| [ Total Views: 7296 | Total Replies: 110 | Thread Id: 91196 ] |
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 mactaylor
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| posted on July 2nd, 2011 at 06:03 AM |
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dont mind a bit of flange myself!
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vlad01
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| posted on July 2nd, 2011 at 04:34 PM |
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haha i love the comment on the v6 torque vs vw engine torque.
in my driving preferences the v6 is wins by miles.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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vassy66T1
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| posted on July 2nd, 2011 at 04:49 PM |
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Everyone has the thing that they enjoy about the volksies.
If your budget is tight then trying to build a big horsepower sub 2l type 1 engine is not the way to go.
A Subaru is cheap horsepower. Of course as Damo said (and Boof is witness to), there is so much else that is affected = more $
I love the VW including the aircooled engine. So i choose that way even though it means more money to make the less/same horsepower as a modern
car.
Please don't take offence, but Wrx's bore me senseless.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on July 2nd, 2011 at 05:50 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by boof2332
Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
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Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.
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ruckus
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| posted on July 3rd, 2011 at 02:42 PM |
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Forgive my ignorance (and long absence), but can anyone quickly outline the practicalities of the STi gearbox inside a bug?
Hopefully this is in keeping with the OP's original intent...
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ttriebler
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| posted on July 3rd, 2011 at 03:25 PM |
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5 gears, nice shifting, stronger (if necessary).
Really it's only needed for those who want an overdrive 5th and no drop in the gear spacing from 1st to 5th.
You can achieve the same overdrive gearing with a 4 speed vw but then you get massive holes between the gears where your revs drop off the torque
curve.
Or if you have a turbo motor with lots of torque (VW or subie) and keep blowing up vw boxes then fitting the subie box that's designed to go with the
motor gives you a better chance of keeping it from blowing up. That's not to say they are indestructible either. 
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com |
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vlad01
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| posted on July 3rd, 2011 at 05:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vassy66T1
Everyone has the thing that they enjoy about the volksies.
If your budget is tight then trying to build a big horsepower sub 2l type 1 engine is not the way to go.
A Subaru is cheap horsepower. Of course as Damo said (and Boof is witness to), there is so much else that is affected = more $
I love the VW including the aircooled engine. So i choose that way even though it means more money to make the less/same horsepower as a modern
car.
Please don't take offence, but Wrx's bore me senseless.
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yep me too. suby just doesn't excite me at all.
sure they have power but its all up top. I much prefer bottom end.
type 4 is most suited but I do very much like the ideal of a compact V6.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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ttriebler
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| posted on July 3rd, 2011 at 07:46 PM |
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Hence why fitting a Subie EZ30 flat 6 would be ideal for you Vlad. Not much longer than the flat 4 and it's a flat 6 - even better torque
characteristics than a V6.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com |
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ricola
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| posted on July 3rd, 2011 at 11:42 PM |
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All these comparisons seem to forget that a big power VW engine will need the brakes and drivetrain upgrades to take the power just as much as any
other engine conversion so don't try adding those costs into the comparison!
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ruckus
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| posted on July 4th, 2011 at 12:12 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ttriebler
5 gears, nice shifting, stronger (if necessary)...
That's not to say they are indestructible either.
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Thanks mate. After more than four years living in Japan and still longing to be thumping around in a Dub, I thought it would be crazy not to at least
check first about Subies as I would assume I'd have a good shot at getting a setup cheap over here... the actual car is the problem 
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hellbugged
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| posted on July 4th, 2011 at 08:23 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ricola
All these comparisons seem to forget that a big power VW engine will need the brakes and drivetrain upgrades to take the power just as much as any
other engine conversion so don't try adding those costs into the comparison!
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yes and no.
i think for subie conversion (especially for roadworthy engineering)......you need to go that "extra" step to accomodate the extra tourque and top
end speed, which makes it more expensive even tho they will both require modifying
oh Jak, i almost got a quote in on that one before it was gone 
........some valid points there!
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 matberry
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| posted on July 4th, 2011 at 08:52 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hellbugged
oh Jak, i almost got a quote in on that one before it was gone
........some valid points there!
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Jeez, missed that one....ya gotta be quick.....or was it BS anyway???
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vlad01
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| posted on July 4th, 2011 at 09:09 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ttriebler
Hence why fitting a Subie EZ30 flat 6 would be ideal for you Vlad. Not much longer than the flat 4 and it's a flat 6 - even better torque
characteristics than a V6.
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mmm? no there not, not according to wikipeadia.
289nm at @ 4400 rpm is a lot higher up the rpm range than I expected.
but meh 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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ttriebler
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| posted on July 4th, 2011 at 12:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ttriebler
Hence why fitting a Subie EZ30 flat 6 would be ideal for you Vlad. Not much longer than the flat 4 and it's a flat 6 - even better torque
characteristics than a V6.
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mmm? no there not, not according to wikipeadia.
289nm at @ 4400 rpm is a lot higher up the rpm range than I expected.
but meh
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Would with a supercharger on it.....mmmm...forced induction at idle....yummy
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com |
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vlad01
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| posted on July 4th, 2011 at 03:59 PM |
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or you could just do this
I have no idea what the actual torque numbers are here? but I know its more than 260nm at like 1200 rpm in this case.
that mitsu V6 at the OP intrigues me as well, hmmm?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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ttriebler
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| posted on July 4th, 2011 at 04:37 PM |
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Bahahahaha you call that a torque curve?
Below is a H6 3.0 with 10psi turbo boost. Awesome.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com |
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vlad01
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| posted on July 4th, 2011 at 06:02 PM |
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but thats boosted and there is nothing about what rpm its at. I am talking about an off the shelf NA engine.
If thats the case^ f**k it just buy a 993 tubo engine lol. 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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mactaylor
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| posted on July 4th, 2011 at 06:56 PM |
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sorry vlad that is flat as and im excited!
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pete wood
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| posted on July 4th, 2011 at 09:18 PM |
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WRX
Pos; Cheap, more powerful, more torque, lots of cheap hotup parts, modern engine, factory built.
Neg; HEAVY, not bolt in, need proper gearbox (at some stage), needs a radiator and intercooler.
1916
Pos; light, accepted as engine upgrade for many racing classes.
Neg; OLD engine, exy, limited KMs, needs lots of regular maintainence, rare, hand built.
Truth is, like people have said, apples VS oranges. Each one has advantages. Re the VW, don't underestimate the importance of
lightness. I'd like to own a JPM 1916. 
I also really enjoy my EJ25. Kicks over straight away, tunes itself. Give me a 1916 that will do that with OHCs for >$5k, I might consider
changing.
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JVLRacing
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| posted on July 4th, 2011 at 11:30 PM |
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popcorn please
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vlad01
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| posted on July 5th, 2011 at 07:38 AM |
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HEY! where is MY popcorn
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Brian
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| posted on July 5th, 2011 at 07:55 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
| Quote: | Originally
posted by boof2332
Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
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Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.
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You only like subi engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor
Unless you get Stan to build em for you......
or is that avenue no longer available to you ???
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Brian
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| posted on July 5th, 2011 at 07:58 AM |
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The 225kw at the wheels WRX powered Notch was not even as quick as the 1916 non turbo beetles at Nambucca last year !!!!!
or any other year .
So dream on all you subi owners you may win a dyno day but thats about all .
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hellbugged
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| posted on July 5th, 2011 at 08:08 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Brian
The 225kw at the wheels WRX powered Notch was not even as quick as the 1916 non turbo beetles at Nambucca last year !!!!!
or any other year .
So dream on all you subi owners you may win a dyno day but thats about all .
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can't argue with fact there
200Kw thanx and it's heavy too, yes partially due to the lump in the back and water resivoir up front hmmmmmmmm.......... bunch of cowboy drivers
horses for courses cause it's quicker than any 1916 N/A at Goulburn by a country mile......however apples and apples being Rudi's turbo injected
1916, the subie is a little behind in both power and times but but but but again we go back to weight, development, driver
experience/regularity/ability, gearbox, tyres, BRAKES!
i like the way vw's being hard to start has been mentioned a couple of times ........never had that problem......i don't think a VW engine is particularly hard to maintain either
this argument is sooooooooo old.......yet it still confuses me despite having ass in seat access to both sides of the coin..... YAWN!
i like all VW's
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matberry
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| posted on July 5th, 2011 at 08:48 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
WRX
Pos; Cheap, more powerful, more torque, lots of cheap hotup parts, modern engine, factory built.
Neg; HEAVY, not bolt in, need proper gearbox (at some stage), needs a radiator and intercooler.
1916
Pos; light, accepted as engine upgrade for many racing classes.
Neg; OLD engine, exy, limited KMs, needs lots of regular maintainence, rare, hand built.
Truth is, like people have said, apples VS oranges. Each one has advantages. Re the VW, don't underestimate the importance of
lightness. I'd like to own a JPM 1916.
I also really enjoy my EJ25. Kicks over straight away, tunes itself. Give me a 1916 that will do that with OHCs for >$5k, I might consider
changing.
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Brian
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
| Quote: | Originally
posted by boof2332
Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
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Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.
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You only like subi engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor
Unless you get Stan to build em for you......
or is that avenue no longer available to you ???
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hellbugged
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Brian
The 225kw at the wheels WRX powered Notch was not even as quick as the 1916 non turbo beetles at Nambucca last year !!!!!
or any other year .
So dream on all you subi owners you may win a dyno day but thats about all .
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can't argue with fact there
200Kw thanx and it's heavy too, yes partially due to the lump in the back and water resivoir up front hmmmmmmmm.......... bunch of cowboy drivers
horses for courses cause it's quicker than any 1916 N/A at Goulburn by a country mile......however apples and apples being Rudi's turbo injected
1916, the subie is a little behind in both power and times but but but but again we go back to weight, development, driver
experience/regularity/ability, gearbox, tyres, BRAKES!
i like the way vw's being hard to start has been mentioned a couple of times ........never had that problem......i don't think a VW engine is particularly hard to maintain either
this argument is sooooooooo old.......yet it still confuses me despite having ass in seat access to both sides of the coin..... YAWN!
i like all VW's
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At last some real arguments that are worth reading.
After the power BS, it comes down to CAR performance, not just kilograms and horsepower!!!
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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JVLRacing
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| posted on July 5th, 2011 at 09:04 AM |
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I still remember Damo gettin out of the notch,takin me for a spin around Raliegh raceway....HE WAS SHAKING and i knew he was tryin to impress me The notch has the balls to knock of alot of cars take the weight out forget the rest
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pete wood
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| posted on July 5th, 2011 at 10:15 AM |
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| Quote: | You only like subi
engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor...
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I plead guilty your honour. And I think it's perfectly acceptable. It's like saying you buy a commodore coz you are unable to assemble your own
family car. That's most of the population.
I'm sure I could learn to build a really great motor, but I don't have the time or the $$$ to pour into learning/tools so a ready built engine by an
expert is the way to go. It's also much cheaper than making 20 years of mistakes. I bet it's taken Matt that long to get as good as he is with
engines.
BTW, I've said this before and it's still true. I would LOVE to own a really crazy aircooled powered rally car. Can't think of anything more
attractive, but the cost is prohibitive.
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hellbugged
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| posted on July 5th, 2011 at 10:52 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
I'm sure I could learn to build a really great motor, but I don't have the time or the $$$ to pour into learning/tools so a ready built engine by an
expert is the way to go. It's also much cheaper than making 20 years of mistakes. I bet it's taken Matt that long to get as good as he is with
engines.
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woah
yes you could learn, in fact i would say you would already have the knowledge to select a fine array of parts and carefully assemble them........the
fact you are on this world wide web means the technics/secrets to assembly are at your finger tips right now!.....also an infinate amount of parts at
NOW reasonable prices.
obviously you have never met Matt from that comment........but also having met you, maybe it's come accross wrong Pete.
20 years ago info was harder to come by, but there were still knowledgeable people building awsome reliable aircooled engines......perhaps the
technics and theories have not changed much at all, certainly the need to weld standard heads, mix and match and modify components from different
origins has somewhat been replaced by the abvailabilty/accessability of "ready" to go gear.......having inspected a set of CNC ported heads the
other day, hence the "READY" 
subaru engines have changed over 20 years too....big factory, lab coated, full time career technicans behind the scenes rather than our favourite VW
"names".....at what point will we start saying the first thing to do is tear a new found EJ down before install.......the newer versions are
becoming a right chore to fit with the amount of extras they now have compared to the pre 2002 ones?.......so really 10 years at what 15K km per
year?............we always seem to over look the fact we are comparing 2nd hand WRX motors to Zero mile VW engines within this debate too.......would
comparing a crate EJ even the field in the budget department because the EJ will also need rebuilding at some point.
a brand new aircooled will need attention 100 000 km
after install........so will the 2nd hand EJ that already had 100 000km before you put it in?..........
I've assembled a VW engine ONCE......goes ok (TOUCH WOOD)....
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matberry
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| posted on July 5th, 2011 at 11:54 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by JVLRacing
I still remember Damo gettin out of the notch,takin me for a spin around Raliegh raceway....HE WAS SHAKING and i knew he was tryin to impress me The notch has the balls to knock of alot of cars take the weight out forget the rest
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Awsome feeling that is. Reminds me of when a mate took my old 2332 for a spin, it ran 13.0. His old car was one of the best at the time Subi powered
(and cranked boost blah blah) Baja's......well he came back with the adrenalin shakes (like I've done in the same car/track too) and the biggest
smile saying how his old engines (VW 2332 IDA....) never came close.
This is a dude that is a trained air cooled mechanic (motorcycles) and built big VW engines's for himself and his mates. He is a guy that wants the
best but often doesn't put in the required effort to finess the best from his engine. These day's I build his cars
What I'm saying is that all things are never equal....... but VW's are certainly capable of surprising even the most power savy.
Yes I've taken years to gain skills that help me in making informed decisions on choosing the right parts for a quality build, but as Daimo and
others has said, with the web knowledge base, everyone has so much available to do it themselves BUT, you'll never buy an exchange Volksie that makes
150hp for $1100.......
On a pro VW note, some of the best hipo engines out there make a surprisingly uneventful result on a dyno, but one lap on a good circuit and you may
think otherwise. That same engine may read like a very stock based engine.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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matberry
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| posted on July 5th, 2011 at 11:58 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
I bet it's taken Matt that long to get as good as he is with engines.
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Actually, ALL my engines have been performers, whether 36hp or 2443
20 years of mistakes and I can still make them without trying
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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