| [ Total Views: 214372 | Total Replies: 905 | Thread Id: 36521 ] |
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 matberry
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| posted on February 16th, 2012 at 07:50 AM |
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Hi Wayne, awsome work as always.
All this clutch talk, so I may as well add my 2c. I'd call the tapered disc as a flexing flywheel, I'm sure it would have crossed your mind. Our
clutch guy's have commented re Kenedy's specification compared with custom designed/built local product. Jim Berry (no relation) has over 40 years
of engineering clutches and can supply a single disc setup that will handle well over 500 hp. He has designed and built single disc, 200mm clutches
that held onto the turbo skyline touring cars from the nineties and many many more since. His speciality is a non distorting high clamp force with
minimal pedal pressure.
Maybe give him a call.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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 hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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 posted on February 16th, 2012 at 09:11 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
I'd call the tapered disc as a flexing flywheel
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thanks for the imput everyone , I do enjoy reading others opinions and experiences as it is helpful information to all of us .
after measuring the clutch disc lining and finding it tapered a little over .5mm , I gave the disc to my father Allan who put it in his lathe to check
and machine it . He found that the material on the flywheel side was perfectly straight and the material on the pressure plate side was badly worn
tapered .
I then put a straight edge across the pressure plate shoe to find it grossly distorted due to excessive heat . I have been riding the clutch too hard
and for too long when staging my oval with the staging brake . I will have to change my staging habits to be a lot easier on the clutch assembly .
Team 
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on February 19th, 2012 at 11:20 PM |
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fuel rails are finished and polished , ready for installation .
hold down brackets are manufactured , polished and also installed
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Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on February 19th, 2012 at 11:25 PM |
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the engine is fitted back into the oval and I had clearance issues with the blow-off valve . I then removed the cross-over tube and repositioned the
blow-off valve at an angle to the right and now everything clears .
I then changed all the boost lines from the turbo to the wastegate with new stainless braided lines and Aeroflow fittings .
the MSD ignition control box and coil are installed and wired-up
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Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on February 19th, 2012 at 11:29 PM |
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Cindy models the new 3 1/2" exhaust tubing , getting her hand right to the other end .
The turbo exhaust outlet is connected with the 3.5" mandrel bends and the ovals' engine is fired-up .
All sounds good for the dyno on Tuesday afternoon
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Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on February 19th, 2012 at 11:30 PM |
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a couple more pics at the shop late on Sunday evening
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Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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humpty
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| posted on February 20th, 2012 at 12:48 AM |
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Insanely impressive stuff Wayne.... You guys on the east coast sure are pushing the creativity and development.... This weekend is gonna be a blast!
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on March 7th, 2012 at 09:51 PM |
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well my turbo oval ran well at WSID VW Showdown 2012 taking out quickest ET & speed for the weekend with a pass of 10.13@139.70mph
After putting my oval on the dyno thursday afternoon I could not get it to make power and it had a high RPM misfire . The new MSD ignition was giving
electrical interference with the microtec EFI ecu . Back to the WPVW workshop , remove the MSD and loom and reinstall the promaster coil ignition .
Friday morning back on the dyno and the oval will only make 380rwhp . This is 65rwhp less than the last race meeting at Warwick 2011 . I still ran my
oval with a very fat , but safe tune and it went ok but I only made 1 full throttle pass as the air intake temps are far too high . I now have to do
more homework with the air intake temps before running the Sydney Jamboree March 31 .
below are some pics from this event of my turbo oval
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Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on March 7th, 2012 at 10:12 PM |
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big launch on my 10.13 run
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Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on March 8th, 2012 at 05:49 PM |
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more oval pics .....I just love it !!
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Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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whathaveidone
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| posted on March 8th, 2012 at 07:26 PM |
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front shot of burnout is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dak-A-Tak
A.k.a.: Peter Page
Custom Title Time!
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| posted on March 8th, 2012 at 08:03 PM |
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Wayne ! Turbo is starting to look good to me !
The run you had with Rod was Tuff , cool , very close . You had a little trouble keeping straight , Left front wheel power standing first 3 gears ,
Then Rod broke out by 200's . That tuff race .
Hope you find the power loss , any idea's ?
What was you best 1/8 mile time ?
Well done Wayne and crew .
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on March 9th, 2012 at 07:26 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Dak-A-Tak
Hope you find the power loss , any idea's ?
What was you best 1/8 mile time ?
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thanks Pete . Haven't looked into the power loss yet as I have been busy with customer work . Got back from WSID , drain fuel systems on all 3 cars
and packed them away . I will have to drag the oval out early next week and go back to square one with it . Compression test , check for intake leaks
etc , then manufacture a cold air intake duct to the turbo and I might even reinstall my air-water intercooler . I dont really want to carry the extra
20kg but the engines health is no.1 priority to me . I am looking into running 2 extra injectors at the intake of the turbo to spray methanol into the
turbo at and above a preset boost level to cool the intake air charge . Will keep you posted on developments .
best 1/8 time at WSID was 6.59@111.74 compared to Warwick 2011 on a slippery surface 6.33@113 . 2 tenths faster would have put my oval into the 9sec
category . Wayne
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on March 9th, 2012 at 07:47 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hypo-vw
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Dak-A-Tak
Hope you find the power loss , any idea's ?
What was you best 1/8 mile time ?
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thanks Pete . Haven't looked into the power loss yet as I have been busy with customer work . Got back from WSID , drain fuel systems on all 3 cars
and packed them away . I will have to drag the oval out early next week and go back to square one with it . Compression test , check for intake leaks
etc , then manufacture a cold air intake duct to the turbo and I might even reinstall my air-water intercooler . I dont really want to carry the extra
20kg but the engines health is no.1 priority to me . I am looking into running 2 extra injectors at the intake of the turbo to spray methanol into the
turbo at and above a preset boost level to cool the intake air charge . Will keep you posted on developments .
best 1/8 time at WSID was 6.59@111.74 compared to Warwick 2011 on a slippery surface 6.33@113 . 2 tenths faster would have put my oval into the 9sec
category . Wayne
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Hi Wayne,
the addition of a single extra nozzle at the turbo OUTLET is a good way to cool the charge as it leaves the compressor.
I have seen the instant atomisation cool the pipe enough so that you wont need to add that extra 20kg.
It seems to work better than introducing the fuel before the compressor.
Jeff Watson did this to his little Sprite in the late nineties and it was the improvement he needed to get him from high eights to consistent low
eights.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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modnrod
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on March 9th, 2012 at 08:26 AM |
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| Quote: |
Jeff Watson did this to his little Sprite in the late nineties and it was the improvement he needed to get him from high eights to consistent low
eights.
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Damn that was a scary little hotrod......
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on March 9th, 2012 at 06:39 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dangerous
the addition of a single extra nozzle at the turbo OUTLET is a good way to cool the charge as it leaves the compressor.
It seems to work better than introducing the fuel before the compressor
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thanks Dave , I can see where this will work quite well . I will have discussions with a couple of dudes that are keeping tabs on what I am doing with
my turbo engine and will keep you posted on developments .
Your input is very much appreciated as I am breaking new ground with type-4 performance and have to tread very carefully as the surface I proceed on
is very thin and slippery , one wrong step and it will all come crashing down around me . Wayne
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on March 9th, 2012 at 06:40 PM |
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Just curious about your MSD issues Wayne. What kind of plugs and plug leads were you using?
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on March 10th, 2012 at 09:59 PM |
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I'm loving what you are doing Wayne!! Over the last few years you have had 2 steps forward and one step back but it seems of late each step is going
that bit further in the right direction!! You are thinking outside the square( the type 1 square lol) by using a type 4 based engine to make some real
nice hp!! An underrated engine to most but the potential of them is huge!! Certainly not cheap but neither is building a reliable type 1 based engine
especially if it's going to run big boost!! Troy can testify to that!
Hopefully the power loss is something that is a simple fix!!
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!
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Governor
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| posted on March 10th, 2012 at 10:17 PM |
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Nice car, great looking engine, how do you keep it cool or does it only get used for the 1/4?
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
Veteran Volks Folk
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| posted on March 12th, 2012 at 12:20 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Dak-A-Tak
Wayne ! The run you had with Rod was Tuff , cool , very close . You had a little trouble keeping straight , Left front wheel power standing first 3
gears , Then Rod broke out by 200's . That tuff race .
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here is video footage of that run Pete
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olZiztve67Q
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on March 12th, 2012 at 12:28 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 2443TT
Just curious about your MSD issues Wayne. What kind of plugs and plug leads were you using?
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I am using resistor type plugs with good quality 8mm Eagle plug leads . The leads are not spiral wire core , so it confuses me as to why this is
happeneing . A very reliable source tells me that the super high output ignition system will not work well with a distributor as there is a tendency
for arching inside the cap and also crossfire , however I am using this system in Chris Boltons turbo bug with a distributor and it is sensational . I
will talk to Microtec Aust regarding this and see if they have had past experiences with MSD interference
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
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| posted on March 12th, 2012 at 12:31 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Black64
Nice car, great looking engine, how do you keep it cool or does it only get used for the 1/4?
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thanks for your positive comments , this is my drag engine so I dont run cooling accessories . The alcohol fuel keeps it pretty cool . When driving my
oval on the street , I have another type-4 engine with Porsche cooling fan and shroud .
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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humpty
Bishop of Volkswagenism
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| posted on March 12th, 2012 at 01:43 AM |
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Believe it or not Wayne.... When I first fitted my MSD leads (which I made to suit), I had interference issues with the Megajolt system.... Originally
I had the leads to 3 & 4 running along the intake runner with the sensor harness (none shielded 20g wires) there also.... Fixed the issue by
rerouting the leads away from the sensor harness.... So I guess what I'm saying is.... Are the leads running near any other ignition or sensor
harnesses?
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Governor
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on March 12th, 2012 at 09:29 AM |
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I would love to have this in my shed.
What times does it do with the other motor ?
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on March 12th, 2012 at 10:39 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by humpty
Believe it or not Wayne.... When I first fitted my MSD leads (which I made to suit), I had interference issues with the Megajolt system.... Originally
I had the leads to 3 & 4 running along the intake runner with the sensor harness (none shielded 20g wires) there also.... Fixed the issue by
rerouting the leads away from the sensor harness.... So I guess what I'm saying is.... Are the leads running near any other ignition or sensor
harnesses?
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Im with humpty here. Interference issue can be a major pain in the ass. Different ecu's behave and report errors differently too, so it can be
tricky to diagnose.
Running the sensor harness seperate and shielded from all other wiring really helps eliminate issues considerably.
Also reluctor sensor triggering is more sensative to RF and high voltage spikes. Changing to a hall effect sensor which produces a clean 12V square
wave output cures many evils. It fixed the issues I was having.
The only other thing Ive ever encountered was that a really good ignition system will amplify any earthing issues you have, so running at least 2
earths from the engine/tranny to the pan helps with that.
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
Veteran Volks Folk
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| posted on March 12th, 2012 at 06:17 PM |
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thanks for the input guys , I think earthing issues could be eliminated as the engine and tranny are solid mounted to the chassis & body in my
oval in 7 different locations .
I think my coil lead runs too close to the wiring loom ..... I will rectify this and reinstall the MSD before another dyno session next week
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
Veteran Volks Folk
Australias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132mph street tyres
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| posted on March 19th, 2012 at 11:42 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hypo-vw
I will rectify this and reinstall the MSD before another dyno session next week
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well my dyno session on the oval might have to be put back a couple of days . tonight I put the oval back in the shop , removed the spark plugs , did
a compression test and found No.4 cylinder down to just 25psi ....not good !! to add to this I had a visual look down each plug hole and found what I
suspect is a cracked piston on No.2 cylinder .
I did fear that damage may have occured to the pistons and/or ringlands as at WSID I experienced what I now believe to be detonation on each run just
before the finish line due to excessively high air intake temps . On the day I thought it might have been lifting a head but the engine shows no signs
of leakage between the heads and barrels .
tonight I removed the engine and tomorrow night I will remove the heads & barrels for inspection
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Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
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BeetleBug
Casual Dubber
Posts: 22
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Registered: February 12th, 2010
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Location: Norway
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 03:30 AM |
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I hope you dont mind me asking but what intake temp do you see after a full run?
Best rgs
BB
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 5901
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 07:43 AM |
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Bummer Wayne.
I have been thinking about this a bit, and there may be an underlying factor.
Whilst I never had a chance to put a thermocouple in my blowers,
the Autorotor specs said there would be a temp rise of about 100 degrees C at 30psi.
A turbo should be less than this.
I had as much as 42psi and 10:1 comp
and in hindsight, I could have been better off with less ignition timing,
but other than that,
there were not really any symptoms that were not sorted with fuel delivery.
Perhaps there is a restriction on the exhaust side that is heating the incoming charge on overlap?
More exh port volume, or larger A/R turbine housing are possible areas to work with.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 962
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 10:59 AM |
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Have you considered runing a water/meth system with nozzles both pre and post turbo? I run two 150cc pre turbo and a 300cc post intercooler setup on
my skyline. The effects are pretty impressive.
On a hot day of 38 degrees when stuck in traffic it is not uncommon to see a heat soaked temp of 60 degress at the intake. Get on boost and with the
water/meth operating, it immediatly knocks 15 to 20 degrees out of the air temps post intercooler. I am sure that it is actually more than this too,
because the air temp sensor is slow to react and I don't ever get to see the temp drop curve stabilise at a lowerst value before having to get off
the throttle.
Another benefit was being about to run 26lb boost with 25 degrees of ignition with 12.8:1 AFR's while maintaining EGT's below 830 degrees. The
knock monitoring system records noise values lower than I used to see with just pump fuel and much less boost.
If I had to guess, its probably a combination of your air temps and your elevated EGT's and combustion chamber temps that are causing your detonation
issues at the top end of the track. Ive seen this on methanol burning v8's too. There is a point in the top end of the rev range when under max
load where they have to drown the engine in fuel to keep EGT's down. Ive always felt that even a tiny bit of water injection post turbo would do
wonders for these methanol burners by eliminating the hot spots in the combustion chambers.
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