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 555bug
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| posted on October 1st, 2004 at 10:42 PM |
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there are issue will alloy engines and copper pipes something to do with electrolysis (dunno much more) you can pick up stainless for like 60~70 a
length is you know where to look and as a benefit there are no problems with perishing the block or piping  |
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Andy42
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| posted on October 2nd, 2004 at 05:49 AM |
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I am going to be using the water to air Subi intercooler on my buggy and was told the original electric water pump for this will not be good enough to
pump water to the front on the car. Well at least not for long. It was recomended I get a davis craig water pump as used for normal radiater cooling
and cut back the voltage to the pump as aparently that is an acceptable thing to do with those pumps. it was also advised to run a boost pump in the
cooling line to help out the radiater as well on the normal engine cooling
.
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Andy42
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| posted on October 2nd, 2004 at 06:19 AM |
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For cooling pipe stainless is by far the best way to go unless you have the money to fork out so you can use hydraulic lines but this will hurt the
bank account compared to the stainless tubing
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on October 2nd, 2004 at 06:26 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Andy42
I am going to be using the water to air Subi intercooler on my buggy and was told the original electric water pump for this will not be good enough to
pump water to the front on the car. Well at least not for long. It was recomended I get a davis craig water pump as used for normal radiater cooling
and cut back the voltage to the pump as aparently that is an acceptable thing to do with those pumps. it was also advised to run a boost pump in the
cooling line to help out the radiater as well on the normal engine cooling
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Its a bugger Andy, depending on who u speak to everything is no good & everything is the best. I've found this with everything that I've bought
for the conversion so far. The water pump that came with the intercooler is a big mutha, maybe it's from a different make of car? I was going to buy
a new one anyway from Subaru, as on the Liberty forums they tend to think they are OK, the bearings die eventually but apparently it costs $8 to fix.
May be a Davies craig aftermarket one is the way to go.
regards
Jak
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Jenny
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| posted on October 2nd, 2004 at 09:53 AM |
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555bug,
I think you would have similar problems with the stainless pipe as you would have with the copper pipe.
The trick is to insulate the dissimilar metals from each other and common earth. Eg use rubber to join them and insulate the long copper /stainless
tubes from the chassis.
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Andy42
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| posted on October 2nd, 2004 at 04:10 PM |
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Yeh ya not wrong with everyone having a different version on what is best but basically we are just going to over engineer everything we can on my
buggy as it is better to have something that works to good rather then not good enough. Of course this can be a bit hard on the pocket. As for alloy
and stainless together they are fine. Obvious things like making sure you run good coolent and not straight water is important but that goes without
saying when it comes to alloy motors or heads.
.
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gayanne
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| posted on October 4th, 2004 at 03:10 PM |
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Hey Jako and all,A standard water pump will work fine running the water from the front to the back.Just remember the longer the distance of water
travel the cooler the water becomes.Proof in the puddingJVLRacing.
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wacked1
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| posted on October 4th, 2004 at 05:52 PM |
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yes standard water pump in my bus works fine
YOU HAVE JUST BEEN DAKED
don't worry it's a VW thing
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humpty
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| posted on October 6th, 2004 at 01:03 AM |
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The standard Subi water pump has worked fine for over 5 years in our RS powered Notch.....No cooling problems in VERY hot WA summers. If anything, it
doesn't get hot enough!!.....Stick with the standard pump....Test it out. Upgrade if you have too...Sofar we have not seen a need! Granted....We
don't do sprints like you guys are, but on the road and at the drags, she works a treat.
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RobvB
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| posted on October 12th, 2004 at 10:45 AM |
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Jak, what does the surgetank setup look like ?
What did you use for a low pressure fuelpump ? Does it have a return line as well ?
Did you create a new pickup in the fuel tank ?
The reason I ask is that I think the pickup is too small for my EJ25, and I'm thinking about installing a surgetank to make sure I have fuel when
autoX'ing.
Thanks,
Rob. |
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on October 12th, 2004 at 10:52 AM |
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Hi Rob,
The fuel tank has a bigger outlet, this then goes into a filter, then into a low pressure electric fuel pump, that fills the 1.5 litre surge pot, it
then proceeds the Holden VL Turbo fuel pump, hard lines go from this to the engine & back again through the tunnel back to the surge pot. Thats
pretty much it.
regards
Jak
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boof2332
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| posted on October 12th, 2004 at 12:49 PM |
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Does the return line go into the swirl pot or back to the main tank. I thought the return line from the pot was an overflow back to the pump seperate
to the return line from the regulator.
I suppose they could meet and go in as one using tpiece...
Am I wrong? This is how mine was going to be done, I saw it on one of the diagrams on the post regarding surge tanks.
Matt
[Edited on 12-10-2004 by boof2332]
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 12th, 2004 at 06:50 PM |
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jak, your surge tank must also have a return line to the main tank.
If you don't you'll have two problems,
1 - the low pressure pump will pressurize the surge tank; and
2 - the HP fuel circulating from the surge tank, thru the hot fuel rail back to the surge tank will get hot (from the fuel rail not the pumping). This
will eventually cause fuel vaporisation in the surge tank. I had this problem, took 30min for the fuel to get hot enough but it happen.
Now my low pressure pump pumps to the surge tank, and then most of it (excess) returns back to the main tank. This keeps the surge and main tank at
the same temp and give the fuel a bigger area to cool through.
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on October 12th, 2004 at 11:05 PM |
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It does, it has 4 outlets, one being back to the fuel tank.
Jak
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 13th, 2004 at 12:42 PM |
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ok. just clarifying for those looking for ideas. Same set-up as mine essentially, but I got an internal pump and you got an external pump.
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pete wood
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| posted on October 13th, 2004 at 06:33 PM |
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Hey Rob,
sorry to highjak the post Jak..
my surge tank is about 600ml and with the VL turbo pump the engine is never short of fuel. Also, as Wes as suggested, the return line to the tank is
the right thing. Mine is an overflow coming out of the top of the tank.
BTW, does anyone have a Bosch catalog/model number for the VL turbo pump?
It'd be really useful so people outside OZ could check if it's readily available overseas. It's probably a comonly used model.
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boof2332
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| posted on October 26th, 2004 at 11:51 PM |
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I have the box for the pump at the house where the car is ..I will look tomorrow.
matt
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Euro_67
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| posted on October 27th, 2004 at 05:43 AM |
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Jak, looking good. I was led to believe the EJ20 was too wide to fit in a beetle rear without huge modifications to the rear innerguards and bumber
brackets, etc. I was looking at a similar conversion into a '76 beetle years ago but was told to look at the EA82 based on physial size. Could you
please post some pics of how you have done this. You have just inspired me to rethink the whole affordable power in a VW theory. I have my wifes 68
semi auto and an angle grinder.......and too much time on my hands !
Thanks,
Wayne.
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Jeza
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| posted on October 27th, 2004 at 06:39 AM |
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Wayne
Check out Jaks links to photos he's put on the samba from here:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=79556
Jak
You mention somewhere about fitting the new fuel line down the tunnel. I'm thinking of doing the same, any tips? How did you secure it?
Cheers
Jeremy
......random gibberish for today.......
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1303Steve
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| posted on October 27th, 2004 at 02:19 PM |
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Hi
Regarding cooling pipe marterial, I used a mixture of copper, stainless & mild steel. When I pulled my car apart the rubber hoses that contacted
copper seemd to have grown onto the pipes where as the stainless & mild steel ones the hoses just slid of nicley.
Speaking of sliding hoses, after the car has run a few times, go around and check the tightness of all the clamps, they will be lose. I found a handy
way to prevent hoses from sliding was to put a dab of weld on the pipe near where clamp will be or drill the pipe and fit some pop rivets.
Steve
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pete wood
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| posted on October 27th, 2004 at 06:44 PM |
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good call steve,
I blew the top hose off on full throttle the second time I had the car warmed up properly. Lucky it was a few houses up the road from home. My mate
said it looked much more serious than just a hose, but we turned it off and let it cool and everything was fine.
Wouldn't have wanted it to happen on the freeway though...
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on October 27th, 2004 at 07:05 PM |
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The really trick way to stop this happening is to find an exhaust shop / body shop that can roll an edge at the end of the pipe (kinda like the barbs
on a hose barb connection).
That way when you have tightened up the hose clamp, it physically cannot come off unless you stretch the clamp !
Might be trickier to do with the thicker lines though...
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seagull
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| posted on October 27th, 2004 at 11:41 PM |
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you get a ring ( machine a ring ) then spot weld this to the pipe , works for me !:beer
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 28th, 2004 at 11:50 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Doug Sweetman
The really trick way to stop this happening is to find an exhaust shop / body shop that can roll an edge at the end of the pipe (kinda like the barbs
on a hose barb connection).
That way when you have tightened up the hose clamp, it physically cannot come off unless you stretch the clamp !
Might be trickier to do with the thicker lines though...
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I just beat a flare on the end of my pipes with a ball pene hammer. If your careful you can make it quite neat looking.
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humpty
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| posted on October 31st, 2004 at 01:09 AM |
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So Jak......
How's it going?
Any more lures to throw out to us meer mortals?
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on October 31st, 2004 at 04:44 AM |
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Water is in, oil is in, muffler system is made, it's all wired up..................................need petrol, ran out of time
yesterday....................don't worry Simon, u will be among the first to know!!!!!!!
regards
Jak
PS even sounds tough just spinning on the starter motor!
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Brad
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| posted on October 31st, 2004 at 10:29 AM |
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So how are your water pipes insulated from you car ? With Wes's V6 he had issues with the stainless pipe touching earth. It seems the radiator water
carries a charge which creates issues where the stainless touches earth. ( issues with alloy parts not stainless ones)
My research has lead me to believe that either alloy or rubber was the best option. Alloy will cool best but rubber will be stronger. When we weighed
it all up including time and ease of fit we went with gates hydraulic hose, no bends, easy to run and you can fasten it to anything without issue.
Will be interested to see how yours holds up if it is touching earth.
What plans have you got with your Speed sensor ?
Cheers and keep up the good work.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 31st, 2004 at 11:29 AM |
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I mentioned that in the 10+page EJ20 post
| Quote: | Stainless steel
itself is a noble metal, as it it doesn't like to corrode. That simply makes it a fantastic cathode. It therefore tries to use other metals as an
anode. This is galvanic corrosion.
There is a thing called a galvanic series. surf the net and you will find it.
The further two metals are apart in the series, the worse they will react with each other in the presence of an electrolite. Stainless steel and
aluminium are further apart than steel and aluminium.
So stainless steel radiator pipes will try to corrode your aluminium engine. This will happen if your aluminium engine and stainless pipes have a
common earth, and your not using the most expensive radiator fluid you can buy.
I have rubber mounted my stainless radiator pipes from touching anything but the rubber radiator hoses (they don't touch the chassis or body). This
should keep the galvanic circuit open and stop the corrosion.
When my last radiator died, it was corroded from salt water on the outside so that was the obvious cause of death. But I did wonder if the stainless
pipes were earthing somewhere and adding to the problem, as stainless will also try to corrode normal steel (my radiator) via galvanic corrosion.
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Theoretically if your radiator fluid is good enough it won't matter, but it's probably best not to test how good your fluid is.
here is the galvanic series;
http://www.corrprev.org.au/Galvanic.htm
The further two metals are apart, the worse they are together. The more negative material becomes the anode, and is corroded. The anode material tries
to migrate onto the cathode.
I'm sure we all know aluminium head / cast iron block cars have problems with corrosion with poor quality coolant. Well that gives the following;
aluminium: -0.76 to -1.00
steel / cast iron: -0.60 to -0.72
So that gives a potential range of -0.04 to -0.4 trying to make them corrode.
Now we look at aluminium and stainless steel (passivated 316 pipes are fancy, but bad);
aluminium: -0.76 to -1.00
316 SS passive: 0.00 to -0.10
So that gives a potential range of -0.66 to -1.00 trying to make them corrode. Much much worse than the traditional cast iron block alloy head
engines.
So you can see why new car manufacturers use plastic and rubber pipes.
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seagull
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| posted on October 31st, 2004 at 11:17 PM |
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Wes your a champ ,I buy you a :beer one day good read , seagull
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on November 3rd, 2004 at 04:52 AM |
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IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!
Started it up last night, ran first key turn, sounds amazing!
I'll take it for a drive today.
regards
Jak
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