| [ Total Views: 7623 | Total Replies: 95 | Thread Id: 98935 ] |
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 psimitar
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| posted on September 28th, 2012 at 02:43 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Most of these people that hang a shingle outside there shop have never seen inside a Tafe, $100 a hour to get a great job done like this, to do that
job properly the average vw person cannot afford the time required to build a engine properly, i only farm out things like paint and panel and that's
another story, you only have to look at the welding that comes out of some places, I just looked a super bug a you person bought with a road worthy,
they had welded up the frame head and passed it, absolute rubbish. looked like they forgot to turn the gas on.
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I've not seen inside a TAFE but then I did turning and fitting at school. Even many TAFE qualified tradies are shithouse. I've worked with many and
can say I've come across less than 5% of them that I'd trust to do a proper job. QLD tradies are some of the worst I've seen in Oz and being an
engineer I've worked with NSW and Vic tradie to compare against.
Sad state of affairs really 
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
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vlad01
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| posted on September 28th, 2012 at 07:45 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Vlad, you should watch Holmes Inspection on Foxtel 119. Now that's an eye opener 
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lol I haven't really sat down and watched tv in like 3 years, besides watching sbs docos at the gym.
It just makes me angry when I flip though the channels to find nothing but pure diarrhea quality programing.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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psimitar
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| posted on September 28th, 2012 at 11:47 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Vlad, you should watch Holmes Inspection on Foxtel 119. Now that's an eye opener
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lol I haven't really sat down and watched tv in like 3 years, besides watching sbs docos at the gym.
It just makes me angry when I flip though the channels to find nothing but pure diarrhea quality programing.
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That's why I only watch UK car shows (Top Gear, Fifth Gear, Wheeler Dealer etc) or old Sci-fi shows and I only watch them after recording so I can
fuck the ads off.
Way too much diarrhea on TV these days. Well in Oz anyway :P
Sorry for a bit off subject Matt. Please continue with the strip down report.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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tweety
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 02:56 PM |
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That engine, even from my very limited mechanical knowledge is disgusting.
I have always believed that if you dont know how, then stay well enough away.
I'm sure there is a good percentage of rural or regional members on here that have little choice in doing it themselves when it comes to repairs. And
sometimes you dont have much choice. I'm near Strathbogie Vic and at times I need to carry out some repairs myself. eg broken electrical
connections. Recently I took Tweety to an auto electrician in Benalla 40 mins away for what turned out to be faulty regulator. When collecting the
car he told me "whoever connected all those wires did a very amatuerish job.". It was me, when I installed the ea81 after the 1916 I connected the
5-6 wires with standard electrical connectors. Obviously it worked but looked 'unprofessional'.
So I pointed out that when a novice like me pulls out a VW engine, attaches an adapter plate to the ea81, installs it and gets it running all with
limited mechanical experience "I did pretty good".
I certainly wasnt in the mood nor wanting to pay to trailer the trike around to mechanical workshops and auto electricians to do the conversion with
high standard.
So there are cases whereby work done on parts of vehicles is done by owners that might not meet the quality of work from a qualified tradie. But
these people of which I am one, can either leave bigger jobs ie engine rebuilds to the experts or utilise great forums like this one to guide them
through it, the latter I did with the ea81 install.
So there is nil excuses for workmanship of the standards we see in this thread. NIL!
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vwo60
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 04:04 PM |
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PSIMITAR, Sorry to take you to task but i could not disagree with you more, it has nothing to do with TAFE, it is the individual and the work place
were you do your time, i did my trade as a fitter machinist in Queensland and went to a TAFE in Brisbane, it did not influence me very much other that
some technicial issues, i had a aprentice master that looked after the aprentice's training on the job, since then i have traveled around Australia
doing a large varity of work, i am currently a senior mechanicial technician working off shore over sea's, the equipment that i work on makes working
on a vw engine look like childs play, high speed rotating equipment like gas turbine generators and rotory screw gas compressors, alignments on a
machine that weigh 40 tonnes that have a tolerence finer that a vw main bearing clearence, you cannot generalise, i have also worked with some very
average engineers over the years, both electricial and mechanicial, it is very hard to get good trade's people any were in the world, there is a
great shortage of good quality trades people because have a trade has been devalued and replaced with the idea it is better to have a degree, not so
the case here, i earn three time more that a engineer and work half the year.
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Sick68VW
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 06:19 PM |
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Was this really done by a vw shop there no way people would let work out like this..
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psimitar
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| posted on September 30th, 2012 at 10:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
PSIMITAR, Sorry to take you to task but i could not disagree with you more, it has nothing to do with TAFE, it is the individual and the work place
were you do your time, i did my trade as a fitter machinist in Queensland and went to a TAFE in Brisbane, it did not influence me very much other that
some technicial issues, i had a aprentice master that looked after the aprentice's training on the job, since then i have traveled around Australia
doing a large varity of work, i am currently a senior mechanicial technician working off shore over sea's, the equipment that i work on makes working
on a vw engine look like childs play, high speed rotating equipment like gas turbine generators and rotory screw gas compressors, alignments on a
machine that weigh 40 tonnes that have a tolerence finer that a vw main bearing clearence, you cannot generalise, i have also worked with some very
average engineers over the years, both electricial and mechanicial, it is very hard to get good trade's people any were in the world, there is a
great shortage of good quality trades people because have a trade has been devalued and replaced with the idea it is better to have a degree, not so
the case here, i earn three time more that a engineer and work half the year.
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I'm just saying in my experience I find most tradie's do substandard work but I also know a good few engineers that aren't very good either.
Never take it too heart if you are of the minority that does a good job. Be proud of that fact.
As for getting paid more than an engineer, good on ya but useless tradies that earn more than me does piss me off but that's down to engineers being
under represented in Oz compared to tradie unions IMO.
Anyway, let's not get too off subject on Matt's thread even if he is highlighting a bad tradie's workmanship 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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vlad01
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 10:33 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
PSIMITAR, Sorry to take you to task but i could not disagree with you more, it has nothing to do with TAFE, it is the individual and the work place
were you do your time, i did my trade as a fitter machinist in Queensland and went to a TAFE in Brisbane, it did not influence me very much other that
some technicial issues, i had a aprentice master that looked after the aprentice's training on the job, since then i have traveled around Australia
doing a large varity of work, i am currently a senior mechanicial technician working off shore over sea's, the equipment that i work on makes working
on a vw engine look like childs play, high speed rotating equipment like gas turbine generators and rotory screw gas compressors, alignments on a
machine that weigh 40 tonnes that have a tolerence finer that a vw main bearing clearence, you cannot generalise, i have also worked with some very
average engineers over the years, both electricial and mechanicial, it is very hard to get good trade's people any were in the world, there is a
great shortage of good quality trades people because have a trade has been devalued and replaced with the idea it is better to have a degree, not so
the case here, i earn three time more that a engineer and work half the year.
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I'm just saying in my experience I find most tradie's do substandard work but I also know a good few engineers that aren't very good either.
Never take it too heart if you are of the minority that does a good job. Be proud of that fact.
As for getting paid more than an engineer, good on ya but useless tradies that earn more than me does piss me off but that's down to engineers being
under represented in Oz compared to tradie unions IMO.
Anyway, let's not get too off subject on Matt's thread even if he is highlighting a bad tradie's workmanship
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I totally agree with this.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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vwo60
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 12:35 PM |
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Under supply of the trades and a over supply of engineers, no matter what you think of the union's if it was not for them you still would be down the
mine at five years of age.
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psimitar
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 01:03 PM |
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Cheers Vlad 
And I meant that engineers are poorly represented by unions compared to tradie's. Means engineers get screwed over by companies far easier than a
tradie can as the engineer has little backing. Unions are good organisations to a point.
Matt, continue.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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vwsteve
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| posted on October 1st, 2012 at 01:20 PM |
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.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by nils
My brother got caught by one of these "pro" engine builders aswell. $6k for less than 5000km of engine life. The flywheel and gland nut was glued in
because of a poor fit or quality. the flywheel all but cam off destroying the rear main seal, mating surfaces and rear bearing. after pulling the
engine down we found alot of the same evidence you are posting above. not a simple mistake, but just hands down lack of concern for the finished
product
might be the same guy?
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nills im pretty sure it was the same guy who built your brothers engine, ive actually seen this engine too,before it was stripped
1 1963 356b porsche coupe
2 1960 karmann ghia cab
1 1965 karmann ghia cab
1 1966 karmann cab
1 1961 split ute
1 1967 split p/van
1 1952 standard bug
1 1963 ragtop
1 1960 ragtop
2 1954 ovals
1 1956 oval baja project
1 1957 oval flying flea
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 matberry
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| posted on March 17th, 2013 at 02:06 PM |
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^^ Yep, you guessed it Steve. The shop is actually a German trained (so I was told) new(ish) Australian so rules out the TAFE complaints, I believe it
to be a combination of work ethics, not knowing any better and to some extent prior training (or lack of it)that creates this sort of work. The shop
guilty of the build pictured has since contacted me for input on a different project and he introduced himself as a VW and Porsche engineer capable
of/specialising in, any air cooled engine machining and assembly work.....OH MY GOLLY GOSH....your kidding right?????????????????
My Volkswagen career has been born from the continual lack of quality available in the mainstream workshop environment, but I digress.
After re reading this thread, there a a million side comments I'd like to make, but it's really about showing not only the bad professional repairs
that are out there, but more-so to highlight what you need to look for, there are a million parts that need to work together in harmony to make our
little cars operate properly, and of course to share the experience.....
Found this the other day, the same engine had two out of five main bearing dowel pins 2mm too long. This means it is too long for the available holes
in the case and the bearing, it pushed the bearing out of round and made contact with the crank thus adding to the resistance on the crank turning.
You can see where the bearing has contacted the crankshaft. This would not have turned as it was built !!!
Here's the lovely cooler and fan installation. What you don't see is some of the details, the fan is held in place with 3 (sort of) screws, one of
which was a self driller that was engaged into the sheet metal by the drilling part only, another was a bolt and a wing nut inside the car, not so
bad.....mmmm, but they were a mis match of threads so 1/8 of a turn or less actually, and it was off, the last of the three mounts was a heavy gauge
fencing wire hooked onto the hactory heaterduct mounting tab.
And of course to round out the no no's in this post, push lock hose fittings with hose clamps, the problem here is the sharp fitting cuts the
hose.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Huffypilot
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| posted on March 18th, 2013 at 08:33 AM |
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His guy should be named. I mean whats the purpose of this thread . I can clearly see the dodgy workmanship but if I take my hard earned to a
"reputable builder" as a newbie to VW's how do I know what Im going to get.
These crooks need to be weeded out. Lack of experience or interest in doing a good job is no excuse for charging top dollars, this is fraud.
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 barls
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| posted on March 18th, 2013 at 09:06 AM |
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due to the forums policy there will be no naming and shaming, any posts doing so will be removed.
if you really want to know pm him direct.
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Notchbacktastic
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| posted on March 18th, 2013 at 05:46 PM |
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Oh Lawdy!
I put my Briggs and Stratton together sweeter than that!
P.S - Hey Matt, doesn't it say something when, despite all the odds stacked against it, that poor motor still ran for 5000kms!!
Ain't been there, ain't done that.......yet :P
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matberry
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| posted on March 18th, 2013 at 10:33 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Notchbacktastic
doesn't it say something when, despite all the odds stacked against it, that poor motor still ran for 5000kms!!
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Absolutely, and it was essentially the carbs that made it catch fire which is what stopped it. (see 1st pic)
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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psimitar
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| posted on March 18th, 2013 at 10:52 PM |
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It's a shame current legalities stop people from shaming poor companies and workmanship. I mean I know it's a fine line to tread on even the
complainant being honest about things but there are SOOOOO many dodgy people out there these days asking top dollar for poor workmanship.
Gone are the days when a bad penny was few and far between. Now it's flipped the other way and trying to find a good penny is a needle in a haystack.
Sad state of affairs
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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HappyDaze
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| posted on March 19th, 2013 at 05:44 AM |
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You are unfortunately spot-on, psimitar. I now tend to expect the worst when something needs to be done 'outside'.
When I made the wheels for No.8 Beetle, the rims had to be spun, and after convincing myself that they would get them wrong, I was pleasantly
surprised get exactly what was ordered.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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IWL_86
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| posted on March 19th, 2013 at 10:24 PM |
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This is a really depressing thread. But on the positive side at least this poor motor has found your workshop Matty! Your patience and commitment is
astounding.
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psimitar
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| posted on March 20th, 2013 at 01:26 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by HappyDaze
You are unfortunately spot-on, psimitar. I now tend to expect the worst when something needs to be done 'outside'.
When I made the wheels for No.8 Beetle, the rims had to be spun, and after convincing myself that they would get them wrong, I was pleasantly
surprised get exactly what was ordered.
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I try to farm anything outside as little as possible. If i can find a way I will.
I wanted a 120degree 1.5m bend in 2 sheets of 0.9 steel and places wanted $15-20 per bend not bad for 10 mins work 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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nils
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| posted on March 20th, 2013 at 04:49 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
I wanted a 120degree 1.5m bend in 2 sheets of 0.9 steel and places wanted $15-20 per bend not bad for 10 mins work
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dunno, what your thought proccess here is mate. depending on the specs or your bends such as bend radius and tolerance of the finished product this
price is very reasonable. the fellow would take more than 10mins to set up the bender, depending on the size of your sheet and weather is needs to be
cut first 120' can be a pain.
The guy is in essence probaly changing $80-90 an hour, which is pretty standard chop now days. Minus from that plant and workshop fees and the fact
it has taken him away from a larger job the pays better and is a more steady income, i don't think he is wronging you.
what do you charge an hour?
Quit calling rust patina
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HappyDaze
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| posted on March 20th, 2013 at 06:28 AM |
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Tend to agree with nils. By the time you set up the press-brake with the correct tooling, explain to the operator what is needed, do all the
paperwork, etc., that's probably about right.
UNLESS THEY GET IT WRONG!!!!!......Then it is a rip-off.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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vlad01
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| posted on March 22nd, 2013 at 10:41 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
It's a shame current legalities stop people from shaming poor companies and workmanship. I mean I know it's a fine line to tread on even the
complainant being honest about things but there are SOOOOO many dodgy people out there these days asking top dollar for poor workmanship.
Gone are the days when a bad penny was few and far between. Now it's flipped the other way and trying to find a good penny is a needle in a haystack.
Sad state of affairs
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thats how it is these days. Thats why I prod and prod when asking questions or for something to be done, Its my way to sus out someone's capability
to do the job right. if they can't answer me straight I walk away and look else where.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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vwo60
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| posted on March 22nd, 2013 at 12:33 PM |
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That is exactly correct about the cost of labour, just have to spend the time to do a small job like that and still charge the hourly rate to make it
worth while to do it. the work that i farm out are to people that i know will meet the standard that i require, i have known all of them for years.
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psimitar
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| posted on March 22nd, 2013 at 06:51 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
That is exactly correct about the cost of labour, just have to spend the time to do a small job like that and still charge the hourly rate to make it
worth while to do it. the work that i farm out are to people that i know will meet the standard that i require, i have known all of them for years.
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Yea, labour is the biggest expense in Projects these days. Tis why projects cost so much in Oz.
Also, took me 5 years in my old town to find a mechanic I trusted and then due to life changes for him I can't trust him anymore.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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cb john
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| posted on March 22nd, 2013 at 08:43 PM |
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The " problem" with the pricing is in no understanding of the process of todays sheetmetal technology...the days of guillotines and scribers is long
gone...everything is done on CNC machines, which need to be programmed, set - up etc...all time spent transfers to hourly rate, which could range
from $ 80.0 to $200.0...depending on the shop charge out rate, reputation and requested accuracy and time of delivery...Happy Daze knows exactly ...
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matberry
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| posted on March 22nd, 2013 at 09:31 PM |
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Well today I came to the end of another classic example. a late model, air-cooled, VW powered machine equipped with a strong Empi turn-key engine with
20 000km on the clock from new. Stamped in the service book was all the servicing and repairs in it's short history, including it's predelivery and
dyno tuning receipts.
This was my first real win with HPMX carbs so some people might be interested.
In the past I've only seen casting flaws with these carbs but these checked out ok so I was keen to see if I could get the engine to a satisfactory
tune as it was obvious from the get go that it was running like sh1t due to linkage issues and whatever else that may be hiding within.
The repair goes like this....just quickly as I'm heading to the Dub Bunker for friday night celebs
Adj valves
replace/repair bodgy cable tie mount condensor
replace burnt points (remove dissy, lube the dry felt and advance mech., fit missing cable clamp to through body fitting)
repair carb linkage arms so the hardware can be tightened without the shafts binding
check float levels and jetting og set-up 45.135.F11.200 on 28 vents (set up by VW tuning "specialist" )
drop in a set of 60 idles
issues with progression and tuning persist on one carb, ends up fitted from new incorrect top gasket blocking idle air passages, also repair rquired
to incorrectly modified air filter bottom plate modded to let water out!!! All it did was let dirt in!!!
jetting ended up 50.120.F7.200 ignition miss persisted
points burnt already so further checks into the ignition
coil ends up being a resistor type and rotor had zero resistance with wire zero resistance, rectified that and YEE-HA
Sounds easy, some 20 hours, each jet change or tune adjustment required lifting off the body, full test drive up to 40 minutes each to replicate many
driving situations but a perfect result and a happy customer that had proof of some of the specialty VW tuning shops where this machine had been.....
Nice to have a happy ending
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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psimitar
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| posted on March 23rd, 2013 at 12:54 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by cb john
The " problem" with the pricing is in no understanding of the process of todays sheetmetal technology...the days of guillotines and scribers is long
gone...everything is done on CNC machines, which need to be programmed, set - up etc...all time spent transfers to hourly rate, which could range
from $ 80.0 to $200.0...depending on the shop charge out rate, reputation and requested accuracy and time of delivery...Happy Daze knows exactly ...
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CNC should be cheaper than manual cos all you have to do is zero the machine and press go. I should know as I've done this in a past job. Programming
a CNC lathe or miller isn't so hard either as this is done on a 3D CAD programme that create the batch file for the CNC machine.
Obviously there is money involved in the CAD but for actually setting simple CNC procedures it should be no more if not less than manual machining.
CNC costs more due to the outlay for the machinery. They make the programming out to be a black art but it's not really.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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cb john
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on March 23rd, 2013 at 05:43 PM |
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Very simplistic description...
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psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
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| posted on March 24th, 2013 at 03:04 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by cb john
Very simplistic description...
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Well it's not rocket science and people should be made aware that a lot of jobs seen as hard are actually quite straight forward
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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