| [ Total Views: 6001 | Total Replies: 132 | Thread Id: 75230 ] |
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 volumex
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| posted on March 17th, 2009 at 10:43 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by DUBB61
Thats the question everyone wants to know, but is so large that it would weaken the cost to benefit argument on thier side so it is a secret
SSSSSSSSShhhhhhhhhhhhh!
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It's all a conspiracy by the electricity companies!!!! They should leave us poor oil burners alone.
If you had read my post on page 2 and followed the link you would know the answer.
Here it is again if you can't find it: http://www.electroauto.com/index.html and http://www.zeva.com.au/index.php
and the direct link to the cost pages: http://www.electroauto.com/info/cost.shtml for US$ and wade around here https://www.zeva.com.au/trading_post.php for AUS$
They only bit missing is the labour component in AUS$, but that shouldn't be too hard to convert from the US$ page.
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volumex
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| posted on March 17th, 2009 at 10:49 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by cb john
Did any of you ever considered that all that carbon emition stories are full of bull ...?
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Depends which side of the fence you are sitting on. Are you saying that carbon dioxide emissions are higher or lower than reported
in the media?
(Are you an engineer by any chance?, your grammar & spelling seems to suggest it.)
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cb john
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| posted on March 17th, 2009 at 11:45 PM |
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Actually I am a wog boy, trying hard to blend in ...as far as carbon dioxide emissions go, it is a convenient subject to push on population...not too
many know much about reality of biochemistry....F**k the media...and by original education I'm a Vet...
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on March 18th, 2009 at 12:08 AM |
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Don't u all get it you crazy people all you!
Time to build ur huts and go back into your roots...
Stab some fishes, make a fire and dance to some bongo drums...
Every possible renewable energy source is somehow derived from the sun. Whether it be from the fossils in oil, the wood we burn, even the wind that
blows.... But the sun is weak! It took billions of yrs to setup what we can use for energy on this earth. The amount of energy the human race consumes
overall is not renewable.
ie: we bite off more than we can chew.... then...oh shiz! My bowls empty... no more! oy wtf bro!?!? Then what? One can only imagine...
A person thinks of a green option, and there is always someone who has to bitch about it.... Oh that Dam is certainly stuffin up that water system...
Oh that Wind generator is making too much noise... oh !! oh oh!! By the end it sounds like a flippin orgasm...
Human race is rooted. Live life to the full with as little impact and cost on others... and just bite the bullet. The human race with eventually cycle
around through the process of its existance and when it does we will make do. Its like what someone else mentioned heaps earlier about the ways of a
natural eco-system. If u got lots of a resource for a species, it thrives... till it thrives too much and demand exceeds supply and in turn, it
starves them of that resource, and the species shinks... and eventually balances....
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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cb john
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| posted on March 18th, 2009 at 12:18 AM |
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Just another angle to view the unknown..
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on March 18th, 2009 at 12:24 AM |
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Thats all it is though, no one knows...
The only fear is possibilities... Live life now rather than the future... within bounds of not being ignorant of your actions of the present.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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t2
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| posted on March 18th, 2009 at 05:26 PM |
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the electric car is cool , but i like the twin blowers idea better ..
gravity wont get you high
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silver
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| posted on March 18th, 2009 at 09:46 PM |
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If I had said "should I buy a Porsche" I doubt if anyone would have considered or mentioned how cost effective that 300k car will be
A Gallardo at 500k cost effective I think not
So Get it into your head that cost effective is not always a consideration.
I am eccentric get it!
I made the effort to get an estimate from Mike at CBB, feel free he is a business and a forum sponsor
and as cost was not the issue, I had not included it in any posts that sought opinions.
I am appreciative of the costs opinions I have received, as they have all had fair argument
I vaguely remember a story That Neil Young spent some 500k to make an electric car
Why because he wanted to
maybe if more people wanted this conversion the technology would improve faster, and become, what some would approve of.
There has been recent reports of new batteries that can be charged at an incredible rate a car in 5 mins (time for a coffee)
see link http://www.gizmag.com/go/5228/
they might be available for my first batteries change around 50,000 ks 4 years
Wes seems intelligent maybe a little objective but he might be stoned he he he (but Wankers a bit rough) this post need not become a 1916 style
thread
I can see a day when there will be charging points at the Nationals
Keeping it real !
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matara
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| posted on March 18th, 2009 at 10:47 PM |
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Koenigsegg unveiled an electric car the 'Quant' at the Geneva motor show a few weeks ago. The paint on the car is actually a photovoltaic cell, so
its good for a range of 500kms, takes 20 mins to charge and can to 0-100 in under 6 seconds with a top speed of 270kmh
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10187302-48.html
Its happening!!!
Cheers
Steve
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LUFTMEISTER
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 05:17 AM |
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The weak link in the of the whole electric car system is the fact that the cheap recharge they highlight in thier argument is backed up by Billions of
dollars of infastructure investment. The current grid cannot even handle a hot summers day if everyone turns on thier air conditioners let alone
adding inefficent forklift cars to the system. Whos going to pay for the upgrade? The people who want to have FUN or the poor Joe public who cannot
afford to have FUN? Until they can really capture solar or wind effectively to totally power these units with out having to tap into coal generated
power it is as I stated "BS Green science fiction." Now lets talk about nuclear powered cars
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
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silver
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 07:21 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by DUBB61
Whos going to pay for the upgrade? The people who want to have FUN or the poor Joe public who cannot afford to have FUN?
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Why not! They have paid for everything else haven't they
Keeping it real !
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 07:48 AM |
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Silver I like your forward thinking - in 10 years time plugging our electric VWs into recharge points at the VW Nationals. Hmm, Fairfield Showgrounds
would have to modernise a bit by then - at the moment they won't even subsidise an ATM.
Ah nuclear powered cars. It's already been thought of - the Ford Nucleon concept from the 1950s. See http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=3359
Can someone arrange for the electric VW to go on display at the Nationals in May? That way we can all have a good look at it and maybe see it in
action.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 09:07 AM |
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As long as drivers keep crashing into each other, I think nuclear cars may have some safety issues to sort out. 
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LUFTMEISTER
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 03:59 PM |
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what better point. you would drive A LOT Safer if you were incharge of a nuclear explosion
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 04:30 PM |
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unless your a suicidal kamakazee driver... howeva its spelt...
terrorism would be a piece of pie!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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silver
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 07:30 PM |
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Positive posts = NSW /VIC
Negative posts = QLD
Curious???????????????
Keeping it real !
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cbbvw
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 09:11 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by cbbvw
My views are mine, I try to base them on actual events I have witness or tried myself. I only believe 50% of things I read in magazines or view
through the media. I have to completely convince myself of the facts before I take them on.
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I feel the need to re visit some of the incorrect statements already made in this post, in particular those made to the actual figures I have
given.
The electric car we built and drive daily to and from work uses 42 amp hour sealed lead acid batteries or commonly called maintenance free batteries.
We run 12 of them wired in series which makes the battery pack 144 volts. 42 amps multiplied by the 144 volts gives you 6048 watts of power. This is
easier said as 6.048kwh. For this we travel 35 - 38klm on a single charge.
Using a locally bought meter that measures kwh consumption, amps, volts, watts etc etc I can tell you the car over a 2.75 hour charge time draws
0.3kwh out of the wall.
So what if it only draws 0.3kwh from the wall. The thing is that all the argument stated on this post about the carbon foot print , pollution etc,
about the electric car verses the petrol, diesel car are totally incorrect.
Further more the comment about the solar panels not being feasible in regards to charge the car, sorry but again also incorrect. My small (and I use
the term small in the grand scheme of things, as there are much larger units available), 1kw solar panel unit at home mounted to the roof produces on
average 5kwh of power per day, 7 days a week 365 days a year. Before you all jump up and down and say but there are cloudy days during the year
therefore it can not work 365 days a year. This is why I said the average my unit can produce is 5kwh. My unit can produce more on really good days as
high as 7.6kwh.
I have an open invitation for anyone to come to our work shop during business hours to test drive our electric car. Meter readings during testing can
be view to validate the information and statements made by us in this post. Facts are facts when they are proven, not just because some one quotes
them in a post.
I believe that I can make the statement that my electric powered car is smooth and quiet to drive, very reliable and cheap to run, more than
adequately powered, because I have a daily driven electric car and I have personally performed the testing outlined above whilst in the presence of
those much more electrically qualified then myself.
Emissions, as I have explained and outlined above there are no extra emissions caused through charging of the car when done at my house. Tail pipe
emissions are zero.
What ever your reason for being against converting to electric powered vehicles may be the argument that many have so willingly taken and accepted as
gospel in this post, especially regarding the electrical impact and emissions generated per klm travel are simply not a valid one.
I acknowledge that electric powered cars have limited range at present and are costly to initially convert.
For those who are interested I can tell you that the solar panel conversion at home cost me $2975.00 after rebates. Given my yearly average
consumption figures, this will take me 3 years to re coupe the cost of the instalation.
My electric car taking into consideration all the associated running costs will take approximately 3 - 4 years to re coupe the costs of the
conversion.
I am not narrow minded.
I know there are many exciting developments in alternative fuel/ power sources currently being developed.
I believe we need to start some where, we need to invest some money at some point to start the count down clock to savings both financial and
environmentally and I feel that electric conversions to existing vehicles is definitely one worth looking at.
Regards
Mike at CBB
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LUFTMEISTER
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 10:24 PM |
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So asking legitimate questions is a negative? Hmm so everything you say is correct/positive? Then there is no need for you to ask "should I go
electric?" because everything you say is correct and every other opinion is negative. Thank god the planet is in your safe hands and you can whirr
around in your forklift car and wave to the carbon burners safe in the knowledge the the barrier reef and the arctic ice caps are now safe. Cheers to
you benevolent overlord of this rock that is earth. I shall sleep soundly tonight. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Fact is total output of greenhouse gases that Australia contributes is 1.5%. So you can visualise what would happen if Australia went to zero output
tomorrow(throwing everyone out of a job). We would reduce a 200kmh (climate change) storm to 197kmh.
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 10:38 PM |
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Has anyone here yet to consider buying a horse?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 10:40 PM |
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but anyways, you just wanted to convert to electric for the novalty more than anything? I just got that feeling. Is that right?
Go for it brudda.
There will always be 2 or more sides/opinions to the argument. Its just life, can't change it.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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justbrett
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| posted on March 19th, 2009 at 10:51 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bajachris88
As anyone here yet to consider buying a horse?
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do they come in black? 
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LUFTMEISTER
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| posted on March 20th, 2009 at 05:49 AM |
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Horses? sorry but no good methane producers. The difference between a Horse and a solar powered car expert is you know which end the sh*t comes out of
with a Horse.
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
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Baja Wes
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| posted on March 20th, 2009 at 06:53 AM |
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Hi Mike,
I love your work and think your car is cool. But I just have to query your numbers as they don't make sense.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by cbbvw
The electric car we built and drive daily to and from work uses 42 amp hour sealed lead acid batteries or commonly called maintenance free batteries.
We run 12 of them wired in series which makes the battery pack 144 volts. 42 amps multiplied by the 144 volts gives you 6048 watts of power. This is
easier said as 6.048kwh. For this we travel 35 - 38klm on a single charge.
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So earlier when I said "you have 44amp hours at 144 volts which is 6.048kWh" I was correct.
| Quote: | Using a locally
bought meter that measures kwh consumption, amps, volts, watts etc etc I can tell you the car over a 2.75 hour charge time draws 0.3kwh out of the
wall.
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This is where it starts to get confusing. If the meter read 0.3kWh then that is what was used total over the 2.75 hours. Or was the 0.3kWhrs meant to
be 0.3kW, in which case you'd have 2.75hrs x 0.3kW = 0.825kWh. Either way, that is far less than the 6kWh the car uses to move. If it's true then
you could use 1kWh of the cars power to turn a generator to charge the battery and the other 5kWh to drive, giving you something even better than a
perpetual motion machine. On this forum, we obey the laws of thermodynamics 
| Quote: | 1kwh solar panel
unit at home mounted to the roof produces on average 5kwh of power 7 days a week 365 days a year. Before you all jump up and down and say but there
are cloudy days during the year therefore it can not work 365 days a year. This is why I said the average my unit can produce is 5kwh. My unit can
produce more on really good days as high as 7.6kwh.
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I think you mean a 1kW solar panel (no hours). A 1kW solar panel set-up going for 10 hours of sunlight could give you as high as 7.6kWh of power. That
all agree's with what I said, and shows you would need a 1kW solar set-up running all day to charge the 6kWh car (like I said earlier).
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cbbvw
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| posted on March 20th, 2009 at 08:41 AM |
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Hi Wes.
Thanks for the positive comments on our work and the electric car.
As you, I have a little trouble converting the information regarding the kwh measurement of power consumption. As i said my knowledge of electrical
power is limited so I rely on meters and qualified 240volt electricians to help with my research and development in Ev's.
I believe that what is happening here is the loss in translation between AC power and DC power and probably more important the difference between
stored power ie in the 144v battery pack and grid power, that being from the 240v power outlet on the wall.
As your questions to me is valid and constructive in the argument of power usage of an Ev and not just side line dribble as expressed above by others,
I will try my best to give you an answer in the next few days that supports my findings.
Regards
Mike
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Baja Wes
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| posted on March 20th, 2009 at 09:00 AM |
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Ok, thanks. The 6kWh seems about right for an electric vehicle.
0.3 or 0.8kWh is far too low. It would not be possible to move a car 38km with such little energy. That only thing I can think of is that your meter
is showing an average over a 24 hour period or something strange. 0.3kWh average over 24hrs would give 7.2kWh total. That would seem closer to being
the correct amount of power required to charge a 6kWh battery pack (the charger will use more than what it charges as some is lost to heat etc).
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 matberry
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| posted on March 20th, 2009 at 09:49 PM |
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Guy's its easy.
There are no diferences ac or dc, it's all energy, doesn't matter at what voltage, yes there are losses (mainly heat in the appliance/charger and
batteries) but it all can be accounted for.
Power is measured in Watts, 1000 of em is 1 kW.
When talking electricity, Watts = Volts x Amps, when time is brought into the equation we talk about AmpHours and kiloWattHours etc.
A 100 W light bulb on a 10 volt battery will draw (use) 10 amps.
A 100 W light bulb on a 100 volt system will draw 1 amp.
WattHours is relevant across any voltage but amphours is only relevant when refered to voltage.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on March 21st, 2009 at 07:29 AM |
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Who builds these electric motors out of curiousity?
Got a link to a supplier?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Bizarre
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| posted on March 21st, 2009 at 07:31 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Guy's its easy.
There are no diferences ac or dc, it's all energy, doesn't matter at what voltage, yes there are losses (mainly heat in the appliance/charger and
batteries) but it all can be accounted for.
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Beg to differ
There are big differences between AC and DC - especially where motors and capacitors are involved.
What you say is ONLY true for resistive load.
Coils (inductive load) the current vector is 90 degrees (i will say up) to the resistive load
Capacitors are 90 degrees down
The whole reason we have huge banks of capacitors for power factor correction in electrical set ups
the missing bit is "cos Ø"
On a straight coil it is possible to have current draw and no work done
SO yes it does get confusing when talking about plugging into an AC grid and DC power and motors and coils
Which is what this is all about
PS
it is a LONG time sine i did my electrical apprenticeship but i do remember some "general things"
Futue te ipsum!!!
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silver
Veteran Volks Folk
Dangerous when poked
Posts: 2169
Threads: 162
Registered: December 8th, 2002
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Location: Sydney
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Mood: In 2 Minds
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| posted on March 21st, 2009 at 09:18 AM |
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Good to see we are keeping the mind ticking here
its got to be better than Sudoku
Keeping it real !
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matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
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Registered: March 7th, 2006
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Location: Cooroy Qld
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Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
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| posted on March 22nd, 2009 at 07:49 PM |
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Well Mr Bizzare, I stand corrected, yes you are right and you obviously remember more than me from the apprenticeship days, but I was just trying to
point out the basic principles for the thread and that the energy can be accounted for. As you have pointed out there are many more factors that do
affect the details.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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