| [ Total Views: 213228 | Total Replies: 93 | Thread Id: 2501 ] |
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 BenettonVW
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 01:40 PM |
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Hey again.
I disagree with the free directory. This has been 18 months of hard work.. HARD. Why now give the fruits of our labour to businesses for free when
originally, the only business that wanted to know us was Mick Motors. He was the ONLY one that even RESPONDED to my emails, and I sent probably 20
sposorship emails, to every VW business with some sort of web presence.. I mean, how hard is it to respond to an email and say 'no thanks, but
good luck.' Needless to say it left a sour taste. This side of the discussion reminds of that story when the the Hen cooks the bread, but first
has to get the wheat and shit.. Asks for help.. 'Not I' said the pig and so on.. Well.. I feel like Miss fricken Hen here, and if all those
other 'pigs' didn't wanna help make the fricken bread, why should we let them eat it for free?? 
*Slaps himself* Sorry... Bit outta control, but you get the jist.
We know there is VW businesses out there, and if we wanna find em we can. From a business' perspective, they want to be proactive, and not
waiting for their customers, and a ongoing information database such as this is not going to come cheap.. Don't be afraid of sponsorship. They
claim it all as business costs.. So if you pay taxes, then here is it finally coming back to help you.. Because it is tax payers $$.
Don't throw this away for the sake of some $$.. |
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 Grey 57
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 02:05 PM |
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Maybe it's time for a simple poll of the members
- Keep Mick Motors as the single sponsor of the forum.
- Open it up to others on the basis of the sponsorship packages discussed.
I'm sure there are plenty of members who have not had a formal say because they agree with what has already been said.
Dean
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fatboy
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 04:45 PM |
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Sooty,
Having a sponser is not a recomendation.
Magizines / newspapers only continue to operate on their advertising income and take advertising from almost anyone.
If you have a bad experiance with a company then it has nothing to do, either legally or morally with the people who carry that companies
advertisments.
Also, with regards to freedom of speech, pick up any trade magazine and you will see letters from readers who have had a bad experiance with companys
who advertise with the mag. Its a fact of life that all companys (Like everyone else) cant please all people all the time, and some people will
complain about anything.
The important thing is that whether through this forum or in a magizine companys get the oppportunity to respond. I have seen more than a few people
make themselves look very silly by making untrue or exaggerated statements about their "Bad" experiance only to have the company respond
with documented facts, also I have seen a number of cases where company's have just simply had to apologise.
In short (OK well not that short) I can think of no company that seeks to gag it's clients (Apart from few "Adult" clubs where I
believe thats the whole point  ).
So these are both non-issues.
" Captain Picard, why are there no Indians on the Enterprise ? Don't you need IT Support ? "
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Grey 57
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 06:58 PM |
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Fatboy, I think that sooty makes a good point. We need to be careful about who this forum uses as a sponsor.
There will be, whether its intended or not, a percieved level of endorsement by this forum for the sponser on the banner above. Because its one of the
faces of the VW community in Australia.
Commercial businesses constantly seek this type of endorsement from non proft groups, because it the best form of advertising.
We certainly would not want to have the Liar & Deshonko Bros as a major sponsor because the forum would loose credibilty with the members due to
bad experiences with the sponsor. Its called a halo effect and it can be bad or good.:beer
[Edited on 21-12-2002 by Grey 57]
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fatboy
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 07:35 PM |
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I'll have to disagree with you on that one Dean.
A company paying for the privlage of advertising spac does not receive an endorsment from the people providing the space.
If my mobile phone shorts out and burns my ear do I get mad at Vodofone or Melbourne Trams because I bought it after seeing the Vodafone Tram.
Anyway this is getting way to serious - we can What if ? Forever.
Got to go The Bills coming on.
Why dont we have any empty glasses ?
:beer
" Captain Picard, why are there no Indians on the Enterprise ? Don't you need IT Support ? "
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Grey 57
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 08:56 PM |
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This isn't mass market mobile phones , this is a special interest area, were many of the people have limited knowledge and quite rightly look to
this forum for guidance.
I'm talking about perception here and perception is reality to most people.
We are lucky that we have an excellent sponsor in Mick Motors.
Mick has a responsibility to the members to provide qualty service and maintain a reputable business that reflects well on the forum . We as AussieVee
Dubbers have a responsibilty to maintain a well run site that does not infringe legal or ethical codes and reflects well on our sponsor. This
partnership is working well.
Imagine if one of the partners in this relationship were to not living up to their responsibilities. Disaster.
If this is about leveraging the finacial side of the forum, then there are better ways.
Non conflicting sponsor packages , clothing ect.
Sorry to waffel on just my 2c worth.
If it aint broke don't fix it:beer
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 10:20 PM |
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Morally, Dean is correct, but legally, Steve is correct.
Let's cover our asses legally - let anybody who wants to sponsor us do so. Comments about those companies can be made by anybody who is willing
to state the reasons for their praise/complaints. 
Kruizin Kol
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Grey 57
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 10:31 PM |
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Kol, not sure I know what legal issue you are talking about here. But what I have been eluding to is that we have an excellent VW specialist sponsor
currently who is happy to continue so why change.
:thumb
Refer to Jims posts about loyalty. Sure we are bound to ensure that we operate within the bounds of the law. But I know of no law that states we have
to open up the sponsorship of this site to all takers.
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Grey 57
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 10:57 PM |
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A defamation suit could only be bought up against an induvidual. The forum should be covered in the terms and conditons of membership.
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fatboy
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 11:11 PM |
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I suspect from the link that has appeared at the top of this page that the decisions have been made.
However....
Sootys' original post was basically "What if our sponser does a bad job and kills someone", Well sorry but this IS a non issue
"What if Mick does a bad job and kills someone", everybody has a bad day.
"people have limited knowledge and quite rightly look to this forum for guidance"
Absolutley, and they take their guidance from the members - I have not seen a single post from Mick saying "Im great use me - I wont kill
you".(although it is quite a catchy jingle"
"perception is reality to most people" unfortunatly I come across this phrase a lot (As I'm sure you do) and I believe it's a
fallacy. Perceptions can be swayed / changed or simply become outdated Facts are what most people eventually accept as reality.
"We are lucky that we have an excellent sponsor in Mick Motors" couldn't agree more - When nobody wanted to know, he put his hand in
his pocket and I've heard great things about him.
"Mick has a responsibility to the members to provide qualty service and maintain a reputable business that reflects well on the forum" - No
sorry I dont agree. I think Mick has a responsibility to himself and his business to ensure that he continues to operate in a profitable way - To
acheive this he needs to provide the kind of service you describe to ALL his customers.
"We as AussieVee Dubbers have a responsibilty to maintain a well run site that does not infringe legal or ethical codes and reflects well on our
sponsor. This partnership is working well. " :thumb couldn't agree more.
"Imagine if one of the partners in this relationship were to not living up to their responsibilities. Disaster." - A bit overdramatic maybe
it depends what those responsibilties are Micks is to provide us with $500 per year ours is to run a legal and ethical forum. Actually Yes ! (My
perception just changed after reviewing the facts ) If mick failed to
meet his $500 (and was the only sponser )then that could result in the forum being closed likewise if we allow illegal material to be posted on this
site. So yes "Disaster".
"If this is about leveraging the finacial side of the forum, then there are better ways. Non conflicting sponsor packages, clothing ect." -
Mostly agree, I do not see that any sponsorship deals could conflict. Mick has been around for many years and been competing with other suppliers
since he opened the doors, he has survived because he is good - simple. I do think that we should open the doors to types of businesses (Paintshops /
upholsterers etc).
If NE1 is still reading them what it comes down to (IMHO) is this.
This forum is superb and is running today in an excellent manner. It offers a service to it's members which is irreplaceable.
It also has a financial liability in that it has operational costs, which are currently met by its sponsor.
Mick has been in business for a long time and is likely to continue to be operational.
However 24 months ago I would have said the same of Exxon and MCI Worldcom.
A risk analysis would show that whilst the likelyhood of MIck Motors folding is Low the consequences would be extremely high.
Therefore the best way to ensure the ongoing availability of aussieveedubbers is to spread the risk and have alternative sources of income.
"Sorry to waffel" Mate thats not a Waffel NOW THIS, THIS is a waffle,
Hope I haven't offended you mate.
I tend to view these things as "Verbal Chess" and enjoy them far more than I should
" Captain Picard, why are there no Indians on the Enterprise ? Don't you need IT Support ? "
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Grey 57
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 11:26 PM |
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Verbal Chess, lets go. And no you haven't offended me. Low blow with the spelling mistakes tho, its been along day.
You are quite right that the forum is exposed from a finacial point of view. However if we do not allow some form of exclusive to sponsors this
situation will only get worse as the value recieved for the money spent will be eroded.
My point is that to attract and retain quality sponsors we need to offer them this at least.
To spread the risk we can tailor sponsorship packages to other non competing parties. I.e. Beetle Juice
Think outside the square.
Sponsor packages could be reviewed every 12 months, with the encumbent having the first refusal on the next sponsorship period. Having them line up
wanting to be a part of this can only be a good thing for the forum.
But also don't forget loyaty. Mick annied up when the rest didn't want to know.
Gotta be worth something.
Cheers
Dean
:beer
Oh and regarding perception vs reality. I have been a sales and marketing proffessional for 20 yrs and can tell you that perception is reality. No
question
[Edited on 21-12-2002 by Grey 57]
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fatboy
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 11:41 PM |
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OK. Ready ?... Lets go.
YES.
Hows that for anticlimax ?
I think we are starting to agree.
I'll drop you a U2U about thinking out of the square (Not the appropriate place here).
As for the spelling -- ????????
You wouldnt belive how paranoid I get about that, everything I do these days has access to a spellchecker so when I have a rant on here I tend to do
it in Word and paste it in. Pathetic eh ?
I keep imagining Kruzin and Bronze (Being teachers) sitting at home and grading my posts. I bet they can't help themselves So any spelling corrections or mistakes are purley the fault of B.Gates.
" Captain Picard, why are there no Indians on the Enterprise ? Don't you need IT Support ? "
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Grey 57
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 11:46 PM |
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Ohh I just got another beer ready for round 3.
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fatboy
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 11:53 PM |
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Learning when to stay down is something I picked uo from my full contact days.
You have given me a dilema though -- Waffles or a beer ?
" Captain Picard, why are there no Indians on the Enterprise ? Don't you need IT Support ? "
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Grey 57
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| posted on December 21st, 2002 at 11:58 PM |
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Beer, it Xmas after all:beer:beer:beer
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fatboy
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| posted on December 22nd, 2002 at 12:01 AM |
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Actually I think its bed.
Have you checked who's logged on ?
Me an you mate, thats it - How sad is that ?
Come to think of it by the time you read this it'll just be you :P
" Captain Picard, why are there no Indians on the Enterprise ? Don't you need IT Support ? "
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Buggy Boyz
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| posted on December 22nd, 2002 at 09:00 PM |
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Ok then
One big issue that we seem to be brushing over here is that the Forum is not an entity ...... so if we do take on more sponsors, well even with the
current one the only assurances that have been given to the sponsors is that from myself personnaly.
Which puts it all at an interesting level, because what ever deals are set up are going to have to have time and effort put into them to maintain. As
soon as we accept money from a sponsor then we are legally abliged to provide the service for which we have been contracted to give.
This is where it all gets a little to hard for my head. I can't see any real way we can take sponsorship as an organisation, only as an
individual. Then comes the other issues of the forum being started by Jim, but belonging to the members and round and round we go.
I have been reading all the posts with interest and it is good to see that forum members care about what is going on.
From where I sit now, with what I have read here and in e-mails my opinion is begining to change towards doing whatever is needed to keep this place
functioning at the required level and keep the way in which this is achieved under my hat. Seems to work quite well so far cause no one out there has
ever asked what the deal with Mick is, what he pays or what has been promissed.
So do you think anyone will really care if a banner add appears on a few of the pages with other vw and non vw related businesses on it ? Yes I have
non related VW businesses interested in sponsorship as well.
SO what sayeth the masses ????
[Edited on 22-12-2002 by Buggy Boyz] |
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last celtic warrior
A.k.a.: Steve Barnes
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| posted on December 23rd, 2002 at 07:26 AM |
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You have my backing Brad. You know what you're doing and you're right, if everyone knew the gorey details, there'd be such a huge cat
fight on here about it either being the best way or the worst way to do things etc...
I think everyone would agree on one point though, and that is that our forum is now so big and popular that we've got people wanting ad space
here. We should all be proud of ouselves.
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mattie182
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| posted on December 23rd, 2002 at 07:53 AM |
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i say let them in, bring on the banners!!!!!
Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
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BenettonVW
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| posted on December 23rd, 2002 at 09:09 PM |
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Sure bring em on. Put down the bottom, as I did with my sisters for a while. They don't get prime location, but they don't pay the prime
prices either..
If we are interested, we the members that is, then we'll look.. |
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silver
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 posted on December 23rd, 2002 at 10:04 PM |
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wasn't me
Hey! How did i get the credit for author of this topic???????????
I didn't start it :cry
Keeping it real !
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OvalGlen
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| posted on December 26th, 2002 at 09:58 PM |
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I too say "bring em on" Especially the non VW ones (or ones that in no way would compete with our No.1 sponser.).
Regards,Glenn>
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on December 26th, 2002 at 10:13 PM |
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Smaller banners at the bottom of the pages sound good. :thumb
Kruizin Kol
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Buggy Boyz
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| posted on December 26th, 2002 at 11:16 PM |
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Thanks for you input
Ok, firstly thanks for all the input and suggestions I got, both on and off line.
I am still working on the exact details for sponsorship but in light of all that transpired over the last week the plan will be different to the
original intent. It will be along the following lines,
Major Sponsor - The forum will have only one of these, this option will be extended to Mick Motors for as long as he wishes to take it.
Banner Sponsor - There will shortly be a banner style add on the top or bottom of each page ( in the header or footer not both ) It will be a static
graphic that will rotate each time you open a page. So if there is 100 sponsors there will be 100 graphics in random rotation. Cost TBC, no
limitations planned on who can have one of these.
Directory sponsor - To become listed in the directory you will need to display an Aussieveedubbers.com banner on your website index page. If you do
not have a website then we will send you an A4 poster to be put in your shop. Once confirmation of its placement has been gained then you will be
added to the directory.
That is pretty much the jist of what is going to happen. Any final comments are welcome.
[Edited on 26-12-2002 by Buggy Boyz] |
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on December 27th, 2002 at 09:57 AM |
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Sounds excellent, well done Brad. :thumb
Kruizin Kol
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mattie182
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| posted on December 27th, 2002 at 12:26 PM |
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Well done!!!!!!!!!!
Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
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silver
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| posted on December 27th, 2002 at 07:21 PM |
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AH! now its sorted i'm glad i started it....
Well if I have to cop the credit as author .....and now that it has all been fixed up I must say what a clever chappy i am to think of it.
HA HA HA :bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce
Keeping it real !
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Karmann_K
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| posted on December 28th, 2002 at 06:00 AM |
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Hi there, you lot probably don't wanna a pommy sticking an oar into your forum, but Volkszone in Britain went through a similar problem.
We have one banner at the top of the forum. Thats it. We used to have an insurance banner and the owners got a small fee paid to them in respect of
who clicked on to it. It was never very many cause most the people that use the forum clicked on once on the banner then never bothered (Especially
when they got their quotes through!  ) Volkszone is a big VW site,
and the forum is just part of it. It is one big infopool of VW info and if anyone has got a question of where is the best place to buy, get help or
what ever, they just ask on the forum. Most people will recommend the company on the banner, others will recomend others. No one gets upset about
it.
Thats the whole point of a fourm.
If you need to advertise to gain money for the running of the forum thats fine. But why ask the users? Everyone is going to differ. Brian was
paying it out of his own pocket. Alot of the regular forum users thought that this was a bit steep, considering that they used it as much as he did.
They came up with the idea of donating a small amount (They didn't set an amount it was up to each user). Ok we don't get web space for our
own interests but that don't bother anyone.
As for advertising the site, word of mouth, stickers on drag race cars and magzines (Forum users daily drives) seems to do the trick. When you get
enough users, word of mouth normally works. Thats how I found out about Volkszone
thats enough of my ramblings. Take a look at http://www.volkszone.co.uk and click
on forums. Its not by anymeans the best, but it works.
Now you can all tell me to piss orf. |
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KOM123
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| posted on December 29th, 2002 at 08:20 PM |
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We wouldn't tell you to piss off...we're too busy watching the cricket
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KOM123
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| posted on January 1st, 2003 at 04:31 PM |
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I am who you think I am 5th day was just a teaser!!
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