| [ Total Views: 4505 | Total Replies: 189 | Thread Id: 71616 ] |
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 .. 7 |
|
|
 HotRodMatt
Wolfsburg Elder
If it's old or rare - cut it!
Posts: 3616
Threads: 361
Registered: September 3rd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: West of Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 09:20 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH"The American Heritage Dictionary defines a Christian as ...
|
Don't worry about definitions. The early members of the cult of Christ still called themselves Jews. And the biggest so-called Apostle, a Roman
mad-man that the rest of them - who actually knew the Essene Jew called Jesus - shunned is responsible for most of the ravings that make up what is
accepted as Christian teaching.
|
|
|
HotRodMatt
Wolfsburg Elder
If it's old or rare - cut it!
Posts: 3616
Threads: 361
Registered: September 3rd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: West of Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 09:22 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
...or Egyptian teaching (they had slaves remember)
|
And Christian ministers have selective memories...
Abraham - the godly and righteous - so godly and righteous he owned 318 slaves! [genesis 14:14]
|
|
|
Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 10:09 AM |
|
|
Australia gave more aid to the Tsunami victims, particularly in Indonesia, than any other country. Our military did most of the physical work with
transport, airlifts, evacuation, sandbagging, food drops etc. Many people donated to relief funds, including me. The religion of them and me (or not)
didn't matter - it was helping fellow humans in distress. Of course I don't remember Indonesia coming to our aid when Cyclone Tracy demolished
Darwin in 1974.
Pete can you explain why poverty would not exist today if we all followed Jesus's teachings? We have a world population today of 7 billion and
growing, arable land limited and shrinking, diminsihing fresh water, bulk power sources (fossil fuels) running out and starvation and disease still
rife in many parts of the world. What did Jesus say that would fix this?
I agree, no one can say with any authority that their beliefs are the 'truth'. It's a matter of personal faith. In an ideal world we would all have
our own beliefs and live happily with them and each other, but sadly that isn't the case. Problems occur when a group with belief 'A' try to
subjugate a group with belief 'B', which is the whole history of religious war. I won't criticise anyone else's faith, but I can't see how one
supernatural belief is any more or less valid than another. I prefer to stick with 'truths' that can be demonstrated via the scientific method -
such as F=ma, CH4 + 2O2 = CO2 + 2H2O + energy, pi is irrational, the Sun is 1,392,000 km in diameter, light travels at 300,000 km/sec, the earth is
4.6 billion years old, and so on and so on.
Then you get splinter groups - those with belief A break into belief A1 and A2, and then A1a and A1b etc etc). What do Shiite and Sunni moslems have
against one another, for example? It even happens with car clubs - Club Veedub Sydney began originally as a breakaway from the then NSW VW Club, as
one group had different beliefs from another (purely VWs or all-marques in the club), and boy was there a 'war' for a few years. Today it has
settled down and the NSW VW Club was merged into Club VW earlier this year. But in addition, over the last ten years at least two other groups of Club
VW members decided to leave and start their own clubs - which they are entitled to do. Some of them are still going; some have folded and come back.
That's life!
Yes Pete I'm enjoying the discussion too. VW enthusiasts must be very special people - not like those Holden fans !! (just kidding)
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 10:55 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by HotRodMatt
| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
...or Egyptian teaching (they had slaves remember)
|
And Christian ministers have selective memories...
Abraham - the godly and righteous - so godly and righteous he owned 318 slaves! [genesis 14:14]
|
And so did Roman Christians during the first few centuries. Please don't oversimplify things by plugging 21st century morality into Ancient times.
There was big differences between Roman, Ancient near eastern and Modern (15-18th century) slavery.
Capitalism has created slaves out of many 3rd world workers.
|
|
|
HotRodMatt
Wolfsburg Elder
If it's old or rare - cut it!
Posts: 3616
Threads: 361
Registered: September 3rd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: West of Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 11:02 AM |
|
|
That's exactly what I expected, glad you didn't let me down Pete.
You bring up the Egyptians with distain for their adoption of slavery but when the daddy of all the peoples of the book (including you christians) is
brought up you say "nah that isn't valid".
You opened the gate, you addressed ancient morality in terms of today. But I do it and it's not fair.
You can't discuss or reason anything with the "faithful". Their arrogance is embedded and they can never ever be wrong. After all, god is on their
side.
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 11:07 AM |
|
|
Phil, most world poverty has come from capitalism, government corruption and war. Irish potato famine is a good example. There were more than enough
potatoes in Ireland to feed the Irish, the problem is that they were exported overseas by rich lander owners.
Jesus taught people to love their neighbours and pray for their enemies. If everyone did that no one starve or want for a job. If it sounds idealistic
it's because most people left it just as an idea.
My comment about Australia's generosity is where does that concept come from? It's a cultural pillar, but where did it come from?
From memory, After Mohammad died his followers split. Sunnis were formed by Mohammads Daughters (he only had daughters). Shiites were formed by his
followers.
Splinter groups can be troublesome, but sometimes it's the best way to deal with differences peacefully. It's when they start saying, "we are the
only real _____s" that things get nasty.
I like science, I like the things it has provided. The problem is, it can only observe things and describe how they happen. I want to know WHY they
happen. Also, there are a heap of things that science can't prove, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Like 'humour' for instance. Try and
prove that. 
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 11:11 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by HotRodMatt
That's exactly what I expected, glad you didn't let me down Pete.
You bring up the Egyptians with distain for their adoption of slavery but when the daddy of all the peoples of the book (including you christians) is
brought up you say "nah that isn't valid".
You opened the gate, you addressed ancient morality in terms of today. But I do it and it's not fair.
|
I repent Matt. You're right. 
I will say this though. The bible never said Abraham was perfect. Just that he had faith in God.
|
|
|
StenGuns
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2147
Threads: 236
Registered: March 1st, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 11:38 AM |
|
|
Hang in there Pete.. Total respect to you. And that doesn't mean I agree, just that I respect your values and your faith.. I am sure that the values
you have are implicit in most decent people, regardless of their faith.
It is easier to knock something down rather than try and keep it standing..
|
|
|
Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 12:05 PM |
|
|
My understanding was that the potato famine was caused by the fungal disease Phytophthora Infestans, or 'late blight', which was native to Mexico.
It apparently reached Europe on a shipment of seed potatoes in 1845 and rapidly wiped out the Irish potato crop for five years, causing a million
people to starve to death and millions more to emigrate to the USA. Modern science can control the blight (with some difficulty, apparently), but the
technology didn't exist to do anything about it in 1845. I disagree that there were still 'more than enough potatoes to feed the Irish'. Food had
to be imported INTO Ireland to stop people starving. Any political intrigue concerning providing (or not providing) food relief at the time is a
separate issue.
I'm afraid there's just too many people in the world, and not enough resources, to feed everyone to our 21st century western standards, no matter
how much we might love one another and pray. It's a lovely vision, and perhaps achieveable in 30 AD if everyone had played along, but not today. Just
imagine the resources that 1,200 million Chinese and 1,100 million Indians would consume to give them the same standard of living as 21 million
Australians ! Sadly, famine somewhere is inevitable and unavoidable, and will only increase in years to come. I've read of scenarios where the next
war will be fought over water, not oil.
Science is the best tool - really the only tool - we have to explain HOW things work. Importantly, science doesn't only observe and describe, but it
also has the unique property to accurately predict. Science can answer many WHY questions, depending on the framing of the question. Why does the sun
rise, why is the sky blue, why does the moon wobble, why do more fish live in cold oceans than warm? Cause and effect is the backbone of many
sciences. There is no shame in saying "I don't know" if your knowledge is incomplete, and science tries to make our knowledge a little less
incomplete every day.
But you can play the 7-year old game and just keep asking 'WHY' ad infinitum (my daughter is getting good at it). Ultimately, there may not be any
ultimate answer to WHY - it just is.
I'm not sure what you mean by science 'proving humour exists' - in what sense? If you can observe it, measure it, test it, repeat it, then it
passes the scientific test. It's easy to do all of that for humour. I find plenty of evidence for it every time I watch a tape of Dave Allen, or
Monty Python, or Fawlty Towers, or even Graham Kennedy on Blankety Blanks. I'm still looking for evidence of humour in US TV shows (apart from Tom
and Jerry, and the Roadrunner cartoons), but I hope to find some one day.
|
|
|
Mick058
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1580
Threads: 109
Registered: January 29th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 12:13 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by HotRodMatt
That's exactly what I expected, glad you didn't let me down Pete.
You bring up the Egyptians with distain for their adoption of slavery but when the daddy of all the peoples of the book (including you christians) is
brought up you say "nah that isn't valid".
You opened the gate, you addressed ancient morality in terms of today. But I do it and it's not fair.
You can't discuss or reason anything with the "faithful". Their arrogance is embedded and they can never ever be wrong. After all, god is on their
side.
|
The only true perfect man was Jesus - thats kinda the point - Moses was a whinger, Paul (saul) was a Christian hater, Noah was a drunkard at times,
King David though he had a heart for God, slept with a another mans wife and got her pregnant and organised the killing of her husband.
Christians aren't perfect, we're as sinful as the rest. Faith through Jesus and his redemption of our sins is how we are saved (in my opininon  ) Our response because of that is to attempt to live as close to
Christs example as we can. IT's a matter of attitude and heart - not just outward perfection.
If you read the bible closely, it would be hard to believe that someone could of made it up...(there is more to why i believe then that though)
i dont particularly like the word religion, and i wouldn't call myself religious - just faithful in the teachings of Jesus. When people twist the
bible for their own causes, thats why these wars and so on happen - in my view its still a result of someones greed or sin - religion just becomes the
scapegoat.
|
|
|
MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
Bishop of Volkswagenism
Hairy Gutted Sloth
Posts: 3389
Threads: 29
Registered: September 6th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: TownsvilleTropical North QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Grow a brain...walls don't hit back...
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 12:23 PM |
|
|
So put up your hands those people who still believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny....
tssnq.com.au
|
|
|
Mick058
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1580
Threads: 109
Registered: January 29th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 12:35 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
So put up your hands those people who still believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny....
|
Someone out there probably would! You should google it.
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 12:54 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
So put up your hands those people who still believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny....
|
you'd be surprised actually. if you offer to debunk either myth publically lots of normally easy-going people get very up in arms. I saw this for
myself last Christmas.
|
|
|
MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
Bishop of Volkswagenism
Hairy Gutted Sloth
Posts: 3389
Threads: 29
Registered: September 6th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: TownsvilleTropical North QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Grow a brain...walls don't hit back...
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 02:22 PM |
|
|
Just as you get very "up in arms" when people try to debunk the myth you "believe" in. I think any nutcase will believe what you want them to
believe. In the end everyone has some type of release in life,some people i suppose need to follow blindly what others presume while others can rely
on factual information,if they are actually interested in finding "answers" Each to their own. Others just need to add more Viagra to their weetbix
and harden the &^%k up.
tssnq.com.au
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 02:52 PM |
|
|
you've just shown me a side of your breakfast routine I didn't want to see....
|
|
|
MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
Bishop of Volkswagenism
Hairy Gutted Sloth
Posts: 3389
Threads: 29
Registered: September 6th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: TownsvilleTropical North QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Grow a brain...walls don't hit back...
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 03:38 PM |
|
|
Why ??? You scared???
tssnq.com.au
|
|
|
Mick058
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1580
Threads: 109
Registered: January 29th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 03:49 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
Just as you get very "up in arms" when people try to debunk the myth you "believe" in. I think any nutcase will believe what you want them to
believe. In the end everyone has some type of release in life,some people i suppose need to follow blindly what others presume while others can rely
on factual information,if they are actually interested in finding "answers" Each to their own. Others just need to add more Viagra to their weetbix
and harden the &^%k up.
|
i can't agree with your 'nutcase' comment. Alot of intelligent, stable men and women i know are strong Christians (faith kind of brings a purpose
to life right???). Pretty big comment to call Christian believers or any believers nutcases.
I wouldn't say people follow their respective beliefs blindly either, at least not all of them - i know i questioned lots of things and still do in
order to better understand.
Some of your comments have been fair, but this ones a little too general. Same as the view point of all 'Christians are weak' and can't handle any
of life's situations - too much Ned Flanders in that one
|
|
|
MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
Bishop of Volkswagenism
Hairy Gutted Sloth
Posts: 3389
Threads: 29
Registered: September 6th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: TownsvilleTropical North QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Grow a brain...walls don't hit back...
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 03:59 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Mick058
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
Just as you get very "up in arms" when people try to debunk the myth you "believe" in. I think any nutcase will believe what you want them to
believe. In the end everyone has some type of release in life,some people i suppose need to follow blindly what others presume while others can rely
on factual information,if they are actually interested in finding "answers" Each to their own. Others just need to add more Viagra to their weetbix
and harden the &^%k up.
|
i can't agree with your 'nutcase' comment. Alot of intelligent, stable men and women i know are strong Christians (faith kind of brings a purpose
to life right???). Pretty big comment to call Christian believers or any believers nutcases.
I wouldn't say people follow their respective beliefs blindly either, at least not all of them - i know i questioned lots of things and still do in
order to better understand.
Some of your comments have been fair, but this ones a little too general. Same as the view point of all 'Christians are weak' and can't handle any
of life's situations - too much Ned Flanders in that one
|
Your whole post contradicts itself...read it slowly. As for Ned Flanders.......I think Mr. H. J. Simpson sums it all up nicely,especially reguarding
'ol Ned....
tssnq.com.au
|
|
|
Mick058
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1580
Threads: 109
Registered: January 29th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 04:07 PM |
|
|
How so? Maybe im missing something...
Believing in God is part faith (as he cannot be seen) and part reason (you working out why you believe) - maybe what i call 'reason' you call
'nutty'.
|
|
|
StenGuns
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2147
Threads: 236
Registered: March 1st, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 05:06 PM |
|
|
A lot of people with Christian beliefs (now and through history) have devoted their lives to helping those less fortunate.. I wonder if they needed to
toughen the fuck up when they were confronted with rape, massacre, leprosy, genocide, cholera, typhoid, battle wounds, intense heat and cold, flies,
wild animals etc etc.. Some of the strongest people I know are the smallest in physical stature.. And some of the weakest are the largest..
|
|
|
Adsman
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 393
Threads: 21
Registered: January 23rd, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Townsville
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 05:46 PM |
|
|
Seriously it sounds like some people need to get a reality check
What my garage isn't messy........Well chaos is a form of order isn't it?
|
|
|
newoldmanx
A.k.a.: Billy
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 468
Threads: 52
Registered: August 6th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: fiji islands/sunny coast QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: stylin
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 06:05 PM |
|
|
religion is a fantastic idea its a pity no-one ever tried it
brainwashing is evident when someone living 2000 years after another can profess that he was the only perfect man mick i could ask how you came to
know this but i already have a fair idea
on the point of slavery i think one of the "commandments" instructs not to make your servants work on the sabbath
"My comment about Australia's generosity is where does that concept come from? It's a cultural pillar, but where did it come from?"
actually modern Australia was founded on theft and slavery (unless you still believe that there was not enough room in the jails in england crap)
do you mean the stolen land we call Australia that's stolen resources are bankrolling its prosperity, that cultural pillar or the Australia that is
one of three countries that has made no commitment while 19 of 22 OECD donor countries have committed to increasing or maintaining aid at a level of
0.7% of GNI.
5 of 22 countries already give 0.7% of GNI or more
my faith in science weened when as a kid i was told that if i only eat half my chocolate bar each time it would last forever
its just a car for f*%k sake
|
|
|
newoldmanx
A.k.a.: Billy
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 468
Threads: 52
Registered: August 6th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: fiji islands/sunny coast QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: stylin
|
| posted on September 26th, 2008 at 06:14 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by StenGuns
A lot of people with Christian beliefs (now and through history) have devoted their lives to helping those less fortunate.. I wonder if they needed to
toughen the fuck up when they were confronted with rape, massacre, leprosy, genocide, cholera, typhoid, battle wounds, intense heat and cold, flies,
wild animals etc etc.. Some of the strongest people I know are the smallest in physical stature.. And some of the weakest are the largest..
|
if it were ONLY those with christian beliefs that devoted there lives yada yada yada you would have a viable point but since that is clearly not the
case and the fact that a lot of ppl with christian beliefs have (now and through history) raped pillaged and plundered further dilutes your statement
all it implies is that even some christians posess spontanious goodness
there is a relatively new "guru" on the block Ekhart Tolle who imo disseminates information about understanding your life in an unusually
uncomplicated manner have a listen here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgO4UDrwm8&feature=user
its just a car for f*%k sake
|
|
|
MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
Bishop of Volkswagenism
Hairy Gutted Sloth
Posts: 3389
Threads: 29
Registered: September 6th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: TownsvilleTropical North QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Grow a brain...walls don't hit back...
|
| posted on September 27th, 2008 at 12:39 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Mick058
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
Just as you get very "up in arms" when people try to debunk the myth you "believe" in. I think any nutcase will believe what you want them to
believe. In the end everyone has some type of release in life,some people i suppose need to follow blindly what others presume while others can rely
on factual information,if they are actually interested in finding "answers" Each to their own. Others just need to add more Viagra to their weetbix
and harden the &^%k up.
|
i can't agree with your 'nutcase' comment. Alot of intelligent, stable men and women i know are strong Christians (faith kind of brings a purpose
to life right???). Pretty big comment to call Christian believers or any believers nutcases.
I wouldn't say people follow their respective beliefs blindly either, at least not all of them - i know i questioned lots of things and still do in
order to better understand.
Some of your comments have been fair, but this ones a little too general. Same as the view point of all 'Christians are weak' and can't handle any
of life's situations - too much Ned Flanders in that one
|
Your whole post contradicts itself...read it slowly. As for Ned Flanders.......I think Mr. H. J. Simpson sums it all up nicely,especially reguarding
'ol Ned....
|
Hmmm......OK....R E A D I T S L O W L Y .......Where did I actually mention that Christians were nutcases????? That was how YOU interpreted what I
wrote...which is why the Bible thing makes me laugh....the way people "interpret" what supposedly was written is a joke.The same line can have
several contrastingly different interpretations,depending on what you want it to mean,yet people still only believe what they want to,or what they
think they should. Hardly a sound basis in which to invest your "faith" as you put it.
In saying that,FAITH doesn't bring a purpose to life...sex does.To allow any species to evolve/exist you need to do it!!! All animals are
instinctually programmed to copulate/breed.Thats what "life" is about. Ensuring the survival of a species.
tssnq.com.au
|
|
|
Matt Ryan
A.k.a.: Matt Ryan
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 890
Threads: 107
Registered: January 6th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Port Macquarie NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Fweemin
|
| posted on September 27th, 2008 at 01:34 PM |
|
|
Why does there have to be a meaning to life???
Very few people can accept that life "just is", and get on with it.
Yet the people who search for meaning via some higher power can accept that their god "just is" and call it faith???
Regards,
Matt.
(I'm pink therefore I'm spam)
|
|
|
Mick058
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1580
Threads: 109
Registered: January 29th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 29th, 2008 at 08:17 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Mick058
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
Just as you get very "up in arms" when people try to debunk the myth you "believe" in. I think any nutcase will believe what you want them to
believe. In the end everyone has some type of release in life,some people i suppose need to follow blindly what others presume while others can rely
on factual information,if they are actually interested in finding "answers" Each to their own. Others just need to add more Viagra to their weetbix
and harden the &^%k up.
|
i can't agree with your 'nutcase' comment. Alot of intelligent, stable men and women i know are strong Christians (faith kind of brings a purpose
to life right???). Pretty big comment to call Christian believers or any believers nutcases.
I wouldn't say people follow their respective beliefs blindly either, at least not all of them - i know i questioned lots of things and still do in
order to better understand.
Some of your comments have been fair, but this ones a little too general. Same as the view point of all 'Christians are weak' and can't handle any
of life's situations - too much Ned Flanders in that one
|
Your whole post contradicts itself...read it slowly. As for Ned Flanders.......I think Mr. H. J. Simpson sums it all up nicely,especially reguarding
'ol Ned....
|
Hmmm......OK....R E A D I T S L O W L Y .......Where did I actually mention that Christians were nutcases????? That was how YOU interpreted what I
wrote...which is why the Bible thing makes me laugh....the way people "interpret" what supposedly was written is a joke.The same line can have
several contrastingly different interpretations,depending on what you want it to mean,yet people still only believe what they want to,or what they
think they should. Hardly a sound basis in which to invest your "faith" as you put it.
In saying that,FAITH doesn't bring a purpose to life...sex does.To allow any species to evolve/exist you need to do it!!! All animals are
instinctually programmed to copulate/breed.Thats what "life" is about. Ensuring the survival of a species.
|
I agree Mick, it can be hard to interpret what someone means, and the tone in which they say it - especially through written words.
I don't know you and therefore would have little knowledge on how to interpret what you say because i don't know your character etc.
The bible is a big book and is a source itself as to how to interpret it - you let scripture interpret scripture, use the bits that are clear to
understand the bits which are slightly harder to understand. SO God reveals who he is through the bible and thats how you know him.
Gods first instruction was to be fruitful and increase in number and subdue the earth - sex, within the marrige context, was very much a part of Gods
plan and purpose.
Again, this is my belief - im just sharing.
|
|
|
Mick058
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1580
Threads: 109
Registered: January 29th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 29th, 2008 at 08:20 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by newoldmanx
religion is a fantastic idea its a pity no-one ever tried it
brainwashing is evident when someone living 2000 years after another can profess that he was the only perfect man mick i could ask how you came to
know this but i already have a fair idea
on the point of slavery i think one of the "commandments" instructs not to make your servants work on the sabbath
"My comment about Australia's generosity is where does that concept come from? It's a cultural pillar, but where did it come from?"
actually modern Australia was founded on theft and slavery (unless you still believe that there was not enough room in the jails in england crap)
do you mean the stolen land we call Australia that's stolen resources are bankrolling its prosperity, that cultural pillar or the Australia that is
one of three countries that has made no commitment while 19 of 22 OECD donor countries have committed to increasing or maintaining aid at a level of
0.7% of GNI.
5 of 22 countries already give 0.7% of GNI or more
my faith in science weened when as a kid i was told that if i only eat half my chocolate bar each time it would last forever
|
I'd be interested to hear how you think it is i came to believe? (im not sure if i already hinted to it or not)
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
Matt Ryan
A.k.a.: Matt Ryan
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 890
Threads: 107
Registered: January 6th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Port Macquarie NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Fweemin
|
| posted on September 29th, 2008 at 01:40 PM |
|
|
Found this on a BBC site. Interesting reading
[size=6]The Evolutionary Advantages of Faith[/size]
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him.
- Voltaire
At some point in mankind's distant past, religious faith arose from where there was none. The concepts of spirituality and religion are a
biologically-based product of evolution; adaptations that gave the possessors of this trait a distinct survival advantage: Faith.
Neurobiologists think they have found regions of the brain that are responsible for all spiritual and religious experiences, naming the new field that
studies these areas 'neurotheology'. Since the only way that something as bizarre and universal as the human propensity to have faith could have
arisen is if it conferred a survival advantage, this entry looks at what these advantages are, and whether indeed they exist.
[size=5]Faith in the Brain[/size]
It is no coincidence that every culture and all types of people of the world have some concept of a higher power. They all have their own form of the
supernatural, spirituality or religion all of which are experienced through the structure of the brains of human beings.
Spiritual experiences are so consistent across cultures, across time, and across faiths that it suggests a common core that is likely a reflection
of structures and processes in the human brain.
– David Wulff, Wheaton College
It is clear from all the fascinating research that neurobiologists have undertaken that religiosity can be defined in terms of, and observed in, the
hard wiring of the human brain. The structures of the brain, such as the temporal and parietal lobes, are a product of evolution. A complex and
precise network of genes strictly defines the development and layout of the brain, including the structures that are responsible for the spiritual
experiences described above. In biology, structure is always directly related to function. All genes are, or were, under the direct influence of
evolution; therefore the ability to have powerful religious experiences has evolved. The pertinent questions are not 'if' we evolved these
remarkable capabilities, but 'why?' and 'how?'
[size=5]The Survival Advantages of Faith[/size]
The possessors of religious faith have a distinct survival advantage. Somewhere along mankind's evolutionary history the brain developed the ability
to dissociate certain areas of itself from the rest, depriving them of sensory input, altering an individual's perception of themselves and the world
around them. Electrical crackling in the temporal lobes produces vivid, ultra-real visions and voices, apparently from God. It is no surprise that
humans, as social animals, organised and gathered to experience these visions together. From these deep, powerful visions and otherworldly
experiences, the religions and supernatural beliefs of the world arose.
It is significant that so many people have powerful spiritual experiences sometime in their lives1 (people in their 40s and 50s are most likely to
have them), and it is not detrimental to their lives. It is, in fact, beneficial. Instead of these traits being something that was excised out of the
population, or kept at bay by natural selection, it became a survival advantage.
In the 1950s Viktor Frankl used to give talks to American audiences about his experiences in the concentration camps2. He would open his talks by
thanking his audience for coming to hear him. They took this to be a speaker's standard courteous introduction. He then said 'I want to thank you
for saving my life...'
One of the things which had sustained Frankl for two and-a-half years in the concentration camps was his belief that he could and would testify to
what had happened in them. He imagined talking to the audiences who came to hear him speak a decade later. They - or rather his belief in them - had
saved his life.
Frankl's experience is eloquent, but there are countless records of individuals going through extreme experiences where survival was marginal, who
say that it was their faith or their vision of the future that sustained them. One Indian Army officer who was a prisoner of war of the Japanese
attributed his survival to having his fortune told in the 1930s by an Indian in a bazaar. The fortune-teller said that he would die when he was 80. He
did in fact die 6 weeks before his 80th birthday, some 50 years after the surrender of the Japanese.
From these two examples we might conclude that it is not the believer's deity that saves them, but their faith. Jesus Christ ascribed his miracles to
the belief of those healed: 'He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering."'3
This anecdotal evidence is substantiated by the numerous studies which have observed and correlated a link between religiosity and spirituality
with:
* Longer life spans4
* Evolution of a pool of wisdom and experience in the form of grandparents
* Rates of survival during the holocaust of faithful against non-faithful
* Faster recovery from surgery5; faith-healing is an advantage
* Reduced risk of disease
[size=5]The Survival Advantages of a Shared Faith[/size]
We have already seen that while faith can denote religious faith, there are many other kinds of faith. There is belief in a cause, faith in an
individual leader and belief in one's country. All of these have similar mechanisms and similar outcomes, so the following examples have been drawn
from political and other arenas.
Shared faith in a cause creates powerful and cohesive groups. The armed forces call this Esprit de Corps. George W Bush is, at the time of writing,
using the patriotism of the American people to push through his military policies. It is a powerful force.
The group of scientists, pilots and engineers who put man on the moon were inspired by Kennedy's vision. Their imaginations were grabbed, and their
dedication was far greater as a result. Gandhi inspired half a billion people in British India and ended British colonialism. Hitler generated the
Third Reich by creating a national belief in a national destiny while Chamberlain was faffing around with an umbrella.
The shared faith that people had in these leaders and their visions inspired them to go above and beyond the call of duty, and to achieve far more in
a focused direction than they would or could have achieved otherwise.
A shared faith confers a clear performance and survival advantage on a group, making it more than sum of its parts.
[size=5]Spirituality and Natural Selection[/size]
Early man had no modern medicine and daily life was a struggle for survival. To have a way to manage and deal with a crisis and to boost your chances
of survival after injury or illness was a massively useful trait. The only purpose of genes is to replicate themselves - they are entirely selfish
entities. Natural selection preserved the quirk in brain structure, by preserving the genes responsible for the trait that promoted spirituality;
those with this trait more effectively survived and flourished than those who lacked it. This trait was so successful that it spread throughout the
population of early man (or perhaps even mankind’s predecessors) even before the great diaspora, when Homo Sapiens spread out and populated the
globe.
[size=5]Conclusion[/size]
Religious faith is a phenomenon derived from biological processes that occur in the brain. Developmental networks of genes control every aspect of the
brain's anatomy, including the areas of the brain that are responsible for deep and powerful religious and spiritual experiences. All genes are, or
were, under the influence of evolution; therefore, the ability to have such experiences is an evolved trait. This trait, which spawned the religions,
spirituality and supernatural beliefs of all human cultures all over the world, confers a definite survival advantage. Study after study confirms that
people who consider themselves religious have, amongst other things, a far greater recovery rate from major surgery, and longer life spans. This would
have been especially beneficial to early (perhaps pre-civilisation) man, whose struggle for survival and lack of medicine would mean that any
possessor of such abilities would be at an advantage. Natural selection preserved this trait and it spread throughout the population.
1 Gallup polls in the 1990s found that 53% of Americans have had 'a moment of religious awakening and insight'
2 Frankl's book 'Man's Search for Meaning' is about his internal and external experiences in the camps.
3 Mark 5:34
4 Seventh Day Adventist males live an average of eight years longer than adherents of other faiths
5 The faithful are three times more likely to survive major heart surgery, even after other social factors have been controlled.
Regards,
Matt.
|
|
|
newoldmanx
A.k.a.: Billy
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 468
Threads: 52
Registered: August 6th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: fiji islands/sunny coast QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: stylin
|
| posted on September 29th, 2008 at 06:34 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Mick058
| Quote: | Originally
posted by newoldmanx
religion is a fantastic idea its a pity no-one ever tried it
brainwashing is evident when someone living 2000 years after another can profess that he was the only perfect man mick i could ask how you came to
know this but i already have a fair idea
on the point of slavery i think one of the "commandments" instructs not to make your servants work on the sabbath
"My comment about Australia's generosity is where does that concept come from? It's a cultural pillar, but where did it come from?"
actually modern Australia was founded on theft and slavery (unless you still believe that there was not enough room in the jails in england crap)
do you mean the stolen land we call Australia that's stolen resources are bankrolling its prosperity, that cultural pillar or the Australia that is
one of three countries that has made no commitment while 19 of 22 OECD donor countries have committed to increasing or maintaining aid at a level of
0.7% of GNI.
5 of 22 countries already give 0.7% of GNI or more
my faith in science weened when as a kid i was told that if i only eat half my chocolate bar each time it would last forever
|
I'd be interested to hear how you think it is i came to believe? (i"m not sure if i already hinted to it or not)
|
I"m unsure of how you came to "believe" however id hazard a guess that your statement that jesus was "the ONLY perfect man" is not through first
hand experience and more likely something you have been told over and over never questioning what it means to be "perfect" and then regurjitating
it yourself
"perfect" is a relative term could you state that jesus never soiled a nappy, cried for his mothers milk as a baby for instance.
Could you enlighten me on what you mean by "perfect man" here in Fiji that could simply mean he could play at any position on the rugby field
its just a car for f*%k sake
|
|
|
Mick058
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1580
Threads: 109
Registered: January 29th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 30th, 2008 at 12:32 PM |
|
|
Sure, Perfect man is that Jesus never sinned, always obeyed and trusted his heavenly father and did not break the law. This is all evident in the
bible.
My statement comes through understanding the bible. I make that judgment (my understanding of the bible) for myself through reading and studying it.
Are there any Fijian Churches near you? The way they sing in their churches is something i'd love to see and experience.
|
|
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 .. 7 |
