| [ Total Views: 3372 | Total Replies: 69 | Thread Id: 93724 ] |
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 psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 07:20 AM |
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Come now guys. I àm just after some info for my disc conversion.
As to who did what well unless I make it myself or buy a kit from CSP then I wouldnt trust anything else.
As for Volks Conversion, the fact the wheel studs are 5xM12 or 4xM14 should have given the twat an idea of what bolts to use to hold the plate onto
the hub!!!! DUR!!!!!!!!
Not had any contact with CVD but if thats the stafford lot they seem nice enough when i met em a few years back but never bout nowt from them cos I
make it all meself 
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
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vwo60
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 08:13 AM |
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| Quote: | Cool. Did you use
6061 T6 alloy or some other grade of alloy? Cheers
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I had a look at the material that was requested by the engineer, it is as above, 6061 T6, i purchased two pieces from Capral aluminium, had it cut to
length as i had no way of parting it of as it was 200MM in diameter, it is interesting that he specified that the M14MM holes for the wheel bolts be
tapped directly into the aluminium, every time that i remove the wheels i always torque these bolts and have never had a issue with them.
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Brad
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 09:08 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Come now guys. I àm just after some info for my disc conversion.
As to who did what well unless I make it myself or buy a kit from CSP then I wouldnt trust anything else.
Not had any contact with CVD but if thats the stafford lot they seem nice enough when i met em a few years back but never bout nowt from them cos I
make it all meself
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Correct and just so no one gets the wrong idea I left Custom Vee Dub many years ago. The new owner Pete does his own thing as I would hate anyone to
hold anything I did or was supposed to have done according to some guy who I obviously don't get on with for one reason or another.
As for a response to Brent ... well I see no point going on as it is only going to send the thread further off path. Those involved at the time know
what really happened and who did what so at least the truth is out there, maybe Brent can post some info on the brake kits with "adapter" he has
actually had designed and approved ?
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1303Steve
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 10:08 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by mactaylor
as for wide 5 disc brake hubs have a look at hunter rivmaster,s offroad kit it might be able to be engineerd have a chat with him good dude!
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Hi
Not wishing to sound like VW54 aka Birchall, Vintage have an engineered wide 5 kit already and it apparently works very well.
Steve
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 Bizarre
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 10:21 AM |
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Do you have there phone number??
Futue te ipsum!!!
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 10:27 AM |
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02 9789 1777 I think
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mactaylor
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 12:26 PM |
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hunter rivmasta has alloy hubs that are very light and strong would be great for road racing with a few tweeks bobs number is 02 96272151. i have no
interest to declare in his business.
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
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psimitar
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| posted on November 17th, 2011 at 06:26 AM |
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Cool. Did you use 6061 T6 alloy or some other grade of alloy? Cheers
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I had a look at the material that was requested by the engineer, it is as above, 6061 T6, i purchased two pieces from Capral aluminium, had it cut to
length as i had no way of parting it of as it was 200MM in diameter, it is interesting that he specified that the M14MM holes for the wheel bolts be
tapped directly into the aluminium, every time that i remove the wheels i always torque these bolts and have never had a issue with them.
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So what PCD wheels are you using? Bigger than 4x130 or 5x112. And what diameter rotor did you use? Just interested as you must have some overhang for
the wheel mounting point that overhangs the caliper?
Cheers,
Mike
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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psimitar
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| posted on November 17th, 2011 at 06:29 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
| Quote: | Originally
posted by mactaylor
as for wide 5 disc brake hubs have a look at hunter rivmaster,s offroad kit it might be able to be engineerd have a chat with him good dude!
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Hi
Not wishing to sound like VW54 aka Birchall, Vintage have an engineered wide 5 kit already and it apparently works very well.
Steve
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Thanks. Already knew that but they are solid discs and I want vented.
I know people say the Bug is light but with the EJ22 in the back and some fun driving I'd prefer vented for better cooling right from the start
instead of finding out that the solids don't like 'fun' driving and then that means re-engineering the whole setup so get what I'd like from the
start
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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vwo60
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| posted on November 17th, 2011 at 07:26 AM |
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Hi,
You are correct about the ventilated rotors as i see no point in doing a conversion without taking advantage of that style of rotor, I used the
standard 4 x 130 as i already had a set of composite wheels, i am looking at building another set up for the double wish bone front end that i will be
running in my new build, the rotors are 295MM in diametre and 20MM thick, go to the DBA web site and down load the catalog and troll through the
thousands on offer, all the diamentions are listed in the catalog.
http://www.dba.com.au/
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1303Steve
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| posted on November 17th, 2011 at 08:10 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
| Quote: | Originally
posted by mactaylor
as for wide 5 disc brake hubs have a look at hunter rivmaster,s offroad kit it might be able to be engineerd have a chat with him good dude!
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Hi
Not wishing to sound like VW54 aka Birchall, Vintage have an engineered wide 5 kit already and it apparently works very well.
Steve
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Thanks. Already knew that but they are solid discs and I want vented.
I know people say the Bug is light but with the EJ22 in the back and some fun driving I'd prefer vented for better cooling right from the start
instead of finding out that the solids don't like 'fun' driving and then that means re-engineering the whole setup so get what I'd like from the
start
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Hi
Maybe you could buy a pair of just the wide 5 rotors, then remove braking surface and use these as a hub, 911s do this sort of thing, the 911 rotor
bolts to the rear of the 911 hub.
I did this on my old 1302 but I used cut down Beetle rotors.
Steve
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Smiley
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| posted on November 17th, 2011 at 12:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Brad
There is no issue at all running an adapter as part of the disc brake kit to return the selected disc conversion to the factory PCD. I suggest you
read the rules and the ADR's. I think you are confussing the inability to run a wheel adapter as opposed to running an engineer designed and approved
disc kit which includes an adapter as part of it.
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Hey Brad. I have read the braking section of this document
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/b3ea8c53-b6a1-489e-933d-dac4054f21ba/codeof...
Pages 75 to 92
It doesn't make any mention of adapter plate and whether they can be approved as a part of the brake conversion.
I was wondering if you could please link, PM or email (smiley3000@gmail.com) the documents that you have used to get your adapter plates approved as I
am interested in going down this path and looking into disc brake conversions at the moment.
You help would be most appreciated, and I'm sure other people on here would like the information too.
Thanks
Smiley
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psimitar
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| posted on November 17th, 2011 at 09:22 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Hi,
You are correct about the ventilated rotors as i see no point in doing a conversion without taking advantage of that style of rotor, I used the
standard 4 x 130 as i already had a set of composite wheels, i am looking at building another set up for the double wish bone front end that i will be
running in my new build, the rotors are 295MM in diametre and 20MM thick, go to the DBA web site and down load the catalog and troll through the
thousands on offer, all the diamentions are listed in the catalog.
http://www.dba.com.au/
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Cool. I have looked thro the DBA catalogue already but have found some wilwood hatless rotors to go on the back of the hub. The main thing is figuring
out the mounting of teh original wheels as QLD trams are adamant that the PCD MUST NOT change from original. So either a hub with integral overhang
for clearing the caliper and mounting the wheel or a mounting plate to bolt to the hub that the wheel bolts too.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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psimitar
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| posted on November 17th, 2011 at 09:42 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
Maybe you could buy a pair of just the wide 5 rotors, then remove braking surface and use these as a hub, 911s do this sort of thing, the 911 rotor
bolts to the rear of the 911 hub.
I did this on my old 1302 but I used cut down Beetle rotors.
Steve
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Hiya Steve,
Um, wide 5 never came with rotors just drums. Or did you mean the alloy hubs?
I like what you did for the 1302 but what with the drums webbing you cant machine that off to give a flat surface for the rotor to bolt too. If I
could thatd be so much easier.
The issue with the wide 5 PCD is needing the wheel mounting point to overhang the disc and caliper area and hence you need clearance for the caliper
body. between the rotor and wheel mounting point.
Check out CSP vented kit and youll see what I mean.
Cheers,
mike
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Smiley
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| posted on November 17th, 2011 at 09:48 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
Maybe you could buy a pair of just the wide 5 rotors, then remove braking surface and use these as a hub, 911s do this sort of thing, the 911 rotor
bolts to the rear of the 911 hub.
I did this on my old 1302 but I used cut down Beetle rotors.
Steve
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Hiya Steve,
Um, wide 5 never came with rotors just drums. Or did you mean the alloy hubs?
I like what you did for the 1302 but what with the drums webbing you cant machine that off to give a flat surface for the rotor to bolt too. If I
could thatd be so much easier.
The issue with the wide 5 PCD is needing the wheel mounting point to overhang the disc and caliper area and hence you need clearance for the caliper
body. between the rotor and wheel mounting point.
Check out CSP vented kit and youll see what I mean.
Cheers,
mike
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I think he means buy just a pair of rotors from the likes of Vintage and modify them to take the vent disc.
Are you going to be running adapter plates? Because I'm looking to do a very similar thing to my Baja at the moment. I'm planning on using all
factory Commodore parts. I just need to have the caliper brackets made. And I'm still tossing up whether to use Commodore stud pattern or fit adapter
plates to the rotors and run wide 5.
Going to see an engineer or two tomorrow so we'll go from there I suppose.
Smiley
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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psimitar
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| posted on November 18th, 2011 at 04:47 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Smiley
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
Maybe you could buy a pair of just the wide 5 rotors, then remove braking surface and use these as a hub, 911s do this sort of thing, the 911 rotor
bolts to the rear of the 911 hub.
I did this on my old 1302 but I used cut down Beetle rotors.
Steve
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Hiya Steve,
Um, wide 5 never came with rotors just drums. Or did you mean the alloy hubs?
I like what you did for the 1302 but what with the drums webbing you cant machine that off to give a flat surface for the rotor to bolt too. If I
could thatd be so much easier.
The issue with the wide 5 PCD is needing the wheel mounting point to overhang the disc and caliper area and hence you need clearance for the caliper
body. between the rotor and wheel mounting point.
Check out CSP vented kit and youll see what I mean.
Cheers,
mike
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I think he means buy just a pair of rotors from the likes of Vintage and modify them to take the vent disc.
Are you going to be running adapter plates? Because I'm looking to do a very similar thing to my Baja at the moment. I'm planning on using all
factory Commodore parts. I just need to have the caliper brackets made. And I'm still tossing up whether to use Commodore stud pattern or fit adapter
plates to the rotors and run wide 5.
Going to see an engineer or two tomorrow so we'll go from there I suppose.
Smiley
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Well the Vintage should, like most others, be using an alloy hub with a sintered steel rotor bolted to the back BUT depending on the diameter of the
rear of the hub will determine what rotor could be used and so far all the Oz suppliers arent being very forth coming with hub dimensions so I can
figure out if they would be of any use.
As for which stud pattern. Well QLD trans are adamant that a vehicle MUST retain its original PCD and so legally unless an engineer can sign off on
such things for a different PCD to be used then technically if you have an accident you are uninsured due to having an illegal modification. Check
that out in depth with your engineer.
I wanna use a mounting plate for the wide 5 wheels but its getting an engineer to be happy with the overhang this mounting plate introduces to the
structure of the design plus the mods MUST NOT increase the track by more than 25mm. Unless you narrow the beam a little to help
Cheers,
Mike
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Smiley
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| posted on November 20th, 2011 at 12:44 PM |
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I spoke with the engineer on Friday.
He was adamant that adapter plates are illegal and can not be approved.
He also said that there is no worries with changing the stud pattern. So I'm probably just going to change to the Commodore stud pattern.
I'm also going to speak with another engineer next week and get a second opinion. Mostly just double check.
Not sure if this really helps you. I don't know who told you that the stud pattern must remain factory, but no one else seems to have any dramas with
it. And the engineer said it was perfectly fine.
Smiley
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vwo60
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| posted on November 20th, 2011 at 01:06 PM |
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The change of stud pattern does not matter as the conversion will have to be engineered and approved, there are a few conversions that run a wide five
aluminium hub but do not have a vented rotor, I think the apaptor plate stops being a adaptor plate when it is attached to the hub perminatly, the
overhang over the wheel mounting face is totally different to my set up as it is taken into account on the wheels.
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psimitar
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| posted on November 24th, 2011 at 08:35 AM |
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QLD trans were adamant about change of PCD. No reason why an engineered mounting plate shouldn't be legal. If you look at the drum casting which is a
cheap and weak form of parts manufacture then an alloy hub with suitably thick steel plate to bolt the wheel too with minimal overhang is actually
stronger than the cast drum. Suppose it depends if the engineer in question actually has a degree in materials engineering.
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vwo60
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| posted on November 24th, 2011 at 05:22 PM |
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Richard Larsen at load safe engineering did mine, he is a automotive engineer and can give you a definitive answer
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psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
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| posted on November 27th, 2011 at 02:59 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Richard Larsen at load safe engineering did mine, he is a automotive engineer and can give you a definitive answer
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Ah ha, now thats what I needed to know.
My apologies if I've sounded a bit agro but find it frustrating at times with the ADR and how Oz handle certain things especially when the German TUV
standards are the toughest in the world yet a TUV approved kit from a German company does not satisfy the ADR. That to me sounds like the USA and only
wanting to do things their way.
Fingers crossed this guy can see that my design is so strong that the spindle would snap b4 the mounting plate deformed.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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vwo60
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| posted on November 27th, 2011 at 11:26 AM |
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His requirement was a 12MM mounting plate for the caliper, all grade 10.9 bolts and the correct front rear bias, i am currently building a new car and
it will use ball joint spindles, i see most people mount the caliper to the standard spindle using the 10mm bolts that mount the standard caliper,
with a adaptor then sleeve the porsche hub to use beetle bearings, i will have to machine the caliper mount on the spindle to allow for 12 MM bolts
and sleeve the spindle to use the porsche bearings.
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 MISS VDUB
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| posted on November 27th, 2011 at 12:05 PM |
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I can reassure you that CVD is now under new management and in the awesome hands of Pete and Co. Can't recommended Pete's work enough to anyone.
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psimitar
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| posted on November 29th, 2011 at 02:50 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
His requirement was a 12MM mounting plate for the caliper, all grade 10.9 bolts and the correct front rear bias, i am currently building a new car and
it will use ball joint spindles, i see most people mount the caliper to the standard spindle using the 10mm bolts that mount the standard caliper,
with a adaptor then sleeve the porsche hub to use beetle bearings, i will have to machine the caliper mount on the spindle to allow for 12 MM bolts
and sleeve the spindle to use the porsche bearings.
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Cool. Will see if he can clarify my design by email as still in Europe for a few months and would like to know I can buy parts b4 my return to Oz. Can
buy and ship some bits cheaper whilst I'm here
Bracket size at 12mm is def way to go. Sleeving the spindle will be fun what with the internal taper.
12mm mounting plate for the wide 5 wheels on mine should be fine too but we'll see.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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vwo60
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| posted on November 29th, 2011 at 07:47 AM |
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Just put the spindle up between centres and clock the angle, i will give that section of the sleeve .2MM clearance
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nils
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| posted on November 29th, 2011 at 11:33 AM |
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Wow, . . . . . . . was just doing research on brakes and came across this thread, i remember now why i don't hang out on aussie vw forums,
Quit calling rust patina
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psimitar
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| posted on November 30th, 2011 at 10:14 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Just put the spindle up between centres and clock the angle, i will give that section of the sleeve .2MM clearance
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Tis interesting that sleeving the spindle is allowed as any other mod isn't and thought that meant sleeving too but hey if he said it's OK.
Funny as that wouldn't pass in UK or Germany. You could however get a company to machine the old spindle out and then heat shrink a correctly
manufactured and case hardened spindle in.
Also odd that he wants M12 bolts in the original caliper hole locations as the NCP says thats not allowed unless I mis-understood it. I presume he
looked at the meat around the orig mounting holes to say that enough strength remains?
It all seems a bit odd to me after reading the NCP and hearing that an engineer can sign off on things that read as not complying along with
overriding QLD transport on things like PCD rulings. Bit of a dodgy system when depending on the engineer one can say yes and another no but as he
accredited then with the blue plate it's legal.
Ah well, I do hope he likes what I have in mind and good luck with the new brake design. Hope you make a thread for it as I'd be interested in seeing
you put your new kit togther.
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vlad01
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| posted on November 30th, 2011 at 10:53 AM |
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why not Glenn's (aka VWCOOL) ADR approved disk brake kits? they bolt right on with no mods and the hand brake works as standard.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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vlad01
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| posted on November 30th, 2011 at 10:58 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by nils
Wow, . . . . . . . was just doing research on brakes and came across this thread, i remember now why i don't hang out on aussie vw forums,
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lol yeah, so true.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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psimitar
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| posted on November 30th, 2011 at 11:12 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
why not Glenn's (aka VWCOOL) ADR approved disk brake kits? they bolt right on with no mods and the hand brake works as standard.
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They are nice but I don't want anything to do with Commodores or GM in any way. I hate Commodores and Falcons. Awfully crap cars. Plus his kit is 4
bolt and I like the look of the wide 5 solids. Much better looking than the slotted 4 lug wheels and are original to my 59 bug. Later wheels look
awful. 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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