| [ Total Views: 3162 | Total Replies: 155 | Thread Id: 4816 ] |
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 jenz58
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| posted on March 24th, 2003 at 05:48 PM |
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Yeh, the report isn't making front page (not shocking and awesome enough maybe) He was an ABC camera man, but did front of camera stuff too. Some
other journo's missing thought dead as well last I read. They take some very big risks as well and always have reporting on wars.
Must admit I can stomach the ABC news and The Age newspaper a bit more than commercial TV or the tabloids. Still not good news though. At least they
are not sensationalising it as much, working on emotions etc. More ethical in their style of journalism.
Friendly fire is bad so soon.
Glad the Aussie plane didn't drop the bomb due to doubts about the target given. At least not blindly following orders and not thinking,
it's shows some moral integrity.
S!!t it is becoming messy over there, you don't know what to believe
Let's hope the doomsday predictions of Iraq using weapons of mass destruction do not eventuate. With the media and propaganda it is so hard to
see through it all and know the reality.
People still travelling through YHA but they are a well a informed traveller and keep up to date not taking risks but still getting out there, not
letting this stop their dreams and plans in any major way. It's good to be working there at present as these travellers are not caught up in the
negatives we are getting flooded with from the media. They tend to be a little bit more savvy regarding other cultures and are keeping up to date
with things. Most are doing the Europe thing or heading around the world via South America before they hit Europe.
One person today still set on Turkey but watching developements. Turkey will suffer economically if it does anything silly, tourism is a big thing
over there for them, it is something that everyone can benefit from (well trying to think on the positive side of things. It is a great country) |
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 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
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| posted on March 24th, 2003 at 09:12 PM |
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Wow!
I have managed to indulge in a personal media ban (have Foxtel). I feel more informed from reading what 'real people' have to say here than
what I could possibly hope to get from the media.
Keep it up guys and gals. Maybe start a new thread or two.
Oh by the way, this doesn't mean I don't care or don't have an opinion, I just like to listen and get more info. I will definitely be
reading the books written about this in years to come. It seems it is not until later that a lot of the real info comes out.
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jenz58
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| posted on March 24th, 2003 at 10:01 PM |
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Peter, you're not wrong there
'J Edgar Hoover - The Man and the Secrets' by Curt Gentry.
'Hidden Agendas', John Pilger
Well, a couple of light reads. Any others?
Hmmm, you do have to be careful of the sources. Can get into real conspiracy theory territory. Will we ever know the truth? Well learnt in Sociology
there is no absolute truth, like searching for the end of the rainbow:alien
Just thinking about how hard it must be over there for our troops when there is so much debate going on and then the uncertainies in some areas. One
minute you're hearing the Iraqis are welcoming the allies into a town, then you hear the same town is threating and agressive to the next group.
Iraqi troops serendering or Iraqi troops booby trappped. Maybe it is less confusing over there and away from the media. I hope so.
Also glad I don't have Foxtel or Optus, and only watch the ABC or SBS news, more objective. Worked out in the garden until dark, nice. |
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Kubel Rat
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 posted on March 25th, 2003 at 01:04 AM |
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Media Farce
True....being a shift worker there is nothing else on the box other than the War.....IMHO the Media Coverage for this event has to be the most
Farcical reporting i have ever witnessed in my 35 yrs, They seem to find/hear or fabricate a "Rumor" & then every media station runs
with the ball.....
I truly have to wonder what "Pressure" the Coalition Governments have exerted on the Media as ALL Media are definately pushing the (support
this War)
Anti-War protests get all of 15 minutes coverage in 6 hours of reporting....12.00 am to 6.00am
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waltermitty
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| posted on March 25th, 2003 at 07:35 PM |
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Rat
I have avoided the coverage partly as i have two young daughters and also because we watch very little TV anyhow but from what i have seen it does
seem that the media is suporting the war .
No suggestions as yet from the media that I have seen of Australias part in the inevitable relocation of refugees.
Good old Auntie is perhaps more grounded, thank goodness.
I read today that the opinion polls had swung to a majority support for the first time .Understandably, I suppose that now it has started that people
have will tend to change thier possition or even come off the fence as a statement off support for out troops if for no other reason.
God bless them and return them safely to us.
MITCHELL  .
END THE WAR AND RESTORE
23 windows ...8 too many!
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Grey 57
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| posted on March 25th, 2003 at 07:56 PM |
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See if you can get a copy of todays Australian Financial Review. There were some very interesting articles in todays copy.
Probably some of the most balanced stuff I have read on this so far.
You are right about the TV media tho. They seen to be relishing all this stuff. Getting sick of seeing the same bits of battle played over and over. I
spose its good for the ratings. Sad state of affairs
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T3Forme
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| posted on March 25th, 2003 at 08:37 PM |
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i agree with you jenz if saddam is to be removed it should be from the Iraqi people. I Don't think saying that is to "stick your head in the
sand", as some have been saying, as any USA imposed government will in all likleyhood fail in the long run. If one country can force it's
political system (whatever it is) on another where will it end? I'm sure we all believe that a democratic system is best, but does any other
country have the right to overthrow governments/dictators? What the coalition is doing reminds me of the spaniards in the americas trying to convert
the "Savages" (indigenous people) to christianity.
Anyway.......
[Edited on 25-3-2003 by T3Forme]
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jenz58
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| posted on March 26th, 2003 at 07:56 AM |
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Not sure if the Iraqis will use chemical or biological weapons as then it will justify the invasion by the coalition. From their side they have also
been pushing the point that they will treat POW's within the law of the Geneva convention. If they keep it up then we have been the aggressors
and it negates the claim of the weapons of mass destruction threat.
Truly hope they don't get used or that anyone gets mistreated anyway.
It is a game of chess for sure. |
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Pat
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| posted on March 26th, 2003 at 10:20 AM |
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What I find really infuriating is the way the media are covering the conflict. They are treating it like a reality TV show, or a pay-per-view event.
I can't think of anything more disturbing to put on television than live war footage.
Ooh, suits you sir!
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HotRodMatt
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| posted on March 26th, 2003 at 11:32 AM |
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Chemical weapons are abhorent.
The U.S. is again using projectiles made from depleted uranium. They used these same hardened projetiles in Gulf War Mark 1. To the long term
detriment of the health of both Iraqis and U.S. servicemen and persistent damage to the environment where thosands of the warheads still leak their
chemical and radioactive isotopes.
If Iraq were to use chemical weapons or the U.S. to use them on themselves (yes, they have done that before) and blame the Iraqis would it really be
any different to the persistent use of what is undoubtedly a chemical/radiological weapon.
Matt.
*Maybe we should give them Holden Camiras instead of bombs and bullets... they'd be under the car all day everyday and out of everyone's
hair!
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fatboy
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| posted on March 26th, 2003 at 12:47 PM |
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"They are treating it like a reality TV "
Does that mean we can ring up and vote out Jonny H ?:thumb
" Captain Picard, why are there no Indians on the Enterprise ? Don't you need IT Support ? "
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amazer
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| posted on March 26th, 2003 at 01:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by T3Forme
iWhat the coalition is doing reminds me of the spaniards in the americas trying to convert the "Savages" (indigenous people) to
christianity.
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Actually I dont know that anything has changed. Mormons and jehovas are still knocking on doors trying to convert me!
which is hardly as bad as what the english and their descendants were trying to do the australian "savages" from 1788 till the late
1960's early 1970's. Open government "white australia" policy that they were to actively be bred out of existance. But that is
another political argument. maybe after the war...
[Edited on 26-3-2003 by amazer]
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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waltermitty
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| posted on March 26th, 2003 at 01:47 PM |
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Funny how the US is concerned that the prisioners may not be treated properly,under the Geneva convention, tell that to Australian Robert Hicks the
alledged El kida and the rest of the Afagnistan prisioners who the yanks have held and who not yet been charged.
Mitchell
23 windows ...8 too many!
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Kubel Rat
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 posted on March 27th, 2003 at 01:41 AM |
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BUGGER IT ALL!
Ok, i have been trying to hold off on saying this until now (so as not to offend any Yanks) but Bugger it!
The Yanks should be thanking the Iraqi's EVERYTIME they show a US Serviceman on TV, This NOW becomes Undeniable Proof that they are POW's
& will be treated as such, They cannot be made to "disapear" ie taken to the nearest court yard & shot....Although the Families of
the captured Service man are going through hell, Multiply that by 10 if you have absolutely no idea of the fate of your loved one! who is just listed
as "MIA".
Have they forgotten Vietnam? the Yanks had a hell of a time getting the North to admit they had EVEN 1 prisoner until the North Vietnamese
"Paraded" the US Servicemen through Ho Chi Ming City & released the footage.....ONLY then did the US have UNDENIABLE PROOF of the fate
of their Serviemen, once this was accomplished their release was guarranteed at the cessation of hostilities......
BUT NOOOOOO Yanky Pride has to get in the WAY & all we hear is a constant droning of " It's against the Geneva Convention!"
Sometimes the Yanks are their own worst enemy!
[Edited on 26-3-2003 by Kubel Rat]
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fatboy
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| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 07:09 AM |
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Seems to me that Iraqi TV is forcing coalition to be more honest.
Iraq says "We have POWS" US say "No you Dont" Iraq show POWs on TV
Iraq says "We shot down heli/plane" US say "No you didn't" Iraq shows it on TV
Of course then the US bombed the Ministry of Information and the TV station.
Makes you wonder about who is really playing the propaganda game to the media, and I for one am glad that Iraqi TV came back up as it does help to
give a more balanced view.
US really come of as childish when they break the rules in Iraq (POWS on TV) AfganiCuba (Holding prisonors without trial Etc) and then complain about
Iraq showing POWs on TV
" Captain Picard, why are there no Indians on the Enterprise ? Don't you need IT Support ? "
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Che Castro
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| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 12:47 PM |
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yeah I'm sick of the war, the Iraqi TV isn't really any better, nor is any of the arab news. The CNN coverage is rubbish, anything on
commercial TV in this country is pretty much rubbish. SBS is better though.
I think reality is what you believe it is
Jon
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twoguns
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| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 02:44 PM |
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its interesting though that the americans only piped up about the geneva convention once they new some of their men were captured...
there was a lot going around about the way the americans treated or not treated the afganistan victims. there was a lot said about the miss treatment
and punishment that was handed out.
it seems that there is always a law to abide by only when it suits the americans.
as for our PM, i really dont think he had much choice, but to agree with bush, as at the end of the day we are not a big country and therfore we have
had to align ourselves with ONE bully in the play ground. un fortunately it has been the americans and if it wasn't them it would have been the
brits and we would still have our troops there anyway.
love the opinions of all that have spoken. it is good to see that there are still a lot of people that actually think for themselves and to which form
what seems an educated opinion. who saw the news last night with all the students protesting about the war. but when asked new little about the actual
conflict and past history. i wonder what is being discussed in history at schools right now, and who's opinion it is based on.
Simply Cruzin'...
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jenz58
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| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 06:05 PM |
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Pity the demonstration got violent. Saw some of it on early morning TV and in paper.
If they had learnt about Ghandi then they may have learnt that it is more effective/powerful not to react back even if they where hit first (?) by
police. A peace march should be that, peaceful, non violent.
The media will always focus on the violence, make it seem like the majority of the crowd when it may have been only a small pocket of people involved,
it makes better news for them. Only caught snippets so really can't comment.
Know from marches I've attended that there is always the small group of people who are there for a fight and really have no idea about the
issues. Just stay well clear of them. |
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Che Castro
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| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 06:11 PM |
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yeah jen i think that was definitely the case... i watched today tonite and they were saying "SHAME on the protesters for being violent".
All they showed was the violent schoolkids.
On the other had SBS news showed that as well as footage of peaceful protesters one of them said that it was only a minority of troublemakers that was
responsible for the violence. It also showed people of middle eastern descent protesting peacefully. damn TT
Jon
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waltermitty
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| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 06:26 PM |
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A real shame about the protest , probable the result of overzealous policing as well as a minority of demonstrators that were stupid.
Real shame about the over reaction of the media , even calls to ban street marches???? sounds like a dictatorship thing.
Is it just me or has the media really changed there tune now ? Really pushing the war now trhat popular opinion has gone that way ( some pols are
showing more than 50% support now a coulple of days ago).
I think George Orwell called the media the Ministry of Information , (a front for propaganda) there are some frightning simillarities occuring.
Mitchell (not walter stupid choice of email address).
23 windows ...8 too many!
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jenz58
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| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 07:08 PM |
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Media is really pushing the war, not just you thinking it.
Imbedded media in military units is not good for this, very much controlled. There is debate as to whether it really is safer for the journalists
being with these units.
Watched an incredibly detailed media briefing on ABC news late last night, by a US Army officer. Slide by slide of before and after shots of bomb
targets showing the minimal damage the bombing is causing (can even be done to a building next to schools or hospitals with no impact on these non
targets-?) Very much trying to reassure people that no innocent people are victim to these bombing raids, or at least there is no intention too. I had
to watch most of it because I'd never seen such detail given before, really having to prove their actions on camera. With so much instance and
constant coverage their every action has to be explained.
Think I need a break from it
:jesus |
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volma1
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| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 10:46 PM |
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Restore not war
Isn't this what this topic is all about.
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They are still there, just have faith you'll find one.
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amazer
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| posted on March 28th, 2003 at 09:41 AM |
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i've just created a thread in testing so it would be out of the way of general viewing. These are the pictures you wont see on TT or ACA. They
are graphic.
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=4760&page=1#pid3...
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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HotRodMatt
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| posted on March 28th, 2003 at 01:00 PM |
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hahaha
[Edited on 28-3-2003 by HotRodMatt]
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Che Castro
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| posted on March 28th, 2003 at 01:52 PM |
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yeah they'll never show those photos in our media.
hehe funny hotrodmatt
Jon
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Kubel Rat
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| posted on March 29th, 2003 at 02:50 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by waltermitty
I think George Orwell called the media the Ministry of Information , (a front for propaganda) there are some frightning simillarities occuring.
Mitchell (not walter stupid choice of email address).
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No actually he called it the Ministry of Truth (MINITRUTH) ie Small Truth=Big Lies!
Now that is Scary!
I've been saying from day 1 that the Media is pushing (support the War)
Of coarse this whole war wouldn't even be an issue if the US would allow developement of Alternative Fuel Vehicles & the Growing of Hemp (for
Fuel= Hempahol)
I see recently now that the US government has said NO to the Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars as developed by Mercedes Benz....Why?? they
state to produce the Hydrogen & Oxygen (by electrolasis) would be more eviromentally damaging than to produce Petrochemicals!
BS....BS....BS....I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH...BS...BS....BS:cussing
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Flying VW
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| posted on March 29th, 2003 at 07:58 AM |
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All I'm going to say is it make's me sick to see 10 year olds protesting here in Melbourne. Especially since they don't even know what
there protesting about.
And try burning Iraqs flag over there in Iraq and see where it gets you.
F'N DEAD.
Shouldn't these protesters want the rest of the world to share the freedom that we enjoy here in Australia.
Instead of living under a Dictatorship.
BAJA NOW FITTED WITH A FULL FLYING REBUILD
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Spook
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| posted on March 29th, 2003 at 01:24 PM |
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You don't honestly think Iraq will have the sort of freedom we have do you??
Even if they get rid of Saddam, the law of Islam will keep them repressed.
Go and have a look at Kuwait's idea of democracy.
One family rules, no one else need apply.
Women cannot vote.
The "religious police" have more power than the civil police.
SOME DEMOCRACY!!!
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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fatboy
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| posted on March 29th, 2003 at 04:14 PM |
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"Shouldn't these protesters want the rest of the world to share the freedom that we enjoy here in Australia."
Its funny how ppl constantly use this argument to suppress peoples right to protest.
(Not aimed at you flyin it comes up all the time.)
If ppl believe in this argument then they should be happy that protests happen.
(But NOT silly children who dont think)
" Captain Picard, why are there no Indians on the Enterprise ? Don't you need IT Support ? "
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T3Forme
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| posted on March 29th, 2003 at 04:25 PM |
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There are different kinds of democracy aren't there? The U.S has their bill of rights, which the government ignores often, and in Australia we
have a Prime Minister who more or less says " I will decide what is best for Australia" Democracy? In the U.S they have a two party
political system and both parties are almost indistinguishable. In Australia we have a two party PREFFERED system, so if you vote for the Democrats,
or the Greens For example, you are still voting for Libs or ALP, who are virtually identical these days. Democracy? Yes we have freedom of speech to a
certain extent. But we don't have freedom of our lives do we? The majority of us have to work to survive, whether we want to or not, and with
each passing day, with this government, we are more and more at the mercy and whim of the bosses/corporations. can't get work? well look out
because you are on the shit list! Poor or disadvantaged? Get stuffed no such thing as a free lunch in this town!
I am so saddened by the way this country is going. The way of the U.S. All the wealth in the hands of the few, made off the backs of everyone else.
Thats capitalism folks!
Somehow i don't feel so free.
Liam
[Edited on 29-3-2003 by T3Forme]
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