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 johny rotten
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| posted on April 22nd, 2010 at 07:25 PM |
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Dave
have you posted any pics of your dry sump system ?
its a topic thats always interested me
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on April 23rd, 2010 at 11:29 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by johny rotten
Dave
have you posted any pics of your dry sump system ?
its a topic thats always interested me
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Yeah, you know I actually haven't yet - been a bit slack in that regard !!!
Gotten a few questions on things like that tho, so might dig up some pics and put up a thread on the things I've done that are a bit different. Bit
late for a "build thread" really, since the Jezebel's been together and busily competing for over 3 years now...
Oh and cheers for comments Damo & Marcus... will definitely share how things turn out...
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
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JVLRacing
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| posted on April 23rd, 2010 at 12:03 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Sides
| Quote: | Originally
posted by johny rotten
Dave
have you posted any pics of your dry sump system ?
its a topic thats always interested me
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Yeah, you know I actually haven't yet - been a bit slack in that regard !!!
Gotten a few questions on things like that tho, so might dig up some pics and put up a thread on the things I've done that are a bit different. Bit
late for a "build thread" really, since the Jezebel's been together and busily competing for over 3 years now...
Oh and cheers for comments Damo & Marcus... will definitely share how things turn out...
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people will be interested wat u have done with the car....spill the beens 
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Super1302
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| posted on April 23rd, 2010 at 10:15 PM |
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gee i guess the engineers at porsche and the like dont know much about this subject do they, hmmm, thats why they get paid the dollars and drive these
nice mobiles with twin sparks, hmmm they must be bright sparks too..........
cheerio
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SuperOwen
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| posted on April 24th, 2010 at 08:48 AM |
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Have you ever looked in a 911 combustion chamber? Bit different to a vw.....
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reub
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| posted on April 24th, 2010 at 10:02 AM |
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Very much different to a VW head...
http://www.rennsportsystems.com/2a.html
Single plug combustion pattern
Twin plug combustion pattern
I wonder if it would be more effective on some of the old Berg semi hemi heads?
Reub
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SuperOwen
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| posted on April 24th, 2010 at 10:44 AM |
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And on another thought have porsche used twin plugs since they went 4 valve watercooled?
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55slug
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| posted on April 24th, 2010 at 03:07 PM |
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GT3 heads run a single plug in the centre of the chamber. They make OK power.
It is a four valve head though.
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SuperOwen
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| posted on April 24th, 2010 at 04:06 PM |
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Thats what I thought, nice tight combustion chamber means no need for a second plug.
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 24th, 2010 at 09:29 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by SuperOwen
And on another thought have porsche used twin plugs since they went 4 valve watercooled?
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Whats your point ?
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on April 25th, 2010 at 12:21 AM |
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does it matter what shape the combustion chamber is if there are two flame fronts igniting from the centre (ish) of the chamber?
if the squish is good it will ignite yeah?
instead of one front travelling accross the area there are two fronts traveling outwards (as well as the small distance between the 2 ignition
points)
SO does the poofteenth of a difference in ignition/burn completion count for better efficiency.............
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55slug
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| posted on April 25th, 2010 at 06:47 AM |
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The porsche twin plug engines basically had a hemispherical head, two large valves forcing the plug to one side (like a VW head but the porsche has a
symetrical chamber rather than a wedge).
I think the clincher is they ran dome or tent topped pistons, so without the twin plug set up they effectively would only ignite half the mixture,
making them innefficient, so they went twin plugged to increase efficiencies. Basically it all works with that chamber and piston design.
mopar hemi chamber - new one !!
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ian.mezz
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| posted on April 25th, 2010 at 01:13 PM |
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everybody knows that you need bigger valves or more valves and a high energy spark, 
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Super1302
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| posted on April 25th, 2010 at 04:19 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by SuperOwen
Thats what I thought, nice tight combustion chamber means no need for a second plug.
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better spark, better burn, gases all burnt better expansion, better economy, more tq and hp.
yeah
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Super1302
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| posted on April 25th, 2010 at 04:21 PM |
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i know if i had the money i know which motor i would choose.
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coletrickle
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| posted on April 26th, 2010 at 05:09 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Sides
btw I see that no-one's taken up the free dyno offer... wonder if there's any VW friendly types in Bris who'd donate time on their dyno ???
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If your keen i'll check with my mate he has a dyno at his house down at logan village,Frosty and my self were gonna have a little
tuning day down the track I'm sure he wouldn't mind.Other wise when i get the 2332 back togeather I'll see where u are at.
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SuperOwen
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| posted on April 26th, 2010 at 05:53 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
| Quote: | Originally
posted by SuperOwen
And on another thought have porsche used twin plugs since they went 4 valve watercooled?
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Whats your point ?
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Point is twin plugs aren't required with an efficient chamber design, mind you theres no comparison between a new porsche and an old vw so no point
afterall!!
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fish26
A.k.a.: benito
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| posted on April 26th, 2010 at 06:20 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ian.mezz
everybody knows that you need bigger valves or more valves and a high energy spark,
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uuhmmm no, most of the time if the ports are left alone the large valve just gets in the way of the incoming mixture, but yes, more valves depending
on the chamber shape, piston top, engine configuration,ie overhead cam, together with direct fire ignition for a more efficient burn.
Hemi, symmetrical chamber would be a good candidate for twin spark in a vw head, I would assume hemi is the chamber choice for Stan?
There are a lot of chamber shapes that work with the type 1 head for the specific purpose of their uses combined with cam selection. "D", kidney,
oval, wedge, etc.
There are also head tweeks that can be applied ie, twin spark, tight deck, sunken valve, groove, etc.
I am currently messing around with a certain head, cam, ignition combo that I hope to dyno back to back with a stock valve head on a fairly racy
1776.
I will not knock the twin spark, because I know it works in certain applications, however I will not say its better than a well set up single spark
head, only way to know if its at all better, is back to back figures which we don't seem to be seeing from anybody and this thread is absolutely
USELESS without that.
I hope its not friggin pride getting in the way.
I think Porsche engineers know what they are talking about.
bitten by the bug..........several times
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azza81
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| posted on April 29th, 2010 at 07:03 PM |
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i had a twin ignition base motor in my manx
awesome up the beach extra touqe low in the revs
and if you hit water it didnt miss
you had to drown a lot of plugs for that to happen
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spdterence
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| posted on April 29th, 2010 at 09:55 PM |
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Testing this should be really simple though no? Just do a dyno run and then take off the bottom set of leads and run again. I assume that is how it
would be done.
From the engineering I know this is a sound concept - but would still like to see if it produced any discernable difference.
On a slightly different angle - can a dyno measure how quickly a motor responds to a new fuel load? Bear with me - say if you are pulling out of a
corner and you dump a heavy fuel load into the cylinder - how the combustion chamber copes with that large amount of fuel ie - if it can ignite the
fuel load quickly and effeciently - then this would effect driveability?
Whereas - just plonking a motor on a dyno and letting it build up revs in a moderated way doesn't reflect how a car is driven in reality to my way of
thinking.
Just a thought. Terry
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westi
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| posted on May 1st, 2010 at 11:10 PM |
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simply taking leads of sound's good .if it was the same combo.but knowing stan.
i dare say that a twin plug set up compared to a single plug set up would more than likely have a diferent cam.
beause there is know point burning more fuel if there ain't any extra in there.
bigger spark need's more fuel which a smaller cam might not allow.
just thowing it out there,but there will be some truth to the madness.
there would be no point putting a kick arse ignition on a car if you don't have any fuel to burn.
down sharon.
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Dak-A-Tak
A.k.a.: Peter Page
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| posted on May 2nd, 2010 at 08:28 PM |
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Twin Plugs , Nitro fuel now , Westi !
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