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ratty 63
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posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 12:30 AM |
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Hey, I just found a forum for Kalmaker users, looks just like this one!! Might just have to sign up and make a nuisance of myself asking silly
questions....
http://kalmaker.hotrodhandbooks.com.au/index.php
R
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Rota_Motor
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posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 01:12 AM |
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wow, just read thru all this thread properly at last.. and funnily enough, thats very similar to what I am going to try to do.
have TP manifolds modded with injector mounts, lucky I know a few rotor places that would know where to get proper injector bosses cheap 
and one thing I hadnt thought of was coolent temp sensor, or head temp it looks like is the go on a VW 
but I might start real basic, using a EA falcon TB injection setup, or even a 121 bubble electronic carb to get the ECU setup and fuel systme sorted,
then the multipoint can go in when I build a motor, geez Danielle is gonna be happy with me spending all her money especially when I start talking turbo's :bounce |
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Baja Wes
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posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 08:43 AM |
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Ross, you can try using
http://www.partslocator.com.au/
to find vehicles at wreckers. It reckons a place at Labrodor has a JE Camira.
All this work is sure making a jap engine conversion seem easy 
Good luck with it though :thumb
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nbturbo
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posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 10:19 AM |
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Didn't you have many Camiras on the road up there?Down here they were like arseholes-everyone had one.The most you will pay for everything from a
wrecker here is $150 and they remove it all.We don't worry with the dissy.Use a Volvo one because it is easier to modify-they normally cost
$50.Don't have any pics yet-still using last century camera.Ordered some linkages today from AutoPro from the Redline book.Still not happy with
my hold down system for injectors-will have it nailed this weekend.
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ratty 63
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posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 11:05 AM |
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Hi all,
Thanks for that link Wes, the Wreckers in Labrador was the first place that I called and they told me that they couldn't help - sounded like he
didn't want to sell the injection on its own...
nbturbo, the Camiras are everywhere up here too, however due to the fact that in Queensland you only have to get a roadworthy certificate when you
either first register the car, or the car changes hands, most of them are still on the road! :o Most People up here just run thier old cars until
they stop, then just get out, take the plates off them and walk away. Over a period of time (usually about 1-2 weeks, it will be ransacked for
anything of value/required parts, then trashed and then occasionally burnt out, if the council doesn't tow it away first... Have I made you want
to move to the Gold Coast yet? Nah, its not that bad, but I did watch an XF Falcon loose the front bumper, suspension and various engine parts before
being burnt out on the side of a busy section of the Pacific Motorway - all over the period of about a week! Actually, now I think about it, the last
Camira I saw dumped on the side of the highway sat there for around 3 weeks, untouched, before it was towed away!! Most cars in Queensland wreckers
(OK, perhaps only Gold Coast wreckers) are either rusted beyond belief (salt spray from the beaches does a great job of this!), or too badly damaged
to be driven.
On the subject of the Volvo dissy, which model? I think you said a 244 but what year? (obviously it would have to be one with EFI). How hard is it
to adapt the loom? Will I need the plugs from the Volvo too? This shouldn't be too hard to find as I have a friend that works for a Volvo
repairer...
Hi Rota_Motor, doesn't the 121 use a single point injection system? What ECU are you thinking of using? I could have gone to the SP FI too -
would have been easier, just bolt on the TB and sensors and away you go. No manifold mods required but the way I see it, multi point is the way to go
if you are planning to pressurize the intake system...hmmm, perhaps in the future...
OK, now I'm going back to the garage to finish fitting this manifold. Should have pics soon.
R
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nbturbo
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posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 02:12 PM |
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No-they come with a moulded rubber plug attached to the dissy with 2 wires hanging out- you can join them any way you like.
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Rota_Motor
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posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 02:54 PM |
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yeah, both the EA centrepoint and 121 use the throttle body injection, and I know it is not much mopre than a glorified electronically controlled
carb, but it still needs the EFI fuel system, and most aftermarket computers, possibly even delco will drive the 1 or 2 injectors, and when I upgrade
to multipoint, they will still work fine.
because for my money, the full sequential systems arent worth the extra money, falcons up to EB series 2 and commodores with delco right up to VS at
least all use multipoint injectors, bit still fired in batch fire mode.
as for ECU chopice, it will probably be whatever I can find secondhand at a good price, or possibly even the delco system. |
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lugnuts
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posted on January 24th, 2004 at 05:47 AM |
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Check this DUDES, http://members.shaw.ca/sharkeysgarage/scaffold.html :thumb and then go to Gallery,Latest engine pics :thumb |
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Baja Wes
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posted on January 24th, 2004 at 10:29 AM |
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nice link!
[img]http://members.shaw.ca/sharkeysgarage/images/vw/Engine-(left)-t.jpg[/img]
two words, holy crap!
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ratty 63
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posted on January 24th, 2004 at 12:17 PM |
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Hmmm...
Looks nice doesn't it! I'm not planning on going quite that far with mine (yet), although once everything is working OK perhaps one of
those Toyota superchargers....
Finished fitting the manifold yesterday! Required a little bit of modification to bothe the tinware and the injector mounts to make them fit, but
once fitted its hardly noticable.
Just recieved a reply from Alan at Kalmaker regarding my questions:
Quote: |
Yes the N13 is nearly identical to JE, but has a crappy harnesss. Try and get a JE if you can.
V6 uses differnet ign module, so there fore has different plugs,
Are you going to use the N13/JE dissy in the vdub, becoz module is built in and you want the right plugs to connect.
Dont be concerned about knock sensor. $ dont have them, but you probably could use V6 one if you want, might be a little out but should tell if there
is knock.
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...so, if I decide to use the JE/N13 dissy, I would be best purchasing the JE loom to do the job, only problem is that the JE loom doesn't have a
knock sensor - perhaps it could be wired in, its likely but I'm not sure. Wotdoyarekon?
On the other hand, if I decide to use the Volvo dissy, I could use the loom from a VN/VP which has the added advantage of having the knock sensor
built into the loom. Might be a bit easier to find too...
nbturbo, do you know what loom your friend used in the cars he did in the past? Or did he just make one up to suit?
So much info to take in... any info anyone can share is greatly appreciated.
R
PS: Did you see the close up views of the CB Performance end castings on the site that Lugnuts posted a link to? Would fix a few of the issues that
I have had fitting mine, however I'm not sure about mounting the injectors up there.... s'pose it would still work OK.
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nbturbo
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posted on January 24th, 2004 at 01:31 PM |
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Use everything from the Camira-just need to cut and shut the loom to fit the VW.ECU goes in behind rear seat.Cut hole to fit plug thru(50mm from
memory)and use Camira rubber grommet.What injectors are you using and how are you holding them in place?
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tassupervee
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posted on January 24th, 2004 at 04:58 PM |
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Dont get too bent out of shape about the knock sensor (or lack of it)
Not a lot of aftermarket systems bother with them anyway.
Depending on the sophistocation of the audio filtering, knock sensors can interpret rattles and other extranious noises as detonation and pull
ignition timing.
Dont bother with it unless you are really desperate to impress or are running insane boost pressures!
Neither my Microtech nor EMS systems use them.
Another place to simplify the placement of a "coolant sensor" is to use a modified sensor, designed for inlet air temp, and place it
underneath a cylinder air outlet.
When the sensors are vented with holes, they react to temp rises very quickly.
It makes it a doddle to mount them.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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ratty 63
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posted on January 28th, 2004 at 01:15 PM |
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Thanks guys!
I'm back on the hunt for a reasonably priced JE Camira set-up to install. Have just come across a yard that sells repo's and insurance
write offs - a mate of mine just purchased an undamaged 'late model' sigma from them as spare parts for his car - cost him $200 - he drove
it home and is now considering wrecking his first car and keeping this one!! I am just about to go and have a look at the yard as he tells me that they have a number of Camiras up there... don't know what
model yet but...
As for which injectors I am planning on using - well, at this stage I will be using the injectors from the Camira. I will see how this works out and
change them in the future if there is an issue with them. As for how to hold them down, I had originally planned to use the same system as the
standard VW injectors use, however since then I have seen a number of other injected cars and have seen that they are all held in place by the fuel
rail. This appears to be a better idea as the mounting block that had been welded to my end castings interfears with the tinware arount the heads and
I have had to file it down. It is still of use at the moment, however I feel that it will foul on the body of the car if I leave the endcastings
fitted when putting the engine in. To get around this problem I could remove the mounting block totally, and use a different mounting system. I will
experiment with this further once I have the injectors/fuel rail in my possession (soon hopefully!)
If this lead regarding the repo yard doesn't pay off, I will probably postpone my search until after the Toowoomba Swap in a weeks time... you
never know what is going to show up there :thumb
Whilst I am here, I have a question about fuel pumps- I had planned on using the pump from the Camira too, however I have since discovered that this
pump is an internal tank pump (ie: submerged) and will not be able to be fitted to my system, so now I need to locate another pump to suit - any
suggestions? What prices would you expect to pay for these pumps? The VL Commodore pump seems to be a popular choice amongst other FI converts...
not sure why yet (perhaps they are just available everywhere and cheap???) It was also suggested that I try a FI Kombi pump.
I'm off now to have a look in the repo yard (wish me luck!)
R
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Baja Wes
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posted on January 28th, 2004 at 01:57 PM |
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you need to read, the SURGE TANK POST 
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=9938
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nbturbo
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posted on January 29th, 2004 at 09:22 AM |
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Fuel rails
My first system had the fuel rail that held the injector in as well.It was a bit of a pain to make because everything had to be kept in line and
parallel so that the O rings could seal.This works OK if you are prepared to modify the body to suit,but it needed major hacking so decided not to.My
new one has the injectors angled to front of car where the engine bay widens out and will have fuel hose onto injectors with a clamp.Allows more
flexibility for fuel rail.I am doing the fuel rails at the moment,so have no info on how its going-will keep you posted.Have a few pin holes to repair
in my manifold-sealed it up last night and plugged in 15psi and found a few leaks.should be easy to fix as I have silver soldered everything.
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ratty 63
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posted on January 29th, 2004 at 10:52 PM |
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Hi all,
Just quickly, Ben - is that post relating to something that I missed? I can't see what you are relating to here (perhaps this post is in the
wrong place due to the DB issues experienced here in the forum earlier this week...?)
Wes, thanks for that thread - I read this a long time ago (when I first started this thread actually) and found the info to be very good - I have had
a surge tank made up and will be hanging it from the bottom of the parsel shelf, fed by a LP pump - basically the same as your system.
OK, I have had a bit of mixed fortune today - I tried the repo yard, nothing but JD Camiras - no use to me 
I rang the yard that quoted me the best price for what I was looking for (they were going to buy in a car for me to get the parts from), still no car
- thats over 3 weeks now 
I rang a wrecking yard specialising in European vehicles to get a price on a Volvo Dissy - couldn't help me at the moment (none in stock), but I
asked if they knew anyone with a JE Camira for wrecking... they have one there!!! It is complete and they will remove the parts I need for $110!
    Finally some success! Of course there was
one problem - the car was on top of a number of other cars and thier forklift was broken so I will have to wait until the forklift is repaired
(tomorrow morning) before they can get the parts for me - I think I can wait that long considering....
Then my Brother tells me that he wants some extra garage space at his place, so now I have to find somewhere to put my Twin cab project  :cry:cussing...
I have however managed to finish putting together my manifold system and re-assembling the engine (with the exception of the exhaust) and everything
fits . I hope to have pics of all this stuff up on my web site in the next few days... as soon as I have the stuff from the Camira.
I wonder what tomorrow will be like...
R
PS: hows everyone else going?
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Baja Wes
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posted on January 30th, 2004 at 08:30 AM |
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Quote: | Originally
posted by ratty 63
I have had a surge tank made up and will be hanging it from the bottom of the parsel shelf, fed by a LP pump
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Parcel shelf? I wouldn't mount any fuel related components inside the vehicles cabin. For one I don't think the authorities will like it and
two it's kinda dangerous. You don't want any chance of fuel spraying around the cabin, especially if you have an accident.
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ratty 63
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posted on January 30th, 2004 at 02:11 PM |
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...no, under the parcel shelf, that is, beside the gearbox, outside the cabin of the vehicle.
R
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ratty 63
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posted on February 6th, 2004 at 09:33 AM |
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Surge tank
OK, things are happening again.
I feel like I have been bashing my head against a wall trying to get the required parts together for this system. The parts required are easy enough
to get, but everyone here on the Gold Coast has the 'It'll happen mate, just be patient...' attitude. I have finally found a wreckers that is willing to charge a decent price
for the Camira FI stuff, but I have had to wait over a week for them to extract the car from their yard, just so I can tell them what I need from it.
Now they tell me that the parts will be available for me to pick up on Monday...we will see...:bounce
On the positive side, I have just recieved my surge tank from a friend of my Brothers. It was custom made to my specs, and to mount where I want it mounted. I still have to get and fit the hose fittings to the tank,
which I will be doing on Monday. Whilst I am there I will be enquiring about a fitting for the return line back to the main fuel tank. I have been
told that you can get a fitting that was described to me as a piece of threded pipe, with a nut and rubber washer on one end (inside the tank) and the
same again on the outside of the tank. Has anyone seen this sort of system? Does it work OK or should I be looking to have someone fit a hose
fitting my welding it to the tank?
I have included a couple of pics of my surge tank below.
Pic 1: top of tank - the bits sticking up are the mounts which I am going to be using to mount the tank to the underneath of the parcel shelf.
Pic 2: Bottom of tank.
OK, I am up for a busy weekend ; finish work tonight (Friday) at about
12:30am (if I am lucky! ) then leave for the Toowoomba Swap (Saturday) at
4:30am, then I have to get back from Toowoomba so that I can vote in the State Election before the polling booths close, then we are meeting for Dubs
by the Pub on Sunday at 6:30am. If I wake up on Monday (my day off work ) I will hopefully have a few more pics for you all to look at (and maybe even have a chance to update my website with some better pics too!).
Avagoodweekend! 
R
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Baja Wes
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posted on February 6th, 2004 at 11:03 AM |
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I welded fittings into the bottom of my tank. But the bolt in ones sound ok if they are designed for that purpose, and if you think you can actually
fit them through the small fuel level indicator hole.
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mnsKmobi
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posted on February 6th, 2004 at 11:13 AM |
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Ratty 63, you should be able to vote in Toowoomba. I've done similar in Vic no problems.
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tassupervee
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posted on February 6th, 2004 at 08:56 PM |
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The fittings are called a hosetail bulkhead fitting.
Hard to find in 5/16"
You can get milions of them in 1/4" from any go-kart shop as they use them as fuel tank outlets.
They are simple to fit as you simply pass a peice of stiff wire thru the hole and out any other and just slide the fitting down the wire, jiggle it
thru the hole and fit the washer and nut.
Easy as!
However, Wes is correct, weld in the 5/16" fuel line hosetails or fittings.Avoid using bare tubing as it has been known for the fuel line to blow
off.
The bulkhead fittings are a potential leak problem after time. Not the best idea.
Always use a 1/2" line from the surge tank to the pump.
Thos EFI pumps take a dim view to sucking and that can drastically reduce the working life of the pump as well as leading to noisy operation.
If you are going to gravity feed the surge tank use at least 1/2" line between the fuel and surge tank and keep it as short and straight as
possible.
5/16" lines for pumped supply and vents for the surge tank are sufficient.
Ensure that the lift pump you use in a pumped surge tank setup is significantly higher in flow capacity than the EFI pump you are using.
Cavitating EFI fuel pumps simply fucks them in short time.
Have fun
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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Rota_Motor
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posted on February 9th, 2004 at 09:17 PM |
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hmm, that surge tank looks pretty good 
just out of interest, what lines are you fitting where, obviously one off the bottom is to the EFI pump, and one from the top is the overflow return
to the tank, but which one are you using for feed to the surge, and return from the pressure regulator?
will definitely be keeping an eye on this thread, and looking forward to a rundownm on how you get the camira EFI working on the bug  |
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ratty 63
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posted on February 10th, 2004 at 01:08 AM |
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Oh dear, I have spent way too much today ..... actually !!
I have finally managed to get my hands on a JE Camira FI setup, from a local wreckers. I haven't had enough time to have a close look at what I
bought yet, but I can see quickly that the intake manifold is there (and therefore so are the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS), Idle Air Control (IAC),
Manifold Air Temp Sensor (MAT), and, of course the injectors, fuel rail (although not really of much use from what I can see) and fuel pressure
regulator). Also in the box of bits is the Manifold Absoloute Pressure sensor (MAP), the EFI relay cluster, distributor, and the entire under bonnet
wiring loom, which will have to be given a 'hair cut' to remove things like the A/C loom, the altinator loom, etc.
I also have the air filter and hoses which will help fill my wheelie bin quite nicely!
After I picked this system up I spent the rest of the day running in circles! :o
I picked up the necessary hose fittings for my surge tank from a hose supplier, and whilst I was there I enqured about using a bulkhead fitting to fit
the return line from the surge tank into my standard fuel tank. He felt that I would be better off speaking to a FI specialist and see what they
recommended. On my way to the FI specialist I picked up a couple of meters of both low pressure and high pressure fuel hose (Damn, isn't that
high pressure stuff expensive!), enough hose clamps to go around (or at least thats what I thought!), a three wire O2 sensor (see my question later in
this post about this one:o ), and two fuel filters (one high pressure and one low pressure). I already have the high pressure pump, and my brother
has given me a spare low pressure pump he had kicking around.
I dropped in on the recommended FI specialist and asked a couple of questions regarding the return line fitting for my fuel tank, and his opinion was
to have the fitting silver soldered into the tank as every tank he has seen with a bulkhead fitting used in it (for whatever reason) had had a leak
around the fitting - he quoted me $45 to fit the fitting for me, so I drove home a grabbed my tank, then went straight back and dropped it off. Tells
me it will be ready to go tomorrow.
I enquired with my Brothers boss as to the possibility of him machining the flange off the Camira dissy, but his lathe is only quite small and is not
capable of grabbing hold of the dissy securely... I will have to look into this one further, or perhaps just find a Volvo dissy instead.... Then,
once I had done this I wen back to the hose suppliers to get a couple more fittings for the low pressure pump - round and round!
Now, for my question regarding the O2 sensor. The Camira uses a single wire O2 sensor and I felt that the heated sensor is a better way to go (see
previous posts), however this sensor has come with no paperwork at all (it's a replacement part so therefore it should just plug in...right?
Hmmmm). Is there somewhere I should go to find out which wire goes where, or can someone tell me (please)? The packaging says 'suits Ford'
- thats it. Not very helpful!:bounce
Rota_motor, to answer your question, I am planning on fitting both the outlet and return for the FI (high pressure) to the bottom of the tank, and
therefore the fittings on the top will be inlet from the tank and the return to the tank. I don't know if this is the best way to do it, but it
makes sense to me.
I am going to have to make a few brackets up to hold the pumps and filters in all the right places, but that will happen once I have everything
running (and the bodywork finished! ).
I have kept a copy of all the reciepts for this stuff so far and I will put a running total on my web site, along with a heap of pics once I get my
fuel tank back from the FI dude. I may even lay it all out in some sort of order so you can see how it will all go together.
Lastly, I decided to purchase a drill press (something I have felt that I have needed for quite some time). This should enable me to accuratly drill
the injector mounts in my manifold to the correct depth without fear of getting the hole crooked. Wife hasn't seen it yet - but you will probably be able to hear it from where ever you are when she does
see it :o Nah -  
OK, thats it for now - actually I have just realised that I need around another 10 hose clamps to do this - I have already bought over 20 today! Oh
well 
Better go to bed now (1:05am)
R
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posted on February 10th, 2004 at 05:08 PM |
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heh, I shoulda figured you would use that setup for the fuel lines.
just another Q, are you mounting the lift pump near the surge or near the tank?
and a quick comment about the 3 wire O2, I'd say its to suit EA onwards falcon, I think they are all the same, and use 3 wires (from memory) so
I'd say look up a falcon wiring diagram 
oh BTW this is Ryan, Danielle keeps logging in on these forums, just cos she owns the beetle. bloody women.
1968 pearl white beetle:kiss
1600 engine 
soon to be supercharged 
1970 and 72 Squarebacks 70 soon to be rotor powered
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Doug Sweetman
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posted on February 10th, 2004 at 05:10 PM |
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Three wires are Power, Ground and Signal. I would assume that the power and ground are red and black as per usual, which leaves the other wire your
signal wire, which should connect to the harness like the single wire one.
Experts ?
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tassupervee
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posted on February 10th, 2004 at 06:36 PM |
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Usually the three wire EGO's will have.....gawd.... I cant think but the 2 wires of the same colour will be the heater element and i think they
will be black.
They are not polarity dependent.
The signal wire "should" be white.
I hope I have got this right.
Glad you dumped the bulkhead fitting strategy. Your source is correct. They are a bastard to keep sealed.
L8tr M8
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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nbturbo
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posted on February 10th, 2004 at 08:34 PM |
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Ratty 63
Good day-you will need to machine a Volvo dissy as well.Will have to dismantle to machine body and to cut shaft and drill to take VW drive
dog.Drilling injector bosses is best done on a lathe to keep everything true.
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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posted on February 11th, 2004 at 09:45 AM |
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Hi all,
Tassupervee, your explanation of the O2 wiring sounds logical. There are three wires, two white and a black one. I will make another trip to the
Library and check out the wiring diagram for a EA-> Falcon to see if it sheds any light on the matter, just to confirm your theory.
Ryan, it sucks having two log-ins on the same 'pooter, causes that sort of problem from time to time!
As for your question regarding the lift pump, I am planning on mounting it next to the surge tank (beside the gearbox). The low pressure pumps work
fine when mounted here (have used them on carbed cars in this position and they work fine).
Something I found interesting when I was digging around for parts the other day; most of us use a small square block looking low pressure pump.
Anyone who has used one of these in the past will know that they are noisy (constant rattling when running). I have tried a number of things to try
to quieten them down (rubber mount, etc) and it did work, but they are still audible in the car. Our local Global parts store has a rotary (I think)
low pressure pump. Makes about as much noise as a standard FI (high pressure) pump - a quiet hiss, and flows about the same as the noisy style pumps.
They are only about $20 more expensive than the noisy type so this may be an option if you find the noise from the older pumps a problem - if I was
buying the LP pump new I would have gone with the roller style... perhaps in the future. 
OK, back to work now - will have pics soon.
R
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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posted on February 13th, 2004 at 10:12 AM |
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O2 sensor
Had a look at the local library and managed to find a copy of a service manual for an ED Falcon which has the same heated O2 sensor as I have
purchased. The wiring diagram in the manual only shows the colours of the wires which run to the connetor where the O2 sensor plugs in (ie: not the
wiring on the O2 sensor side of the plug) and of course, the wires change colour at the plug! Thankfully I happend to flick to the 'checking the
O2 sensor' section of the manual and here I found a pic of the plug with the terminals numbered (they are also numbered on the wiring diagram).
From this I was able to ascertain that the two white wires are for the heater element (no polarity on a heater so they can be connected either way)
and the black is the signal wire. Too easy! 
Hope to have the adaptor for the Throttlebody to connect to my manifold finished by the end of today. I am starting to see the light at the end of
the tunnel, but its still a long way off!
How's everyone else going?
Oh yeah, I visited the local Harley Davidson dealer yesterday in an effort to find out what a head temp sensor is worth for use on my set-up (the HD
sensor was recommended to me by the supplier of the Kalmaker software). They want $107 for a sensor - they are also fitted with an imperial thread so
that will require more modifications I suspect - does anyone know where I can get a less expensive version of the same thing? Or better still, does
anyone know if I could use the standard VW item from the Type III's and Type IV's?
R
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