| [ Total Views: 17924 | Total Replies: 101 | Thread Id: 96202 ] |
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 coletrickle
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| posted on April 7th, 2012 at 08:22 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
The Python will flow better than the Vintage speed due to the path of the piping plus the vintage sticks 1&2 and 3&4 together and this isn't
great for exhaust design and allowing the cylinders to be scavenged properly.
Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a
companies back pocket?
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As i posted eairler my VS 44mm comp on my 2332 is great its ground clearance fit etc is exellent.Now onto the performance side as a
daily driven streetcar(I only have this car).Its faster by 1/10th than the old merged fatboy.Now there are many exhausts out there its your choice but
ive never seen the back of a bug with a CSP or any other brand of exhaust as my car seems to be faster.I don't have a lot of money to spend so i tend
to be selective as to where i spend my money,Berg linkage and shifter,Buttler Gearbox,Vintage Speed,Centerline,The rest is second hand stuff put
together properly by Matt B!Anyone for a race I'm good to go?Or conversley lets have another kind of race,I challenge any CSP PYTHON exhaust of
simular hide away exhaust to a valve adjusting race. Any takers?
P.S.for some strange reason my valves don't seem to go out of adjustment must be cause I don't rev it
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on April 7th, 2012 at 08:52 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by waltermitty
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a
companies back pocket?
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WRONG. The freight cost and tariff ( if applicable which often seems very arbitrary )is added to the item cost and if the total is over $1000 then
you will pay GST on the full amount.
It still may well be worthwhile buying overseas but beware you will find shipping is usually expensive.
Mitchell
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Nah, sorry Mitchell but that's not right... and if some freight company has been telling you that, THEY'RE wrong. I've had this happen in the past,
and actually got a complete refund on the amount they'd made me pay... duty, GST, the whole deal as my goods were valued at $970 which is obviously
under $1000 even tho there was $200 odd on top for shipping.
The way it works if your goods are valued less than $1000 then GST and duty/tariffs are not payable.
BUT if worth more than $1000 then you have to pay duty/tariff based on what the goods are, then pay GST on the sum of value PLUS the duty/tariff PLUS
the shipping costs.
Full info is at http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page5549.asp#Duty Admittedly a bit difficult to understand cos it's written in fluent
government'ese...
Anyway, back to the original topic - I reckon both systems would work great, and I'd say for a street car or sleeper look go the VintageSpeed, while
for something all out go the CSP.
I've got one of classic's sidewinders on Jezzi at the moment, but when it dies think it'll be a CSP I put on next... while it'll either be an
Abarth replica or a VintageSpeed going on the Ghia.
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
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My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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 matberry
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| posted on April 7th, 2012 at 09:01 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
The Python will flow better than the Vintage speed due to the path of the piping plus the vintage sticks 1&2 and 3&4 together and this isn't
great for exhaust design and allowing the cylinders to be scavenged properly.
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So with this blanket statement, can you explain the disadvantages of the expansion chambers they use on the comp merged system?
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Why waste your money giving it to a companies back pocket?
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Why give your money to an Aussie company???? Well when you get the incorrect part you will wish you did, or in the case of the Vintage Speed, buying
local will give you not only a saving as to what you pay buying direct, but you may also get advantages of a custom requirement that you didn't even
know existed......
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Sides
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| posted on April 7th, 2012 at 09:52 AM |
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The expansion chamber is to do with the pressure and velocity of the spent gases going down the pipe in relation to a small vacuum it creates at the
exhaust valve. Oh and a 2 into 1 with an expansion chamber can even out the pulses you get... similar to how a balancing tank helps when trying to get
a good MAP signal from multiple IR throttle bodies. There's general guides and formula's for it all, but in the end it comes down to repeated build
and test cycles to get something that works.
Giving $$$ to an Aussie company is a much easier question - we need local expert type companies around, so if it's something you need
advice/assistance on like Matt says there's a benefit to having someone local, and IMHO worth paying a bit more for that. It's a Value Add - you're
getting something you otherwise couldn't - and it's only reasonable to pay something for that service/knowledge/experience.
Very different story from a place who's just reselling stuff from O/S and not really giving anything extra, couldn't fit the part to your car if
their life depended on it and basically can't give any more info than on the manufacturer's website. Don't get me wrong - those guys have a place
too, just they've made their business model completely excluding service, and so they have to compete directly on price or they'll lose.
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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Sides
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| posted on April 7th, 2012 at 10:08 AM |
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Oh - and of course my favorite at the moment... an Aussie company who designs something, and then assembles it here using O/S components to be sold
here and in the US... WTF is it 20% cheaper for me to buy it from the US distributor and import it myself than to buy it direct !?!?!
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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psimitar
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| posted on April 7th, 2012 at 03:53 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by waltermitty
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a
companies back pocket?
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WRONG. The freight cost and tariff ( if applicable which often seems very arbitrary )is added to the item cost and if the total is over $1000 then
you will pay GST on the full amount.
It still may well be worthwhile buying overseas but beware you will find shipping is usually expensive.
Mitchell
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I've bought plenty from overseas and has worked out very well. Check it out before you rule it out. Also, don't rely on CSP to do the shipping as
they do screw people over on this just like CIP1 in the USA. It's a bit more hassle but I've found some international shippers that give much better
rates than what CSP give.
VW Heritage in the UK are one of the best I've found for giviing exact postage pricing and not putting a profit margin on the post aswell.
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
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psimitar
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| posted on April 7th, 2012 at 03:59 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by cb john
Have you got any charts to support the comment?
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This is from research I've been doing in exhaust system design. The basics require a 4into1 or 4into2into1 design. This relates to the firing order
of the cylinders and if the Beetle is 1-4-3-2 then 1 & 3 and 4 & 2 should be merged togther in a 4-2-1 design. 4-2-1 gives better low and mid
performance. 4-1 design gives more top end power but losses a bit from the low and mid range.
if you look at the vintage design you have 1&2, 4&3 merged together so causes the gases to not flow as well and the reverse wave gets
cancelled out so the cylinder doesn't have the help of the reverse wave to scavange what left of the exhaust and help draw in fresh air-fuel mixture
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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psimitar
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| posted on April 7th, 2012 at 04:07 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Sides
Oh - and of course my favorite at the moment... an Aussie company who designs something, and then assembles it here using O/S components to be sold
here and in the US... WTF is it 20% cheaper for me to buy it from the US distributor and import it myself than to buy it direct !?!?!
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YOu pay 20% more here cos the Oz businesses do seem to do a lovely mark up on O/S items. The excuse of shipping and taxes is very lame cos when you do
the maths it's still less than what they ask and also the O/S company generally give a 20-30 discount to an Aussie stockist of their products.
Making a profit is fine but blatant ripping people off ain't.
As for local knowledge, sure I use local when I have need but if it's something I'm knowledable of then I'll buy it cheaper.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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 vw54
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 11:30 AM |
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So whats the decision Craig S
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Craig S
A.k.a.: Craig
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 11:50 AM |
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Um, don't know yet. I've been following this and listening to everything, and pondering.
The easier ability to include heaters with the CSP makes it tempting, but I just need to get off my backside and give VVDS a call about the Vintage
Speed.
Either way I'll have to make a decision by the end of this week.
Oh and BTW, I'm happy to buy local because most workshops can't exist without selling parts, and most I've dealt with are happy to support the
product they sell. Worth any extra in my book.
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita
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sander288
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 12:11 PM |
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Craig,
Do the CSP boxes not tie in with other systems like the Vintage Speed Heater box version or even a more conventional header?
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psimitar
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 02:26 PM |
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Hmm, just remembered that volksworld did an exhuast shoot out last year sometime. Pretty sure they did single and dual quiet packs, Vintage speed and
the python. Send em an email and ask if you're interested as gave BHP results and may have even given torque/BHP graphs for each exhaust.
All were tested on the exact same engine with maybe the jetting and ign tweaked to get the best from each exhaust.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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Craig S
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 02:39 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Hmm, just remembered that volksworld did an exhuast shoot out last year sometime. Pretty sure they did single and dual quiet packs, Vintage speed and
the python. Send em an email and ask if you're interested as gave BHP results and may have even given torque/BHP graphs for each exhaust.
All were tested on the exact same engine with maybe the jetting and ign tweaked to get the best from each exhaust.
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You may want to read the OP!
Vintage and CSP came out on top, so I only included that page, and as Matt B pointed out, the testing (as you would expect in any simplified testing
process) was imperfect.
Moving on from that I've now spoken to VVDS, and the base on the Vintage system is cheaper, but there is mucking about with the heaters, which will
no doubt add cost in terms of labour.
If I utilise the current heater boxes, then the size of the pipe will be very restrictive (actually what is the diameter of a stock pipe??), but to
get the boxes redone with larger pipes would be more expensive. Either way the performance is also obviously compromised compared to a fully merged
system.
Still undecided
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita
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Bizarre
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 03:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig S
actually what is the diameter of a stock pipe
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1 3/8" or 35mm is stock
Your 1916 isnt a balls and all motor.
Believe it is pretty much like mine?? same cam?? 22/62??
My exhaust is 35mm goint to 38mm
To be honest - there are better places to spend your money
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 04:03 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig S
actually what is the diameter of a stock pipe
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1 3/8" or 35mm is stock
Your 1916 isnt a balls and all motor.
Believe it is pretty much like mine?? same cam?? 22/62??
My exhaust is 35mm goint to 38mm
To be honest - there are better places to spend your money
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Yep totally agree with Barry......waste of money IMO on a 60hp atw motor.
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sander288
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 05:01 PM |
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I though stock pipes were 32mm? not 35mm?
I could be confused though as I don't often operate in a post 1967 beetle world...
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sander288
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 05:05 PM |
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Craig S; bearing in mind what barry said; just take the stock pipes off the muffler and add some straight tubes!!!!
I did this on my 1300 before, it worked good except I had the wrong clamps holding the tailpipes on so I lost them over the course of last years
supersprint...
If you don't think it will work take a look at these guys http://www.rbernauer.de/
and also any of the Salzburg Rally Bugs...
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RODZ
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 05:11 PM |
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Has anyone put either of these exhausts on a lowlight with engine bar and had any clearance issues? I see that vintage speed do a lowlight model but
cant seem to see the engine pipe length's?
and are they available locally(Brisbane)?
As can only see that classic vee dub stocks the vintage speed?
"If it ain't rubbing,It ain't dubbing!!!!"
1966 Beetle
1969 Low Light Kombi
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vw54
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 05:12 PM |
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I ENJOYED my heaters this morning
WORTH the effort I sure notice the difference with the bigger J Pipes
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vassy66T1
A.k.a.: Marcus Vass
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 06:10 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by RODZ
Has anyone put either of these exhausts on a lowlight with engine bar and had any clearance issues? I see that vintage speed do a lowlight model but
cant seem to see the engine pipe length's?
and are they available locally(Brisbane)?
As can only see that classic vee dub stocks the vintage speed?
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I have a sidewinder (not CSP) and had to remake the entire rear engine support bar on my '69 lowlight.
The vintage speed kit looks like it should work with a lowlight and would have been my preference if I knew about them 2 years ago.
Alternatively, would you like a custom rear bar with a sidewinder and genie SS turbo muffler? .... going for around theprice of a Vintage Speed setup
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tar76
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 06:31 PM |
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Decision, decision's!! Go with ya gut mate either way you won't be disapointed they both are good systems.
"Obey your Dreams"!
62 Std beetle.
65 11 wnd Split "The Cross".
6? coming very soon!!!!
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psimitar
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 08:52 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig S
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Hmm, just remembered that volksworld did an exhuast shoot out last year sometime. Pretty sure they did single and dual quiet packs, Vintage speed and
the python. Send em an email and ask if you're interested as gave BHP results and may have even given torque/BHP graphs for each exhaust.
All were tested on the exact same engine with maybe the jetting and ign tweaked to get the best from each exhaust.
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You may want to read the OP!
Vintage and CSP came out on top, so I only included that page, and as Matt B pointed out, the testing (as you would expect in any simplified testing
process) was imperfect.
Moving on from that I've now spoken to VVDS, and the base on the Vintage system is cheaper, but there is mucking about with the heaters, which will
no doubt add cost in terms of labour.
If I utilise the current heater boxes, then the size of the pipe will be very restrictive (actually what is the diameter of a stock pipe??), but to
get the boxes redone with larger pipes would be more expensive. Either way the performance is also obviously compromised compared to a fully merged
system.
Still undecided
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Yea but that was a few pages ago now :P
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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Craig S
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| posted on April 10th, 2012 at 09:49 PM |
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I suppose this is where I curse myself for buying new tinware that deleted heaters. Just as well I have some spares lying around that just need a
clean up!
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita
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RODZ
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| posted on April 13th, 2012 at 08:12 PM |
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so I ordered a vintage speed exhaust for the lowlight from classic veedub, ordered 10pm wednesday arrived on door step 3pm today and fitted soon
after.
very happy with it so far fitted well, good sound for a stock motor, and is the first step to bringing the kombi down to ground level.
stay tuned.
"If it ain't rubbing,It ain't dubbing!!!!"
1966 Beetle
1969 Low Light Kombi
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tar76
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| posted on April 13th, 2012 at 09:58 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by RODZ
so I ordered a vintage speed exhaust for the lowlight from classic veedub, ordered 10pm wednesday arrived on door step 3pm today and fitted soon
after.
very happy with it so far fitted well, good sound for a stock motor, and is the first step to bringing the kombi down to ground level.
stay tuned.
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Nice
"Obey your Dreams"!
62 Std beetle.
65 11 wnd Split "The Cross".
6? coming very soon!!!!
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Uber Kafer
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| posted on April 19th, 2012 at 09:10 AM |
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2 local businesses are selling the CSP Python on-line or on ebay at the moment, $1050 and $1150. I doubt that it includes the nozzles.
I installed a 38mm system , including the matched size heater boxes, on a fresh 1600 twin port, basically stock, and I have the smallest nozzle
fitted. Its beautiful to drive. Sound is perfect. Looks exactly like the orange convertible shown earlier.
We also have a Vintage Speed system, on an upright type 4. Not quite the same as the one you are looking at. The build is incredible, but its not a
fully merged system so you cant compare them in that respect. Its always going to be a compromise.
I think the CSP Python is worth the extra cost. You can adapt it for any size engine by using different nozzles. Shouldnt ever rust through or blow
out either.
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Dasdubber
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| posted on April 26th, 2012 at 03:52 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
The Python will flow better than the Vintage speed due to the path of the piping plus the vintage sticks 1&2 and 3&4 together and this isn't
great for exhaust design and allowing the cylinders to be scavenged properly.
Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a
companies back pocket?
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I don't want to get the thread off topic, but felt I had to address this post. You may have done the Euro to A$ conversion on a different day so I
acknowledge that it could have come in under $1K....but the system bought direct from CSP is 734 Euros plus $89 Euros for the J-pipes. On todays
exchange rate thats A$1048. We sea freight and air freight parts from around the globe and would be interested to see how cheaply you could land such
an exhaust as I'm always willing to find better alternatives to what we have, and henc adjust our prices accordingly.
I don't want to get into the GST/duty issue too far but I too have been slugged personally for parts under $1K but freight pushes it over the
threshold. Admittedly I have not tried to get this reimbursed. As a business we have to pay GST and duties on everything whether our shipment is $200
or $20K. So our pricing has to factor that in as we get charged regardless. Without getting too bogged down into the cost of running a business (rent,
electricity, insurance, work cover, IT, merchant fees, bank charges blah blah blah).....you would realise that the margins are very small on products
like CSP. If someone has brought in a CSP system (with j pipes) for a cost far less than what we retail them for, please let me know and we can review
the pricing, until then we hope others don't see it as "wasting money for a company's back pocket".
Jaycee is a good example, we cut out margins as close as we could to make it worthwhile to still stock the parts but obviously it was still too
expensive for customers, so we no longer stock it. We always try to price our products in a way that it is comparable to going direct when you factor
in the associated costs and risks (warranty problems, wrong items shipped, damaged during freight etc)....without making anything on the parts we may
as well close the doors so people don't have a local alternative.
Sorry to get this off topic of CSP vs VS - I have used and fitted both systems, with each one having their own merits. Rant over 
Cheers
AL
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psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
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| posted on April 28th, 2012 at 06:33 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Dasdubber
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
The Python will flow better than the Vintage speed due to the path of the piping plus the vintage sticks 1&2 and 3&4 together and this isn't
great for exhaust design and allowing the cylinders to be scavenged properly.
Also, buy directly from the CSP webshop as it's under $1k so no import duty and the shipping WILL not cost $500. Why waste your money giving it to a
companies back pocket?
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I don't want to get the thread off topic, but felt I had to address this post. You may have done the Euro to A$ conversion on a different day so I
acknowledge that it could have come in under $1K....but the system bought direct from CSP is 734 Euros plus $89 Euros for the J-pipes. On todays
exchange rate thats A$1048. We sea freight and air freight parts from around the globe and would be interested to see how cheaply you could land such
an exhaust as I'm always willing to find better alternatives to what we have, and henc adjust our prices accordingly.
I don't want to get into the GST/duty issue too far but I too have been slugged personally for parts under $1K but freight pushes it over the
threshold. Admittedly I have not tried to get this reimbursed. As a business we have to pay GST and duties on everything whether our shipment is $200
or $20K. So our pricing has to factor that in as we get charged regardless. Without getting too bogged down into the cost of running a business (rent,
electricity, insurance, work cover, IT, merchant fees, bank charges blah blah blah).....you would realise that the margins are very small on products
like CSP. If someone has brought in a CSP system (with j pipes) for a cost far less than what we retail them for, please let me know and we can review
the pricing, until then we hope others don't see it as "wasting money for a company's back pocket".
Jaycee is a good example, we cut out margins as close as we could to make it worthwhile to still stock the parts but obviously it was still too
expensive for customers, so we no longer stock it. We always try to price our products in a way that it is comparable to going direct when you factor
in the associated costs and risks (warranty problems, wrong items shipped, damaged during freight etc)....without making anything on the parts we may
as well close the doors so people don't have a local alternative.
Sorry to get this off topic of CSP vs VS - I have used and fitted both systems, with each one having their own merits. Rant over
Cheers
AL
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I'm glad your an honest business.
I was just letting people know another option as I have come across far too many companies lately that even with rent, taxes etc, that I have looked
into before replying, are taking the mickey with mark ups in my eyes.
I looked at UK companies as I've dealt with a few and with the exchange rate and not having to pay VAT you can buy the system for Around $830 and the
shipping will come in at around $150 ,IF you look around. Plus point of being an individual is depending on the country and company you deal with you
don't have to pay that countries VAT. Not sure why an overseas company would have to either plus surprised CSP don't give a discount to an overseas
company like most other companies I've dealt with from a business point of view have done.
Businesses do get it hard by the government for overseas imports but then again I have a friend who runs his own business and can undercut Siemens
Australia by 40% and still make a profit of 20-30% on stock he buys.
So again, it was nothing personal and was just meant to give people another option IF they think the price is too high.
So to finish off the best I can say is 'Good on you for being an honest company that doesn't rip it's customers off'. You are part of a dying
breed in this day and age and I tip my hat to you sir 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
23 Windows of Awesome
DAS Resto Haus
Posts: 5746
Threads: 289
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: feeling fine...
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| posted on May 2nd, 2012 at 07:36 PM |
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No offence taken, I apprecaite your reply and can understand your perspective as I was a consumer going back a few years, and hence shopped around
wherever I could including overseas.
We totally understand going direct is very attractive nowadays, and as mentioned above...that is why we try not to price ourselves out of the market.
In saying that there is no point running a business if you can't turn a profit which I know you understand.
The decision to buy here or O.S. has to factor in a number of variables like price, but also customer service, unexpected costs, taxes/duties and also
risk of damaged parts/wrong parts and hence cost to return to the supplier. Everyone weighs each of the above variables differently in their
decision.
Cheers
Al
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psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
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| posted on May 2nd, 2012 at 10:20 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Dasdubber
No offence taken, I apprecaite your reply and can understand your perspective as I was a consumer going back a few years, and hence shopped around
wherever I could including overseas.
We totally understand going direct is very attractive nowadays, and as mentioned above...that is why we try not to price ourselves out of the market.
In saying that there is no point running a business if you can't turn a profit which I know you understand.
The decision to buy here or O.S. has to factor in a number of variables like price, but also customer service, unexpected costs, taxes/duties and also
risk of damaged parts/wrong parts and hence cost to return to the supplier. Everyone weighs each of the above variables differently in their
decision.
Cheers
Al
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Indeed mate. You have to weigh your options and more carefully the costlier the item.
Just this week I shipped a decklid from Sydney and thinking of it's size thought it a safe bet that it was unlikely to be damaged and as the
insurance option was nearly half the shipping cost I decided to go without.
Low and behold the bar stewards managed to let it fall over so that the popes nose bent the decklid inwards.
Forunately, I have a panel beating kit for such annoyances
Always a risk people
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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