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 VWCOOL
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| posted on July 6th, 2004 at 06:31 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 71superbug
so yeah. with the creative bone. correct tools. and right skills. half of the costs you have put down there would not be anywhere near as high
correct?. and why do u require a new fuel tank?
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Nah, I think those conversion costs are pretty-well spot-on, maybe even conservative...
Pay your debts, CxxT
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humpty
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| posted on July 9th, 2004 at 10:02 PM |
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If you go the EJ20T route, you will end up with around 250hp (FW), which is around 225 @ the wheels.....Very conservative I might add. If you are
running a bigger bore exhaust and aircleaner set-up, you could add maybe 5-10%!
Think like this....My brothers Notch does EZ flat 13's all day (spinning the wheels I might add!), gets 45mpg, is legal and runs a (tuff built)
standard ratio TI box and swayaway axles.....A bigger turbo is in the pipeline now!
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71superbug
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| posted on July 10th, 2004 at 02:53 AM |
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ej20t has 250hp at the flywheel?. what year EJ20T u lookin at?. or u lookin at the jap spec one out of the WRX??
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71superbug
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| posted on July 12th, 2004 at 06:35 AM |
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???
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pete wood
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| posted on July 12th, 2004 at 12:51 PM |
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The sti motor is 221kw or 300hp at the flywheel.
The aussie wrx issue is 180kw or 220hp approx at the flywheel.
You might be interested in this pdf if you wanna go with an EJ. http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/files/SAE_boxer.pdf
I used the ej25 quad cam NA coz it had more cubes and less (gbox smashing) power. 119kw or 165hp. However, the torque is huge right of idle and it
spins my 31x10"r15s round any corner in 2nd gear (1800 kombi box) on tarmac.
seagulls right too, the EJ20t motor would be suicide in a trike. Not only that, EJ motors are heavy. The weight for each of them is listed in the pdf
above.
Think "Eternal wheelstand"! 
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Baja Wes
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| posted on July 12th, 2004 at 01:38 PM |
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actually the STi motor is only rated at 206kW or 276HP, which is the japanese HP limit. They can't claim any higher, there is debate whether they are
actually higher or not.
And I'm pretty sure early WRX motors were 147kw (197HP), they then went to 150 something kw, and are now higher. I haven't kept record.
In general Australian spec motors will be lower HP than jap spec ones due to the different fuel in japan, they run motor's harder with higher
compression ratios.
And for the record 180kW is actually 241HP, not 220. 
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 barls
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| posted on July 12th, 2004 at 01:44 PM |
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and also higher octaine ratings our pulp is still only their ulp and they have 2 more above this
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71superbug
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| posted on July 13th, 2004 at 02:36 AM |
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yeah the ej20t i was looking at is the one from the liberty RS. 147 kw (197hp).
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pete wood
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| posted on July 13th, 2004 at 08:11 PM |
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SORRY GUYS.
2 + 2 = ? (7000hp) maybe.....
never was any good at maths. still, you got the right numbers in the end. :thumb
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humpty
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 03:25 PM |
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What do you want to stick this engine into anyway?
Anything smaller that a TIII is near on impossible without maror surgery!
Forget a Bug with a bus box! The only way to get one under a decklid, is to chop up the torsion housing and run short bars. Then we are talkin'
engineering.
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71superbug
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 06:42 PM |
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it would have been into a 71 superbug. 
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pete wood
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| posted on July 17th, 2004 at 07:08 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by humpty
The only way to get one under a decklid, is to chop up the torsion housing and run short bars. Then we are talkin' engineering.
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Humpty, there is always another way to do things. Cutting torsion tubes is ugly and, in some states, more than likely illegal. However, you will need
alot of creative engineering and imagination to make it fit and be easy to work on.
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71superbug
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| posted on July 19th, 2004 at 04:13 AM |
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yeah. not impossible. and if i were to do it i would do it properly. wether i need to get an engineers approval or not.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on July 19th, 2004 at 08:26 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 71superbug
yeah. not impossible. and if i were to do it i would do it properly. wether i need to get an engineers approval or not.
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If you don't get it approved then you haven't done it properly.
If you need to understand how difficult it would be to fit simply check out Reub's car;
http://offroadvw.net/vwrx/
There are no more torsion bars, and the body has been seriously cut such that there is virtually none of it left at the rear.
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pete wood
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| posted on July 19th, 2004 at 05:49 PM |
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Wes, didn't Reuben cut up his car to fit the porsche gbox in? Surely there's another way of doing it. If 71 keeps with a kombi box and builds it up
tough, he wouldn't need to cut the torsion bars out at all. Seems like a better solution to cutting the chassis. However 71, you will still need room
for the turbo and to fit the heads in properly at the back of the car. Check out this page and you'll see what I mean. It an EJ25 but the effect is
the pretty much the same.
http://www.vanbran.com/bug/conversion1.htm
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Baja Wes
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| posted on July 19th, 2004 at 09:05 PM |
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yes reub has a porsche box, but the engine is still big.
The EJ20 doesn't fit in between the side panels at the rear of the beetle body (sides of the engine bay). It is a big sucker.
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humpty
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| posted on July 21st, 2004 at 12:25 AM |
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I have done loads of measurements, and i know it can be done, but like I said...Loads of cutting to get it too fit. And that was because you want a
bus box and that is why I said stick with a bug box....The length is the main issue here! Width is not a real problem, but still loads of cutting and
you will more than likely have to remove the timing belt covers, relocate the oil filler and cut a bloody great hole in the firewall for the intake,
especially if you EJ20T.
All that said, I still want to do it.
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71superbug
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| posted on July 21st, 2004 at 03:40 AM |
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sorry wes. i meant i will do it properly. wether it requires engineering or not. not approval. sorry. what bug box can handle this sort of power?.
reub's is crazy. that is wat made me want to do the conversion in the 1st place.
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humpty
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| posted on July 21st, 2004 at 01:13 PM |
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A much modded bug box will cope, but you can break anything if you try hard enough! Like I said B4, my brothers notch runs a standard style box.
Gusseted, big side plates, Monster Diff, welded gears and all sorts of internal mods. No special ratios as the car is road car, but still manages flat
13's all day.
Just think about that for a moment.... 45mpg, legal, full interior, electric windows, fantastic long distance road car and very quiet too! Add some
better quality tyres, tighten up the suspension a little and fit a drag box and you will run a lot quicker, but at a cost to drivabilty.....What do
you want?
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pete wood
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| posted on July 21st, 2004 at 04:40 PM |
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Hey Wes
what's your opinion of gusseted boxes. I have heard it weakens the metal, but others say it's the way to go.
71;
have you checked out the subbug yahoo group. There's a guy there with the EJ20tt in an empi imp. He is using a swingaxle box that's built up tough.
I have been told that swingaxle boxes are the toughest configuration for bug style boxes. However, IRS would mean you could move the box slightly
forward I think. This could give you abit more room.
[Edited on 21-7-2004 by pete wood]
[Edited on 21-7-2004 by pete wood]
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71superbug
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| posted on July 22nd, 2004 at 04:38 AM |
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yeah i also heard that the swingaxle box was stronger. has a 3.88 final drive whereas the irs has 4.125?. dunno how true this is but thats what i
heard. move it slightly forward? wouldnt that cause a lot of problems and require quite a bit of work ?
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Baja Wes
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| posted on July 22nd, 2004 at 08:40 AM |
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late swingers and IRS boxes are 3.88. early swingers are lower.
Stock IRS is stronger than stock swingaxle. I speak from experience (broke 3 swingers, 0 IRS beetle, 0 IRS kombi). Swingaxles can be beefed up alot
but it costs huge amounts of money. The CV's on the IRS absorb alot of the shocks and help the gearbox live longer than the swinger.
I personally would (and did) go to a bus box. There is shit all length difference between a bus box and a beetle box.
I wouldn't gusset a beetle box, I would just go straight to a bus box.
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humpty
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| posted on July 22nd, 2004 at 09:55 PM |
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Wes is right on about box strength and ratios but one thing I must question is bus/bug length difference. Even though the difference is minimal, I
think in a stock bodied bug the difference is a massive issue. Even with a standard bug box, the overall length of the EJ20 engine is too great. The
issue is not the crankshaft/pulley clearance, but the timing cover/innerguard/engine cover relation that is in question. Being that 71's bug is a
late model, he will have slightly more width in the rear of his car to play with, but he will more than likely have to remove the timing belt covers
to get it under, and make the rear apron and guards removable as most of the inner guard will be removed. Which of course opens up the bumper mount
problems also.....Not so easy is it?
That said, I have been looking @ doing this to my 63 bug for a few years now. Was gonna stay with an aircooler for this car, but my SVX conversion and
my brothers Notch is changing my ideas!!!!
Just remember...Nothing is impossible!
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seagull
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| posted on July 22nd, 2004 at 10:00 PM |
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subaru gets too you !
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
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humpty
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| posted on July 22nd, 2004 at 10:16 PM |
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Too bloody right!
And they are so smooooth to drive!
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seagull
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| posted on July 22nd, 2004 at 10:31 PM |
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come to the other side !
Um max will take you for a ride on the subaru trike did you see it on tv ?
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
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pete wood
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| posted on July 22nd, 2004 at 10:33 PM |
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the issue with the bus box is the width,
that means it has to go higher up between the forks of the chassis and so you lose clearnace above the box and for the starter motor :o
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Baja Wes
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| posted on July 23rd, 2004 at 08:46 AM |
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I had a poke around for a photo that shows how far back my kombi box sat. This one is the 1800 box.
You can see relative to the gearbox mounting bracket at the rear of the forks, the gearbox sits back in almost the same position as the beetle box.
There ain't much in it.
And the width isn't that bad. You simply need to notch the forks a little, but that's easy. Especially compared to the rest of the work he is going
to have to do.
I have mounted my gearbox high in the chassis, but that's cos it's an offroader and I wanted the engine a little higher for clearance. You can mount
the kombi box just as low as you could mount the beetle gearbox I reckon.
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1303Steve
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| posted on July 23rd, 2004 at 09:00 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
that means it has to go higher up between the forks of the chassis and so you lose clearnace above the box and for the starter motor :o
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Hi
You could then raise the luggage compartment floor to give more clearance like Wes has done, make it removable for access. Going higher will also give
better sump clearance.
1302Steve
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pete wood
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| posted on July 23rd, 2004 at 10:28 AM |
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Hey Wes,
the gbox has to go abit higher. It's significantly wider than the beetle one and won't sit as low. I know this from putting the 002 box in my
chassis. you can bend down the seams on the horns to give more clearance but in the end it has to sit higher.
Also, how much body lift have you got, coz by looking at the pic there has to be about 2" between the upper shock mount and the access hole in the
body. This has some effect on clearance too. But I like your setup.
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