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mackaymanx
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| posted on September 18th, 2008 at 08:29 AM |
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Here is the detail of the venturi in the type 3 fuel tank return line.
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Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
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MickH
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| posted on September 18th, 2008 at 08:31 AM |
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You gotta like the way it mixes the warm return line fuel with the "cooler" fuel in the tank
tssnq.com.au
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