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Author: Subject:  WPVW turbo oval progress - 443bhp (10.13@139.70mph)
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yes.gif posted on January 13th, 2008 at 10:36 PM
TRANSMISSION UPDATE


Well I managed to remove the transmission from the oval yesterday and strip it down for inspection . What I found is not pretty at all and pics will follow shortly .

I removed the drain plug from the transmission to drain the oil . What I expected to see come out was clean synthetic gear oil ........what did come out was oil that was heavily contaminated with aluminum and steel filings , small sections of crown wheel teeth , half a dozen tapered rollers from the pinion bearing and a large piece of the pinion bearing itself .

After stripping the entire transmission this was the damage -
1- pinion bearing smashed and cage and rollers totally dislodged
2- broken teeth on both the crownwheel and pinion
3- mainshaft ina bearing in front housing totally destroyed and worn off centre
4- 1st gear severley damaged from misaligned shafts
5- 2nd gear severley damaged from debris
6- 4th gear severley damaged from collapsed support bearing which is welded inside the gear
7- mainshaft severely damaged from collapsed front ina bearing , damaged teeth on both 1st and 2nd gears and 4th gear support bearing welded to shaft . Mainshaft had to be cut with the grinder to remove and salvage 3rd gear set
8- mainshaft bearing smashed with cage dislodged and all rollers to one side of bearing
9- gear carrier housing and selector housing broken

The entire transmission is destroyed , only saving the 3rd gear set , selector forks , rhino housing , side plates , and ZF LSD .

It is quite obvious to me that things had been going wrong in the transmission when competing at Warrick , and at the time I had not detected it . Back to the drawing board .




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posted on January 14th, 2008 at 07:49 AM



By the sounds if it Wayne if your going to do a job then you do it properly!!!



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posted on January 14th, 2008 at 09:52 PM



WOW !! Wayne ,big damage there . Those are very hard miles on that tranny .My last tranny breakage was after 3runs (willowbank ) on a fresh gearbox .I know how you feel :grind:
???? I hope or talk you into it , coming down to Portland to race mate .
Did you enjoy your Warwick dvd ,wayne .Your car was waycool at Warwick !!
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posted on January 14th, 2008 at 11:18 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by Dak-A-Tak
WOW !! Wayne ,big damage there . Those are very hard miles on that tranny .My last tranny breakage was after 3runs (willowbank ) on a fresh gearbox .I know how you feel :grind:
???? I hope or talk you into it , coming down to Portland to race mate .
Did you enjoy your Warwick dvd ,wayne .Your car was waycool at Warwick !!


Hi Peter , firstly thank Lisa for the DVD's that she put together and sent us . They are a credit to her . I can clearly see lots of time and lots of editing had to be done to produce such a fine movie of the weekend . I would like 1 more copy please and does she still have copies of Warrick 2006 DVD .

Secondly , I will be at Portland with the turbo oval , the sports sedan and my mate Chris' formula vee . The transmission damage was a slight set back in preparation for the event , however , I had all the parts in stock to resuirect the transmission . The gear train assemblies are already assembled and the tranny would have been finished if not for a worn selector shaft guide . The gear carrier housing has been sent to be re-bushed .

The new transmission specs are as follows -
4.11 1st
2.21 2nd
1.44 3rd
1.09 4th
3.44 R&P

looking forward to seeing you all in the southern states for the best VW party on the planet !!




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posted on January 15th, 2008 at 06:34 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by hypo-vw
Well I managed to remove the transmission from the oval yesterday and strip it down for inspection . What I found is not pretty at all and pics will follow shortly .

I removed the drain plug from the transmission to drain the oil . What I expected to see come out was clean synthetic gear oil ........what did come out was oil that was heavily contaminated with aluminum and steel filings , small sections of crown wheel teeth , half a dozen tapered rollers from the pinion bearing and a large piece of the pinion bearing itself .

After stripping the entire transmission this was the damage -
1- pinion bearing smashed and cage and rollers totally dislodged
2- broken teeth on both the crownwheel and pinion
3- mainshaft ina bearing in front housing totally destroyed and worn off centre
4- 1st gear severley damaged from misaligned shafts
5- 2nd gear severley damaged from debris
6- 4th gear severley damaged from collapsed support bearing which is welded inside the gear
7- mainshaft severely damaged from collapsed front ina bearing , damaged teeth on both 1st and 2nd gears and 4th gear support bearing welded to shaft . Mainshaft had to be cut with the grinder to remove and salvage 3rd gear set
8- mainshaft bearing smashed with cage dislodged and all rollers to one side of bearing
9- gear carrier housing and selector housing broken

The entire transmission is destroyed , only saving the 3rd gear set , selector forks , rhino housing , side plates , and ZF LSD .

It is quite obvious to me that things had been going wrong in the transmission when competing at Warrick , and at the time I had not detected it . Back to the drawing board .


What failed first Wayne, and what do you believe to be the cause.
Was the pinion retainer still 'retained'?




Quote:
Originally posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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yes.gif posted on January 28th, 2008 at 11:50 PM



Dave , the pinion bearing retaining plate was still in place . The pinion bearing broke at the front flange and one full set of rollers came out and then all hell broke loose inside the gearbox.
STILL NOT SURE IF THAT IS WHAT BROKE FIRST !! TOO MUCH DAMAGE .....




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yes.gif posted on January 30th, 2008 at 11:33 PM



transmission damage pics .

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yes.gif posted on January 30th, 2008 at 11:36 PM



more pics .

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yes.gif posted on January 30th, 2008 at 11:39 PM



more pics .

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yes.gif posted on January 30th, 2008 at 11:43 PM



more pics .

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yes.gif posted on January 30th, 2008 at 11:46 PM



more pics .

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posted on January 31st, 2008 at 12:05 AM



So what's the plan from here?.......are you going to put another beetle box back in or would you be looking at a kombi box?

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posted on January 31st, 2008 at 06:32 AM



1....4th seized on the shaft. (cause? lubrication or clearance)
2....once seized, gears spread apart breaking housing, and pinion bearing,
3....this lack of mesh also caused falure of CW&P and other gears.

If the other gears also started to seize on the shaft, then I would say lubrication.
I always like to add oil holes in the hubs to help with this, remembering that until the wheels begin to turn,
the mainshaft is running at engine rpm within 3rd and 4th.
Once the car is moving flat out, the pinion is spinning very fast within 1st and 2nd.
(because or their lower ratio),
but of all the ratios, 4th suffers the most,
running the fastest and longest relative to the mainshaft.
...I use maximum clearance on this ratio(end float AND more diametral clearance)

Flat out in fouth gear,
3rd gear on the mainshaft DOES spin at 1.444 times the pinion shaft speed(with your ratio) relative to the housing,
but the rpm relative to the shaft it runs on
is no problem....although I'll bet the oil has trouble staying along for the ride due to centrifugal force slinging it off.

I like to use a good 80/90 gear oil for hypoid diffs, despite the type-one not being hypoid.
The EP additives help with the loads.

Hope this helps Wayne.
If you need any parts let me know, I have a lot of left overs available.




Quote:
Originally posted by westi
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yes.gif posted on January 31st, 2008 at 10:52 PM



Thanks Dave . In the past I have only ever had trouble with my transmissions when using synthetic gear oils as in this instant . I too am starting to think about the oil being thrown off the shafts due to centrifugal forces.

I did have enough spares in stock to repair the transmission , assembled it last night and will probably get the oval back together next week .

I will be taking the oval to WSID for a severe floggin (as I am currently very pissed off with it ) before towing it all the way to Portland . It very nearly had a for sale sign attached to it last week !!

Transmission repaired as follows -
replaced 1st gear set with albins 4.11 (used)
replaced 2nd gear set with albins 2.21 (used)
reused albins 3rd gear set 1.44
replaced 4th gear set with albins 1.09 (new)
replaced 3-4 hub assembly (used)
replaced reverse gear (used)
replaced all synchro rings (new)
replaced pinion bearing (used metal cage type)
replaced mainshaft bearing (used)
replaced 3.44 ring and pinion (new)
replaced mainshaft ina bearing (used)
replaced gear carrier housing ( rebushed selectors)
replaced selector housing




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yes.gif posted on January 31st, 2008 at 11:11 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfella
I just read this thread from 1-31 last night - fabulous! How about some photos of the rollcage?


here are a couple of pics of the roll cage .

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posted on January 31st, 2008 at 11:22 PM



Hi Wayne,

Does that cage weld or bolt attach to the body or the pan? Is it a custom cage or a bond bars cage?

I need some idea's on how to best put a cage into my car. The easiest approach is to weld it to mounts that I can weld to the body especially when its off the pan. When the two are bolted together i'll get the rigidity that I need. Any chance you have some better pics of where the cage attaches to the body or chassis?
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yes.gif posted on February 2nd, 2008 at 12:47 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by 2443TT
Hi Wayne,

Does that cage weld or bolt attach to the body or the pan? Is it a custom cage or a bond bars cage?

Any chance you have some better pics of where the cage attaches to the body or chassis?


Hi Ian , the new rollcage in my oval is a custom made chromemoly cage that was manufactured by Chris Dowd Engineering @ Dapto , to comply with ANDRA specifications . Chris is an amazing engineer that provides only the top quality service and products .

The cage is fully welded into the oval and manufactured in a manner so that if I need to in the future , the body can be lifted from the pan with the cage fitted to the body structure .

I will take more detailed pics tomorrow showing the strengthening plates and mounting points and post them so that you can see in more detail .
Wayne .




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yes.gif posted on February 2nd, 2008 at 03:04 PM
CAGE DETAIL


pics of the rollcage in my oval .

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yes.gif posted on February 2nd, 2008 at 03:06 PM
CAGE PICS


more rollcage pics from my oval

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yes.gif posted on February 2nd, 2008 at 03:10 PM
CAGE PICS


more rollcage pics from my oval

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posted on February 2nd, 2008 at 08:07 PM



Very nice cage Wayne. Thanks for the pics you've given me a few more idea's. Are the cross door braces legal in NSW in street cars?
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yes.gif posted on February 3rd, 2008 at 11:24 PM



after 2 very long days on the oval , it is reassembled and only needs 2 axle boots and oil in both the engine and transmission .
following are some progress pics from today . They included the very abused clutch with the wornout 4-puk disc .
Im starting to think that someone has got into my oval and not treated it with the respect that it deserves ... they had better look out if I catch them !!

These first pics show how the plenims were leaking where they were attached to the throttle bodies . This is a possible reason for not being able to develop high boost pressure .

The 3rd pic shows how I machine the base of the plenims by attaching a sheet of 1200 wet and dry paper to a sheet of flat glass . Takes a fair bit of time to machine , but the results are outstanding .

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yes.gif posted on February 3rd, 2008 at 11:33 PM



more progress pics .

I also discovered that all 4 injectors had been leaking air under boost pressure . I removed all injectors , cleaned them and sealed them to the throttle bodies .

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yes.gif posted on February 3rd, 2008 at 11:39 PM



more progress pics .

I have removed the 4-puk disc and replaced it with a 3-puk disc as the 4-puk disc had too much slip from the start line .

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yes.gif posted on February 3rd, 2008 at 11:44 PM



more progress pics .

My son Dean turned up today and helped me put the engine back into the oval .

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yes.gif posted on February 12th, 2008 at 11:45 PM
PORTLAND PREPARATION PROGRESS


Well things in the WPVW camp have not run too smoothly over the past couple of weeks in preparation for portland .
You have seen how the clutch plate was on the oval in the above pics and after replacing the clutch disc with a new 3-puk , the engine was refitted and when the oval was fired up on monday last week , I found that the clutch would not release and I could not get gears .
I over adjusted the clutch and it still would not release . I then started the oval in 1st gear with my foot on the clutch and proceeded to test drive it up and down the street . It was very difficult to get gears and the clutch was also slipping very badly .
I knew then that the pressure plate diaphram had broken and distorted and the engine had to come back out to replace the pressure plate .
Tuesday night out comes the engine , only to find that the new clutch disc was now on the rivots and also needed replacing . I had a new 2600lb stage 3 pressure plate in stock but no clutch discs .
Thursday the new 4-puk disc arrives ( couldn't get another 3-puk from anywhere) . Thursday night fit new clutch and pressure plate . Refit engine and get oval finished at 2am .
Friday morning , test drive oval and everything feels fine .
Sunday afternoon put oval on dyno again and got some outstanding results . Ran engine on c-16 race fuel at 24psi boost and got 391.5bhp @ the rear wheels with 1811lbs of tractive effort . Engine sounded very cranky with this much boost , so we backed it off to 20psi and had 360bhp . The engine sounded a lot happier !! After getting these figures we shut the oval down to change the water in the intercooler . When we restarted the oval it wouldn't run properly . It popped and farted and lost power . We were very confused till Kevin put his hand on the microtec computer and nearly burnt it . We discovered that the exhaust heat under the car was radiating up through the rear floor area and heating up the ECU . This would not normally be an issue , but on the dyno we did a lot of testing that day .
Monday morning , I drive the oval out of the workshop to discover it has developed a loud whining noise in the transmission in 1st gear and a noisy mainshaft bearing . That afternoon I remount and insulate the ECU , fit new spark plugs , clean and check cap and rotor . I test drive the oval once again , cautiously at first and then up it !!
Never in my life have I driven something so quick !! 1st gear launch from 6000rpm ( 2 black lines 5m long ) shift light is set at 7500rpm and stays on , 2nd gear ( 2 black lines 40m long ) shift light on , 3rd gear ( 2 black lines 6m long ) . Checked tacho recal and engine revs very cleanly to 7900rpm . Drain oil from transmission and oil is full of metal .
This brings me to where I am tonight . Engine and transmission is back out of the oval . Transmission is stripped and the 2 mainshaft bearings have copped severe punishment . Have to go now and reassemble the transmission as I will be running at WSID tomorrow night at the street meet .
Will let you know how the oval goes .... I expect it to be very fast !!

On top of all this work , my apprentice Ben stayed back last night and we pulled the engine and transmission from the sports sedan to rectify an oil leak at the transmission . When we pulled the side cover from the diff we found 17 broken teeth on the crownwheel . I think someone has been giving it a floggin !! After the oval is finished we will then repair the sports sedan for portland .

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posted on February 13th, 2008 at 07:01 AM



Wayne your dedication to seeing this reach it's full potential is top shelf. Full marks to you for doing what nobody else has done. I personally love hearing about HP figures made on the dyno and then the times on the strip. good work!!



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posted on February 13th, 2008 at 07:54 AM



391.5bhp @ the rear is just astonishing Wayne!!! even at 360 that is still mighty impressive.
Look forward to seeing Oz's first 9 second street rego'ed bug.

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yes.gif posted on February 15th, 2008 at 01:41 AM
WSID wed 13th feb 08'


a few video links to youtube for my turbo oval beetle .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SifQfu3iBug 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FQtxpQHR98 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcvmUPqQxWs 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B6oXxOPp9A 

Hope you enjoy this as much as I do ........




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PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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posted on February 15th, 2008 at 05:28 AM



We love videos, thanx!!!

great wheel stand on the last one there, was the 60ft good for that pass.

car looks to be hooking up wonderfully, nice and straight too, great work!
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