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 ian.mezz
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| posted on March 12th, 2014 at 06:34 PM |
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or run this on track days .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBVRMSTK2GI
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hellbugged
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| posted on March 12th, 2014 at 06:47 PM |
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Do you have another panel that goes from the top of the rad to the fuel tank that's not installed in the photo?
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ian.mezz
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| posted on March 12th, 2014 at 06:50 PM |
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VW Golf TDi Snow Performance Driving
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV9kRdOYpHc
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1303Steve
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| posted on March 12th, 2014 at 07:14 PM |
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Hi Damo
The radiator has a cover over it, made by Westi
Steve
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1303Steve
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| posted on March 12th, 2014 at 07:23 PM |
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Just got a new PC, gone from XP to Windows 7 so I'm trying get things to work including sound, I will have a look at those links when I can hear them
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ian.mezz
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| posted on March 12th, 2014 at 07:30 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Just got a new PC, gone from XP to Windows 7 so I'm trying get things to work including sound, I will have a look at those links when I can hear them
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I would be inclined to take the big fan off the back of the radiator and put the 10 fan from off the front on the back and then go for a blast down
the fwy in 2nd or 3rd gear and see what the temps do .
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1303Steve
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| posted on March 12th, 2014 at 08:02 PM |
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Ian its not a problem on the street no matter what I do, its only after a few laps on a track that it gets hot
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ian.mezz
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| posted on March 13th, 2014 at 11:16 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Ian its not a problem on the street no matter what I do, its only after a few laps on a track that it gets hot
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yeah. I know
I am just thinking of things so that I could take it for a blast down the FWY 
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on March 13th, 2014 at 12:34 PM |
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The radiator needs to be lower, mine is about 300mm lower than yours , it's laid back on an angle but the air that comes in the inlet, hits all the
radiator surface area, I think , especially at speed, the top half of your radiator isn't getting any air flow, I don't think moving the intercooler
radiator will help. All cars running WAIC setups have their intercooler radiator in front like you have yours, it's very common.
My intercooler radiator almost covers my engine radiator as it's quite large, almost twice the size of yours & I don't have any overheating
problems
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vlad01
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| posted on March 13th, 2014 at 08:15 PM |
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radiators do not flow air efficiently by being forced by air ram. They flow far better with a low pressure behind them pulling air though.
it doesn't matter that the radiator doesn't have direct air flow on to its surface.
The problem is there is a lack of a flap Behind! the radiator, which is there to generate a vacuum behind the radiator. Air then will be pulled
through across the surface as all areas of the radiator have the same (similar) flow resistance potential. So that means air will automatically flow
up and through the top of the radiator regardless if its covered.
you just need to study what engineers have done on modern water cooled cars, especially mid to late 90s where grilles on cars were tiny, yet can cool
a V8. Your front intake is pretty big compared to some of the late 90s falcons and a like.
71 notchback,
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on March 14th, 2014 at 06:44 AM |
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The only experience I have with radiators is with my own wrx conversion, which is now almost 9 1/2 years old & has covered 259'987klm's,
including 27 track days without overheating. I don't have a flap or shroud behind my radiator either. But, the air going into my front air dam has
nowhere to go but through the radiator.
I think must have got incredibly lucky.
I also heard one day whilst watching the V8 supercars (hey I was bored) Whilst they were driving slow on a yellow flag, that they were all concerned
about the rising water temps because they don't run fans on their radiators, they rely completely on air being rammed into the radiator. I was a bit
surprised by that.
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1303Steve
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| posted on March 14th, 2014 at 07:31 AM |
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Hi Jak
I bow to your experience with this, I'm going to look into laying my radiator down, on my WBX Beetle I had the radiator tilted forward and had a much
larger radiator fitted, but when that car was turboed I only usedit on one track day for a few laps at Oran Park, but when it was NA I ran it at
Raleigh without any issues.
I did about 80-100 ks yesterday about 1/2 on freeways at 100-110 kph, it was a pretty hot day, 25-30 c, the whole time the temp sat on about 87C,
that's where the thermostat opens, if I wasn't wanting to use the car on the track I would be entirely satisfied with my cooling systems
performance.
vlad can you elaborate on this flap behind the radiator comment?
Steve
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on March 14th, 2014 at 07:56 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi Jak
I bow to your experience with this, I'm going to look into laying my radiator down,
Steve
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Don't get me wrong Stevie, I'm the first to tell you that I had no idea what I was doing! I laid mine down on an angle so that I still had full use
of my boot space! LOL!
Funnily enough, a couple of years later after doing my conversion, I was reading in a Porsche magazine that an aftermarket company called Cargraphic,
who specialize in hotting up Porsche in Germany, designed a kit for watercooled porsches that did away with the 2 separate radiators, went to a single
radiator & laid it back on an angle which was reported to increase down force by 9kg per what ever speed, can't remember.?
I took the rear wing off my car when I did the conversion & it feels fine over 200+kph, so maybe the front radiator laid back helps???
It's all speculation without a wind tunnel
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vlad01
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| posted on March 14th, 2014 at 08:17 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi Jak
I bow to your experience with this, I'm going to look into laying my radiator down, on my WBX Beetle I had the radiator tilted forward and had a much
larger radiator fitted, but when that car was turboed I only usedit on one track day for a few laps at Oran Park, but when it was NA I ran it at
Raleigh without any issues.
I did about 80-100 ks yesterday about 1/2 on freeways at 100-110 kph, it was a pretty hot day, 25-30 c, the whole time the temp sat on about 87C,
that's where the thermostat opens, if I wasn't wanting to use the car on the track I would be entirely satisfied with my cooling systems
performance.
vlad can you elaborate on this flap behind the radiator comment?
Steve
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I can take a pic to explain it a bit better.
I'll use my VR as the perfect example. It doesn't have direct air flow to the radiator, it can flow air as low as 30km/h without use of fans, heck
the radiator's core was over 50% blocked too. Never gets over much about stat temp (92º).
All water cooled cars from at least 80s run this flap.
When I used to build water cooled computers, The best setup was draw though. you got far more air flow drawing the air though with the fans rather
than pushing it though. Every ºc was critical for overclocked PCs, so cooling system knowledge and experimentation, development amongst the community
is huge. Automotive cooling designs are similar from my experience.
Also I think you should run an auxiliary water pump up front, I am pretty certain 996 and 997s do as they are rear engine and front rad.
71 notchback,
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 matberry
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| posted on March 14th, 2014 at 09:03 AM |
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Agree with the cooling flap idea on the fan area outlet. Modern cars cooling system are dependant of the undertrays to make the venturi effect work
which draws the air thru the radiator from behind which is more efficient than trying to force it thru from the front...... or so I hear 
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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vlad01
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| posted on March 14th, 2014 at 09:57 AM |
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That is absolutely correct.
I have a multitude of cars under-tray setups I can snap a pic of each to give you guys the idea.
71 notchback,
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ian.mezz
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| posted on March 14th, 2014 at 11:08 AM |
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that's what I said , lower the radiator.
it don't need any flappy things on the back , Subaru's have slim line radiators fans, it doesn't have the heat knock on effect like a Subaru where
the heat from the radiator is blowing heat back onto the motor. the radiator could be smaller and wider if any thing. I have a little radiator in mine
and I test it on the45deg days in 3rd gear at 110Ks fwy.
Steve realy doesn't need to change anything just do track days in winter
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on March 14th, 2014 at 12:52 PM |
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better still Stevie, rig up the air con & blow it straight onto the radiator, there you go, problem solved
Any power loss will be compensated with a bigger Turbo!
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on March 14th, 2014 at 04:27 PM |
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I retract my last statement Steve, new grill idea, now the problem is solved.
Although it may open up another problem.....................
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1303Steve
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| posted on March 14th, 2014 at 06:39 PM |
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Now Jak thats just silly, those wheels would look horrible on my car,
btw just did an RMS check on that rego, no engneers report so it must be a stocker
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ricola
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| posted on March 15th, 2014 at 11:30 PM |
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Steve,
The first thing I would try is to put a straight air damn across the front of the car, you could fill in under the valance down to the bottom of your
guards and all the way across, maybe leaving an opening for your existing scoop. This way you create high pressure zone in front of your valance and
direct air up to it (bit like my Kamei). With my speedster, extending the scoop forwards made a massive difference as the air hits the bumper and then
gets diverted down at an angle, missing the rad intake, having the lower part of an air damn would catch this flow and convert it to pressure..
Rich
PS Pretty sure my 996 doesn't have any other pumps than the engine mounted one. The GT 911s tilted radiator works in conjunction with a new top vent
ahead of the bonnet line, that would have the main aero effect and draws air through the rad, the angle is just to give space to package it behind.
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1303Steve
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| posted on March 16th, 2014 at 08:37 AM |
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Hi Rich
I'm going to try tilting the radiator first so that it gets a more direct airflow, I really like the look of the air con grille in the front of my
car so I will do everything I can to keep that.
The point you make about the bumper diverting airflow makes a lot of sense, maybe I could make up a temporary scoop for track days. I've only had
this problem after a few laps on a track, there's noway I could have this issues on the street without getting arrested or maybe going to Europe and
driving on an autobahn.
Steve
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ian.mezz
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| posted on March 16th, 2014 at 12:03 PM |
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here you go cardboard don't hold heat.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on March 16th, 2014 at 12:37 PM |
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On my dub all the hot air gets pushed out before the front suspension bulk head. I still have most of my spare wheel tub there,
My radiator sits Below my bonnet catch .
the hot air just comes out the space in the picture between radiator and front bulk head . I rolled the front apron lip down and painted the bottom
of the radiator black so people don't even see it
ps I have never race my car . 
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vlad01
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| posted on March 16th, 2014 at 02:19 PM |
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pics as promised.
here few examples.
note on this ford, the radiator is smack bang int he middle where the ford badge is. the intake is just big enough to jam your fist in there. Just
compare to the number plate. The bottom of the radiator is just flush with the intake, the top is level with the bonnet protector.
under it.
my daily, under neither
the other car
flap seen from the engine bay.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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1303Steve
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| posted on March 16th, 2014 at 06:43 PM |
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Thanks vlad, that makes it clear now, just like the Toranas GTR & XU1s used. So I have few avenues to pursue, I'm going to do some work on this
issue after Powercruise
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 16th, 2014 at 07:43 PM |
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Good to see you're going in for surgery
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vlad01
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| posted on March 16th, 2014 at 11:02 PM |
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if you wanted to cheat adding one of these flaps. You can pick up one like one my car from a wrecker for few bucks. its only clipped on with the 4
retaining clips you see there. its made out of a soft rubbery like plastic and can take a thumping.
Its soft enough you can trim it down to suit with a knife. That thing has hit foxes, hares, buckets, rocks, coffee table, brooms, tiles, plaster
board, paint tins and all kinds crap the rat race of Melbourne tosses on the road.. Still there as you can see.
71 notchback,
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1303Steve
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| posted on March 17th, 2014 at 10:15 AM |
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Hi vlad
I will find something to make it out of that is flexible, luckily where I need to mount it is near the front wheels so it will be lifted up most times
as the wheels hit a bump
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vlad01
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| posted on March 17th, 2014 at 11:10 AM |
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I would just grab a VP-VS lip. its pretty generic fit and can fit just about most cars. I have a couple laying around if you need more detailed pics
of it by itself.
its about the same width as the front of my notch too.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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