| [ Total Views: 9662 | Total Replies: 220 | Thread Id: 15209 ] |
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 ratty 63
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 posted on February 17th, 2004 at 12:54 PM |
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Temp sender issues
Hi all,
Still working on things at the moment - have just ordered the ECU from Kalmaker (Delco 808), should be here mid-next week.
I have been looking around for a suitable temp sender too. The Harley Davidson one is $107 (screws straight in!) and the Porsche sender is
$247.29!!!!:o Don't want to know if it fits - just too expensive!
I need to know if the standard VW sender from the FI Kombi or TIII is suitable. Does anyone have a service manual that gives the temp to resistance
conversion for the standard temp sender? If so, what does it say?
Also, along the same track - does anyone know if one of the parts suppliers can supply these parts? I asked Repco this morning and he wanted to know
what temp range the sensor would have to work in.... any ideas? I didn't think to ask if he carried the senders (or even if they were
available).
Can anyone help?
R
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ratty 63
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| posted on February 17th, 2004 at 02:17 PM |
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Hi all (although it look like I'm talking to myself!),
I have just had it confirmed that the VW temp sender is a switch (on/off only) and therefore is no good for a temp sender .
Back to looking around again....
R
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Rota_Motor
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| posted on February 17th, 2004 at 03:28 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ratty 63
Hi all (although it look like I'm talking to myself!),
I have just had it confirmed that the VW temp sender is a switch (on/off only) and therefore is no good for a temp sender .
Back to looking around again....
R
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no, I for one am keeping up to date on this thread and whats going on 
maybe the simple on/off switch could be made to work with the ECU, as I was led to believe temp is mainly used to determine cold enrichment??
well possibly it could be configured as such anyways.
unfortunately there arent many aircoolede vehicles that use EFI, so it could be a bit of a bugger... unless theres some kind of obscure euro car that
is aurcooled that I'm unaware of?? |
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Baja Wes
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| posted on February 17th, 2004 at 03:51 PM |
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I'm reading I just can't help , I took the easy way out!
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tassupervee
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| posted on February 17th, 2004 at 08:04 PM |
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A reasonable strategy for temp sensing is to mount the sensor in the airflow underneath one of the cylinders.
This will give a certain level of proportion to the cold run enrichment.
There are various different mounting (thread0 options for EFI temp sensing. I have got one in 1/4 BSP and another type in M12.
There may be some options in 1/8" BSP (1/8 gas) that may make it easier to attach into the head.
As stated b4, "most" EFI temp sensors are generic apart from some mazda rotor and yank GM varieties.
Try the Bosch EFI parts manuals at any Repco store or try Petro-Ject. They have offices in every state and have a shitload of EFI stuff on hand.
see iffen any of 'e, are available in 1/8 BSP.
Otherwise just mount it in the hot airflow.
The sensor will have enough mass in it to dampen the temp fluctuations from the air outlet.
Again, the sensor is most important in the warmup phase.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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modulus
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| posted on February 17th, 2004 at 08:24 PM |
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A complete VDO CHT kit (Cylinder Head Temp kits include 52mm gauge and sender) is only about $135 retail, so I guess the sender is less than $100
retail.
Example drawn from:
http://www.manxclub.org/Shop.asp?offset=20
hth
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tassupervee
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| posted on February 17th, 2004 at 08:51 PM |
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Nah, wrong type of sender.
EFI ECU's use a specific range of thermistor whereas temp guages use a variety of different sending outputs.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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ratty 63
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| posted on February 19th, 2004 at 09:29 AM |
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temp sender possible success....
OK, I have a confession to make - I posted the question relating to the temp sensor everywhere I could think of in an effort to find an answer
ASAP.
I have had two replys from the shoptalk FI forum and they were:
Use an oil temp sensor from a GM....
and
Use what is known as 'temp sender II' from a FI Kombi.
I particularly like the second sugestion as it is using factory parts and with the assistance of this web site http://homepage.mac.com/ratwell/TempSensorII.html I am able to
get a rough idea of what temp vs resistance readings are available. Does anyone have any comments on this part? I think I actually priced this part
some time ago (but thought that it wouldn't work of some reason which I can't remember!) and it was far less expensive than the HD
unit....
Any thoughts or other suggestions??
R
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nbturbo
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| posted on February 19th, 2004 at 11:10 AM |
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If you are using a Delco ECU you need only the ECU temp sensor from the Camira/Commodore.Available from Repco-Bosch part no.0280130026-$20.It needs a
12mmx1.5 hole.Put it somewhere in the crankcase where oil can get at it.If you have a Type 1 universal case,make an aluminium plate where the Type3
filler tube bolts on.Then get your tuner to reset the ECU for the different temp range-job done.
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ratty 63
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| posted on February 19th, 2004 at 11:25 AM |
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I'm planning on fitting the temp sender (for the ECU) into the head where the factory temp sender fits on the FI vehicles. I don't know
what size hole/thread is in the head, but I dont think that the temp sender from the GM would be suitable would it?
I am also planning on using the Delco with the realtime mod so that I can tune it from a laptop, so I should be able to mod the sender calabration
myself (I think). I will know more about this shortly (asked question on the Kalmaker forum).
R
[Edited on 19-2-2004 by ratty 63]
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nbturbo
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| posted on February 19th, 2004 at 11:40 AM |
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Yes you can alter it yourself.The unit I mentioned needs to go into a liquid.Its a simple fit up and all you will need for cold running.
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nbturbo
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| posted on February 19th, 2004 at 11:47 AM |
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Just checked out Kalmaker-see you have been busy.I know that what I have told you about temp sensors works just fine-but I put that question up to see
if there was something better out there I don't know about.Looks like a big no.
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ratty 63
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| posted on February 20th, 2004 at 02:22 PM |
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I thought about that after I posted all that stuff - ooops!
I just want to make sure that the sensor will work OK with the Delco ECU - If it does then I will go and buy one.
Priced up the sensor (known as the Temp Sens II) today - only $30! and it screws right into the same spot as the TIII temp sensor fits - will require
a small hole to be drilled in the tinware, but thats no big deal.
So, unless I get a big NO from Kalmaker this is the way I will be going...
Nearly have everything set up now - just have to make the throttle body fit the manifold and bingo!
Can't wait until the ECU arrives mid next week....
R
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ratty 63
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| posted on February 26th, 2004 at 12:00 PM |
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quick update
Hi all,
Just a quick update.
I have organised almost everything that is required to get this thing up and running (or at least - everything that I can think off at the moment - I
am bound to have forgotten something!)
The Fuel rail is finished, I have changed the exhaust and mounted the O2 sensor in it (even got the Ford plug to connect it!), injectors are mounted
and secured, pumps, filters and surge tank are mounted temporarily on the floorpan (body still on stands on the other side of the garage). Just in
the process of finishing the adaptor for the throttle body to mount to the manifold, complete with mounting for Manifold air temp sensor. I have the
dissy away at the moment having the casing machined to fit the VW block (should be finished today some time - they are probably trying to ring me now
- internet on same line!)
I did a quick update of my website the other day, but I will do a much bigger update (rebuild) in the next week so that you can more easily follow
along.
I should be recieving the ECU today or tomorrow so I had better go and figure out the wiring loom....
Hows everyone else going?
R
PS: After the recent hot weather (44 deg in the coolest room of the house) I have decided to do an A/C install on this car too..... I'll start
another thread once this FI system is running, but has anyone been here?!
Nothing quite like a challange
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Baja Wes
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| posted on February 26th, 2004 at 01:02 PM |
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I am still trying to get ideas for my air-con install, so if you do anything I will be interested.
I trial fitted a golf center console AC unit, but I still think it looks too big. Need something nice and compact...
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on February 26th, 2004 at 02:14 PM |
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Wes, you need a 1303 Dash About the only good thing about these
plastic piles of crap is that they already have rudimentary ducting in them, and a relatively decent area for a fan under the hood.
I'm convinced the easiest way to do an AC install on a beetle is to pinch the entire setup off of a little jap car like a swift, or sirion or
charade, and just retro fit the entire system.
Ratty63 - cant wait to see your whole system up and running. You're doing almost exactly what I would love to do (and hopefully will do in the
next couple of years). Keep up the good work and dont foget - document EVERYTHING and the write an idiots guide
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ratty 63
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| posted on February 26th, 2004 at 02:44 PM |
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OK Wes, I have started an Air Conditioning thread, lets see how we go...
Doug, I agree with you on all your points , I am documenting everything
I am doing, taking photographs of all the components in various states (sensors removed, sensors installed, constructing the mounting for the sensor,
etc). I also intend to prove that I am not human bu publishing any mistakes that I make so that others can see what not to do.
I have a large stack of reciepts (and bits of paper for the parts that I didn't get reciepts for) so that I can list the individual prices for
parts and work so that it will be easy enough to decide what can be done at home (depending on level of expertise) and what will have to be done
'externally' (ie: paid for).
I already have a list of 'what I would do differently next time'. The first one on the list is the manifold end castings - I can see them
causing all sorts of problems in the future - too the point where I actually started to look around for someone else to modify another set for me. I
have put this thought on hold for now until I know if they work at all!
Air leaks are the biggest issue.
I will document everything in detail on my web site when it is all over, for now I will update the website with little bits and pieces that may be of
interest.
I really should get off the internet now, I am still waiting for the phone call to say that my dissy is ready....
R
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lulu94
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| posted on February 26th, 2004 at 04:42 PM |
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for sure, when this is all finished, get a detailed how to done, and post up the link for everyone interested
I will be doing it if Danielle will cough up the money.
speaking of that damn woman, she should learn where the [LOG OUT] button is. 
1968 pearl white beetle:kiss
1600 engine 
soon to be supercharged 
1970 and 72 Squarebacks 70 soon to be rotor powered |
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MikeM
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| posted on February 26th, 2004 at 05:32 PM |
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There's some excelent info here!
I can't wait to here of your success.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ratty 63
I will document everything in detail on my web site when it is all over, for now I will update the website with little bits and pieces that may be of
interest.
R
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For all of us who've lost track.. What's your website address again?
Mike
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Oasis
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| posted on February 27th, 2004 at 12:53 AM |
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Try this http://rosscosvwprojects.50megs.com/
"Tell him 'We've already got one'"
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ratty 63
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| posted on February 27th, 2004 at 09:42 AM |
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website
...or you can click on the "www" button on the bottom of any of my posts.
R
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nbturbo
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| posted on February 27th, 2004 at 08:05 PM |
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A couple of pics while in process-have finished now buit no pics developed yet
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nbturbo
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| posted on February 27th, 2004 at 08:08 PM |
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This is Mk2 using original TYPE 4 injected manifold flanges and home made injector bosses.In first one you should be able to see how injectors are
angled forward to clear body.
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nbturbo
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| posted on February 27th, 2004 at 08:10 PM |
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This may be clearer
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tassupervee
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| posted on February 28th, 2004 at 09:06 AM |
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Nice work dude.
It screams for a pair of seperate throttle bodies doesn't it!
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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ratty 63
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 posted on March 13th, 2004 at 02:22 PM |
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costs so far...
Hi all,
Been really busy with both VW stuff and other stuff hence bit quiet here!
I just sat down and created a spreadsheet to keep track of all my expences so far on this project (EFI), and have come to a total of just over $2000 -
but before you tell me that it is not worth it remember that the ECU and software is worth just over $1100 - a big chunk of the $2000. Not so bad
when you look at it that way!
I am reasonably certain that I now have everything that I need to get this motor up and running (except the temp sender). At the moment the hold up
is the fact that I am wishing to get the gearbox and engine mounted onto the floorpan of the Baja so that everything can be fitted roughly where it
will be mounted when the body is back on the pan, but first I have to convert the gearbox to a long axel set-up and clean and paint the box and axels.
Once this is done and I have finished a little bit of welding left to do on the manifold/throttle body adaptor, and sorted out the wiring loom
(I'm looking forward to doing that believe it or not - I have an electronics background ) it should be ready to go. I will post the dozens of pics both here and on my site as soon as I have a spare
second....
Must go, many things to do.... so close now
R
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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| posted on March 24th, 2004 at 01:40 PM |
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Hi all,
I haven't fallen off the earth, but I haven't done a whole lot of work on the FI system either:cry - problems in other areas have kept me busy for
the last couple of weeks ('63 bug needing servicing, new exhaust, new starter, etc/more landscaping around house/finding someone who is willing to
rebuild my garage into something bigger (yay!!)/etc).
I am busting to get this thing up and running so I will be working on it a lot more now. Still have to do the wiring loom and figure out the start-up
settings for the ECU, then, hopefully we should be able to turn the key!
Last night whilst at work I came up with an idea for a home made Vehicle speed sensor (VSS) which is a recommended fitment to the Delco system. The
commercially available unit which fits to the back of the speedo (between the speedo and the cable) is around $280 due to the 'odd thread size' on
the speedo. Now correct me if I am wrong, but all the VSS does is send a pulse to the EDU to let the ECU know how fast the vehicle is travelling (or
if, in fact, the vehicle is moving), couldn't this be done by a magnetic pick-up on a brake drum or some other moving part of the drive train (moves
in relation to road speed)? I'm sure that this could be achieved at a lot less $$$ than the quoted $280!
Any Ideas?
R
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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| posted on April 7th, 2004 at 10:21 AM |
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Arrrrg!
I just checked in with this thread to see if anyone else is having any luck with their system and I noticed that my last post was up twice (I had a
few problems posting it - just after the forum crash problem), so to make things clearer, I deleted one of them (I thought) then when I check again,
they are both gone - bugger!:bounce
Similar situation to my FI system actually! I decided that I wanted to mount the engine on the floorpan so that I could get the fuel lines sorted and
then get it started. Not one to do things by halves I decided that I would get everything painted and organised so that I don't have to pull it all
apart again - and its taking forever! First I had to find a set of long axels (so that the 10.5X31 R15's don't rub on the inner guards), then I had
to remove them from the old g/box with only the most basic of tools (every tried this without circlip pliers?:o). Once I had them home I cleaned and
painted them. Then I removed the short axels from the gearbox that I will be using (with the correct tools this time), however when this box was
removed from the donor car, we forgot to remove the axel nuts first - ever tried this with the box out of the car? My advice - DON'T! Rattle gun
came to my rescue but there was much cursing to be heard in the process!
Then I de-sludged the g/box (took about 4 hours!) and painted it, but first I had to find a nose cone with a reverse light switch fitting (I had one,
but it has mysteriously vanished...think my Bro "borrowed" it....not sure). Now all I have to do is refit the axels, axel boots, bearings, brake
backing plates (I wonder where they went....hmmmm) and drums before I can fit it to my 'pan (which still has to have the spring plates put back on
along with new inner and outer torsion bar bushes) - then I can fit the engine and start the final 'connection' phase of the FI system - I guess,
seeing as I will be in Sydney for the Nats, that this will all take place over the next two weeks - and I was hoping to have this car finished for
Valla this year - yeah right! At this speed I will be lucky to have it running (no bodywork)!
Hows everyone else going? Having more luck than I am I hope!
Is anyone else here going to the Nats? Perhaps we could meet up and put faces to names? Let me know if you are!
R
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nbturbo
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| posted on April 7th, 2004 at 11:01 AM |
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The post has come back to the top but showing no reason for it-27/2 last post-see how tis one goes.
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modulus
A.k.a.: Peter Hill
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| posted on April 7th, 2004 at 02:28 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ratty 63
...an idea for a home made Vehicle speed sensor (VSS)...
Any Ideas?
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Silicon Chip magazine published a kit form for a speed warning, complete with speed sensor... The whole kit is available from Jaycar for $50...I can
extract the speed sensor info if you want.
hth
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