| [ Total Views: 2565 | Total Replies: 50 | Thread Id: 86775 ] |
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 boristherat
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| posted on October 26th, 2010 at 08:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by benjicon
| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
A standard early beetle has a stability issue when it is standard, Ralph Nadder tried to have them banned in the US and succeded with the corvair.
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Wha? Now that is funny 
Read this page
http://squid1351.tripod.com/squidsvair/id1.html
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LOL... Yeah I read that and a heap of other stuff leaving me with the same conclusion about Nadder ... twat.
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I love my Vair...and no it's not unsafe and yes....Nader is a tool on a self importance trip. How someone with so little actual knowledge was able to
scaremonger so many people is beyond me.
Oh...and my narrowed Beetle was awesome too!
1959 Mercedes Benz 190
1963 Chevrolet Corvair
1969 BMW 2002 Auto
1973 Mercedes Benz 230.6 |
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vwo60
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| posted on October 27th, 2010 at 10:24 AM |
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Nader was correct about the early swing axle corvair, it's a shame they were put out of productiont and the later cars had fixed that problem with a
different rear end, as for our beetles being unstable it the same, most cars have built in understeer but our cars have built in oversteer which most
people cannot handle,i seen a lot of beetles that have roled over the years and lowering and narrowing just makes it worse
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benjicon
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| posted on October 27th, 2010 at 10:55 AM |
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Let it go dude.
No i'm not repainting it.
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 matberry
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| posted on October 27th, 2010 at 12:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60 lowering and narrowing just makes it worse
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I agree with lots that you have to say vwo6o, but I have to say lowering does not make your beetle handle worse. IMO, unless your racing, I think the
improved ride/turning circle with the narrowed front end is woth it, with compliant suspension, they certainly handle and brake better than a slamed
ride with no travel, regardless of being less track in the front. With the light weight of a beetle, they are so quick in the front that the reduced
track is barely noticed, that is untill you get silly narrow.....yeah yeah, I here you say....where do you draw the line and fair point. I beleive
it's not legal in Qld and so therefore it's certainly at the risk of the owner to go with a narrowed beam.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on October 27th, 2010 at 12:05 PM |
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wheres the fun in stability
The lotus Elan was flamed massively by heaps of reviewers because it 'handled too well' and it 'drove like it was on rails', there was no fun
factor or edge to worry about.
Everythings dangerous to some extent, depending on the user. One could use a fluffy bear as an innocent toy for a kid, or a weapon by shoving it down
some dudes throat and chockin them to death. Just like a car.
each to their own 
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Super1302
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| posted on October 27th, 2010 at 08:27 PM |
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my super has lowered struts and handles a dream, no wavering all over the road at highway speeds, better stability by far. an IMPROVEMENT over stock,
any way who would build a car that would be out right dangerous to drive on the road, i would say that most beetles have to be physically driven,
where as new cars are at times too simple to drive and have that false sense of safety. i dont see many beetles in accidents these days, come to think
of it none lately for some time, they have been late model cars.
happy driving 
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Googlebot
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| posted on October 28th, 2010 at 12:07 PM |
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I don't want to get bogged down in this is it/isn't it safe thing, but suffice to say Australia is the laughing stock of the international car
community - nowhere is nannied like Australia when it comes to these rules, and of course the answer is it is subjective. Many Aussies will have
grown up with the 'speed kills' and 'modified cars are dangerous' mantras. Meh.
By way of perspective I have a car that the tyres are a little old and hard on. It gives me a lot less grip than new tyres. Does that mean my car
should be defected and off the road? Maybe. So where do we draw the line? Replace tyres at least every 2 years? Every 2 weeks?
A 10 year old car is a death-trap compared to a brand new car. Should cars be taken off the road at 5 years? 5 weeks?
Australia just choses to legislate it's way to satisfying the hysterical, the media, and does very nicely thank you very much $$$ off it. Of course
there needs to be rules and regulations. Australia is just out of all perspective. Is that because they're more advanced and have safer roads and
does it lead to better safety statistics? No. |
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on October 28th, 2010 at 06:07 PM |
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Hi
I have no problem with any mods as long as they signed off by an engineer.
What I can't understand is wanting to make a car do things worse just to look "cool", every modification has an up and a down side. eg lower your
car you reduce ground clearance but improve handing etc
Steve
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Barnabie
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| posted on October 28th, 2010 at 06:17 PM |
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Yawn ...... is this topic still going on ...... 
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LUFTMEISTER
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| posted on October 28th, 2010 at 06:33 PM |
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The "look" is what all car manufacturers are after. Without it we would all be driving Govt designed pillow cars. I do not understand why an
engineer needs to sign off on a modification on each and every car. Once a modification has been approved it should be logged and then everyone who
wants to do the same mod pays a small fee to follow the recomended modification. OR........... maybe its a scam designed to line the pockets of a
small elite academic group over the common users. No wouldn't happen, would it?
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
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polak
A.k.a.: Adam Pawlowski
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| posted on October 29th, 2010 at 05:43 PM |
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iv just been reading this thread and came to a conclusion that there are many ppl out there with no idea, yes its illegal, yes there are idiots out
there that take things too far, but when modifications are carried out properly they are not dangerous and alot of the time make the vehicle more
stable and safer.... i know all the cars coming out of my shop are.... sensible narrowed beams are not dangerous and dont get me started about the
comment posted that cars which are lowered handle worse... seriously, ok so all the race teams in the world are lowering their cars to make them
unstable.... give me a break. im not going to get not this and argue, as everyone has the right to their own opinion, but i plead with you, if you
have no clue about something do not try and confuse other ppl.... there is a right way and a wrong way of doing something.... if its done the right
and safe way, the chances of finding an engineer to pass it is quite high.... cheers adam
VW - helping put oil back into the ground for over 60 years |
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vwo60
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| posted on October 29th, 2010 at 10:17 PM |
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hi Adam,
As you stated it's illeagle, are the cars coming out of your shop engineered and do they have the appriate plate for the modification approval
attached, the engineer that i use refuses point blank to approve a narrowed beam.
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benjicon
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| posted on October 29th, 2010 at 10:58 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
hi Adam,
As you stated it's illeagle, are the cars coming out of your shop engineered and do they have the appriate plate for the modification approval
attached, the engineer that i use refuses point blank to approve a narrowed beam.
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I dont get it man, whats your agenda ? Are you trying to piss everyone off ? Or does your dad work for the RTA??
No i'm not repainting it.
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Gringo_54_oval
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| posted on October 30th, 2010 at 06:58 AM |
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BULLSHIIIT!!!!!!!!!
How does a narrowed beam make a bug handle worse
My bug when it sat like a bus it handled like shit
Narrowed that bitch and now it out handles any habib in their lexus
Now quit being a ball breaker
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vwo60
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| posted on October 30th, 2010 at 09:48 AM |
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The original post was about the legality of narrowing a beam, to date we have not really established that, i know that i cannot get it legally
approved, we need to let people know if it is or not, Polac, benjicon and gringo 54 oval apear to be most offended by my posts, are your cars
engineered and approved, then you can answer the original question, it seams to me that the question of legal/illeagle modification are best no spoken
about on most forums, we all have our opinions and there are new people taking up our interest and i would like them to receive the correct advice
about the legallity of any mods. that's my agenda. my 60 beetle has eight mods all legal and plated
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Joel
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| posted on October 30th, 2010 at 09:58 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
hi Adam,
As you stated it's illeagle, are the cars coming out of your shop engineered and do they have the appriate plate for the modification approval
attached, the engineer that i use refuses point blank to approve a narrowed beam.
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NSW doesnt do mod tags, its all on paper and computer so the car doesnt need all these extra tags fitted
someone must be approving atleast a few of them though cos theres lots of bugs passing pink slips each year with narrowed beams
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johny rotten
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| posted on October 30th, 2010 at 11:21 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Googlebot
Hi Guys,
These narrowed Bugs - how do you stand with legality, in my case in NSW. I'm guessing it's obvious that you would require (strictly speaking) an
Engineer's Certificate? Or does the age of the car nullify this (wishful deluded thinking?)?
Could it even be certified?
Thanks in advance.
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No it should not be certified IMO
but some shops don't care
Some shops use unskilled workers who wouldn't know any better
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polak
A.k.a.: Adam Pawlowski
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| posted on October 30th, 2010 at 03:13 PM |
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ok, FOR THE RECORD. Un-engineered beams are illegal, both lowered or narrowed, in saying that, if they are done properly by someone who knows what
they are doing they WILL make the car more stable and better handling. and YES they can be engineered, as i stated before, any beams that are narrowed
sensibly, this time to be specific, under 80mm narrowed from stock, can be engineered legally in NSW. I leave the engineering up to the customer, alot
of which choose not to, which is their choice, i never had mine engineered and never had a problem, as most inspectors would not have a clue what they
are looking at, especially if its done properly and doesnt look like a hacked up home job, but YES anything narrowed under 80mm can be legally
certified to be used on the road. cheers adam
VW - helping put oil back into the ground for over 60 years
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Bizarre
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| posted on October 30th, 2010 at 03:25 PM |
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"Caveat emptor"
"for off road use only"
Futue te ipsum!!!
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on October 30th, 2010 at 03:33 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Gringo_54_oval
Narrowed that bitch and now it out handles any habib in their lexus
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what you are describing is increased spring rate by shortening the torsion bars... which is fine. As for out-handling habibs, 20" wheels and cut
springs generally don't help handling, but then again neither does narrowing the front track, which is the other thing that you did when you narrowed
the beam. However, if you fitted stiffer shocks (pls tell me you have shocks) and stickier tyres, that would mask some of negative things you've done
to the geometry of the front end... coz narrowing screws with that too. Using adjuster to get the lower height also mucks with all sort of things and
if you have gone real low, you will be rest on the bumpstops which will add to the go-cart feel of the ride, but actually doesn't make the car
faster.
I think narrowing is a complete furfee and a gimic, but like others have said, if it's engineered and regoed properly, that's ok. Hubcaps are just
aesthetic and they are legal also.
Lowering is another issue altogether, it actually helps handling immensely, but again it needs to be done safely and legally. And... even if how low
you want to go isn't legal on the road, there are endless ways to have it easily adjustable to floor scraping while having legal ride height on the
street.
But yes, please get it engineered. it's not that hard and it means that we will have a modified car scene in years to come. if not, the local govt
will clamp down on it all and mods will be a thing of the past... 
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newghia
A.k.a.: Noddy
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| posted on October 31st, 2010 at 10:12 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Googlebot
Hi Guys,
These narrowed Bugs - how do you stand with legality, in my case in NSW. I'm guessing it's obvious that you would require (strictly speaking) an
Engineer's Certificate? Or does the age of the car nullify this (wishful deluded thinking?)?
Could it even be certified?
Thanks in advance.
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Google....your answer....yes it can be done & it needs to be certified to be legal....
as with a lot of mods, there are process' & procedures to comply with, check with the RTA or go see adam (polak)
that is the simple answer to your question
Nath
Step up to get out !!!
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