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 Bizarre
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| posted on November 27th, 2009 at 01:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Google Lord Monckton to hear the real story, not something from the con artists at East Anglia.
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Steve
I certainly wouldnt be using Monckton as the truth
I also have Ray Evans's "Thank God For Carbon"
None of the engineers at my work take their statements seriously - in fact the opposite
Futue te ipsum!!!
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 ian.mezz
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| posted on November 27th, 2009 at 02:50 PM |
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ok the poor people pay extra for making carbon by using power etc.
the big polluters get free carbon credits and continue to make more and more carbon???? as the demand for utilities can only get bigger.
see I don't under stand buying and selling AIR don't change anything.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on November 27th, 2009 at 03:00 PM |
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its like selling ICE to the Eskimos
Who made up this scheme David Copperfield.
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ryana89
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| posted on November 27th, 2009 at 04:38 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ian.mezz
its like selling ICE to the Eskimos
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Shhhhhhhhh!!, dont give them any idea's, they might put a tax on that next
2.0slow 92 MK2
Made in Germany, Assembled in Africa, 'Migrated' to Australia
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grumble
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| posted on November 27th, 2009 at 06:42 PM |
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So Phil why aren't you standing for govt?This theory makes sense but once you are a politician the pocket loading takes over from common sense.I
think this is why they are politicians ie they can't make it in the real world.
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amazeer
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| posted on November 27th, 2009 at 09:13 PM |
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I dont see how your argument makes any sense Phil. I think a more relevant analogy would be to put an ice cube onto a spoon. I dont think its the ice
that is already submerged thats the problem, its the ice that is above sea level. When that water melts and falls into the sea, it cant help but raise
the level.
Once upon a time there was no such thing as evolution and the world was flat. They were just fanciful claims. So far I see people believing what they
want to believe. If you dont want to believe you put up a sceptics webpage link. If your're a believer you put up a climate action link. I'm not
prepared to bet $5 on the Melbourne Cup, I'm not really prepared to gamble the planets future away.
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HappyDaze
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| posted on November 28th, 2009 at 06:18 AM |
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I suppose we can all 'do our bit' to try to save the planet, but I'm sure that the old planet will do its own thing - as it has done for millions
of years!
Cheers?, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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1303Steve
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| posted on November 28th, 2009 at 09:10 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
Steve
I certainly wouldnt be using Monckton as the truth
I also have Ray Evans's "Thank God For Carbon"
None of the engineers at my work take their statements seriously - in fact the opposite
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Hi Barry
So the engineers don't agree with his views on the climate change "industry" being about an unelected world
government that will take our tax and give it to third world countries to spend on limos and guns, are the engineers against his views because he was
in the Thatcher government, are they British?
The respected Climatic Research Unit in East Anglia has been found to be falsifying data in favour of their arguments.
A researcher has finally been able to measure the greenhouse effect, as in how much radiation comes into our planet and how much is reflected away,
the results are say that there very little greenhouse happening.
I agree that we have to look after the planet, but I don't want to go back to living in cave and bathing in a river.
Kev and Penny only want this thing through now so that they have brownie points in Copenhagen, then he can be the head of the UN further down the
track.
Steve
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MY68VW
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| posted on November 28th, 2009 at 09:34 AM |
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Sorry I don't have time today to read entire thread but..
Cut a shaft through the escarpment from sea level (it's 400ft high) put in a turbine the pressure and temp diff will cause wind currents to drive it.
Best of all it's out of sight.
In the nrth District the shadow cast by the escarpment in the arvo causes the air to cool and fall giving a nice arvo offshore most days in summer,
the natural process is there for the taking.
The steelworks sit on the some of the best realestate in the world. Overlooking the Five Islands, epic surf spots, deep water, fishing. The list goes
on.. No wonder BlueScope will fight to keep it out of the governments hands.
Southerly winds are bad, real bad in winter, snow within a 20min drive, it can be wet for weeks on end, the water is cold until January-2C less than
Sydney.
Rust is a problem.
Tuned Type IV power - shaking out the rust.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on November 30th, 2009 at 07:52 AM |
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Chris your 'ice on a spoon' analogy is like an ice cap sitting on land. It melts, and yes the water flows into the ocean and rasies the level. As it
would with adding a melted ice cube from a spoon to water that is already in the glass. No argument - melting of land ice caps will raise the
ocean.
BUT - the arctic ice cap is not on land, it floats on the top of the Arctic Ocean. If it was to melt, the total amount of water in the Arctic Ocean
will not change, and neither will the level. Whether the floating ice is above or below the level of the water underneath doesn't matter. I vaguely
remember this little science experiment from one of Julius Sumner-Miller's TV shows from years ago. "Will the water level rise in the glass rise
when the ice melts? It didn't! Why is it so?"
If every human on earth was to die tomorrow, the Earth would quickly return to its pre-human state and within 1,000 years it would be difficult to
tell we were ever here.
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1303Steve
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| posted on November 30th, 2009 at 08:29 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by MY68VW
Sorry I don't have time today to read entire thread but..
Cut a shaft through the escarpment from sea level (it's 400ft high) put in a turbine the pressure and temp diff will cause wind currents to drive it.
Best of all it's out of sight.
In the nrth District the shadow cast by the escarpment in the arvo causes the air to cool and fall giving a nice arvo offshore most days in summer,
the natural process is there for the taking.
The steelworks sit on the some of the best realestate in the world. Overlooking the Five Islands, epic surf spots, deep water, fishing. The list goes
on.. No wonder BlueScope will fight to keep it out of the governments hands.
Southerly winds are bad, real bad in winter, snow within a 20min drive, it can be wet for weeks on end, the water is cold until January-2C less than
Sydney.
Rust is a problem.
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Hi
That would be a great supplementary power source, but when everyone gets home at night and wants power to cool or heat the house, cook dinner or watch
telly, you need a base load power supply, at the moment in this country the only base power load we have is coal fuelled power stations.
Steve
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SuperOwen
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| posted on November 30th, 2009 at 05:43 PM |
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| Quote: |
If every human on earth was to die tomorrow, the Earth would quickly return to its pre-human state and within 1,000 years it would be difficult to
tell we were ever here.
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I think thats the situation they're trying to avoid.......
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amazeer
A.k.a.: Surly Duff
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| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 10:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Phil74Camper
Chris your 'ice on a spoon' analogy is like an ice cap sitting on land. It melts, and yes the water flows into the ocean and rasies the level. As it
would with adding a melted ice cube from a spoon to water that is already in the glass. No argument - melting of land ice caps will raise the
ocean.
BUT - the arctic ice cap is not on land, it floats on the top of the Arctic Ocean. If it was to melt, the total amount of water in the Arctic Ocean
will not change, and neither will the level. Whether the floating ice is above or below the level of the water underneath doesn't matter. I vaguely
remember this little science experiment from one of Julius Sumner-Miller's TV shows from years ago. "Will the water level rise in the glass rise
when the ice melts? It didn't! Why is it so?"
If every human on earth was to die tomorrow, the Earth would quickly return to its pre-human state and within 1,000 years it would be difficult to
tell we were ever here.
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I dont think they are saying that its only the arctic ice that will melt though are they? I dont think there can be any argument that the planet isnt
heating up. I want a reason why. Is the sun burning hotter? I want to know why I should just be prepared to sit back and watch our snow melt, the sea
rise, the coral die, other plants and animal species die. I want an explanation. If we're such scientists then we cant just sit back and say "just
because its always happened that way". "Why is it so?"
Solar and wind is definitely one of the answers. It works fine. It doesnt work so well at night, but then we dont use much after 7pm and the dinner is
cooked. The coal isnt so bad if you just use it as one source of base load.
I have just built a fully insulated house, with eaves, solar hot water, rain water tank which supplies toilets and laundry, and still overflows into
the street after 2 days of rain. I have only 2 small windows on the western side of the house. Lots of windows on the north south sides to allow flow
through ventilation. There's an organic vege patch out the back. And I wouldnt even call myself an enviro nazi. I have my vices. All up it cost me
about $5K. Thats nothing in the grand scheme of things. These should be compulsory for any new building.
If business were so frikken poor they shouldnt have air conditioning running in a shop thats open to the street all day. THey shouldnt have halogen
lights burning throughout the shops, the office blocks which think they are doing a service by turning their lights off for one hour per year... thats
just showing how much you are wasting every other hour of the year and how stupid and hypocritical the building managers are. My bosses put up black
helium filled balloons everywhere for a week to show how much CO2 we were saving. Never mind that they were using the lifts every day day to replace
them whihch would probably outstrip the few flouro lights that we swtiched off. Duh.
Any household air conditioner sold should come with a solar panel that can power it. Yes it wont work at night but its about carbon reduction, nobody
is saying we are to acheive zero carbon emissions.
Cars under 1.6 litres should be tax/rego free. Employed people should get passes for public transport like schoolkids which are valid during peak
periods. They should put security cameras at Oak Flats train station so that I can park my car there without it being broken into /attempted theft so
that I can get back on the trains! They'd pay for themselves in a week fer christ sake! Or how about a direct bus service that doesnt go off and do a
detour through every suburb it passes turning a 25 minute trip into an hour trip.
Maybe none of this will save the world but it would make the air cleaner and I wouldnt have to look at the dirty brown skidmark across the sky that
bastard Sydneysiders send down to Wollongong.
 
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amazeer
A.k.a.: Surly Duff
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| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 10:38 PM |
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Ooops. more than 10 lines is a rant. Apologies.
Dont need to worry about it for a while now that Abbot is in charge of the Libs. Will have to wait until after the double dissolution.
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1303Steve
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| posted on December 2nd, 2009 at 07:29 AM |
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Hi
In the hacked emails from the Climatic Research Unit in East Anglia they were found to have been discussing how earths temperature has dropped in the
last 10 years after they have been telling everyone that it has been rising.
Now that Abbot is there, hopefully wont be running headlong into a huge tax on everything so that the milky bar kid could show off at Copenhagen.
Steve
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on December 2nd, 2009 at 02:20 PM |
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Chris you make some great points and it makes good sense to go down the path of greater efficiency, solar/wind, better house design, financial
incentives for small cars etc etc. I would much rather have the government spend their resources on this, weaning us off our wasteful habits and
curbing wastage, than just bring in a huge new tax that will do zip for the environment.
I read in the Herald today that the world demand for energy is increasing at 2% per year, meaning that the Earth's energy usage will double from
today's level by 2050. Exactly how is this going to be done? As Steve has said, you need base load power. No one is going to tolerate regular
brownouts or blackouts - we want adequate power available 24/7. Wind and solar just aren't going to provide it. The only alternatives are burning
coal/gas/oil, hydroelectric, or nuclear. Australia is already the largest economy in the world with no nuclear power - we are totally dependent on
coal/oil/gas, which is non-renewable and dumps pollutants into the air. Yet we have 38% of the world's uranium reserves and we already supply 20% of
the world's demand, but no one seems to want a nuclear power plant nearby. We don't have the water resources, or the terrain, for more hydro schemes
- who will support building more dams?
Ultimately the population of the world, and its continual growth, is unsustainable. How is Australia going to support 30, 40, 50 million people in
future when we can barely support 25? How is the world going to support 7, 8, 10, 15 billion people? Something is going to have to give.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on December 2nd, 2009 at 03:08 PM |
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Its good to see that Sydney is doing their bit for the Carbon footprint by letting off 5 millions dollars of fire works for the New Year eve party
their hospital mustn't need the money Eva
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amazeer
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| posted on December 2nd, 2009 at 09:51 PM |
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Abbot wont be around in 12 months time. Not a hope in hell. He may go OK because of his anti ETS stance, but once that is dead and gone he'll be
tripping every 5 minutes. He'll make Downer seem like a genius. That's not good for anyone.
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