| [ Total Views: 4508 | Total Replies: 189 | Thread Id: 71616 ] |
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 newoldmanx
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| posted on October 3rd, 2008 at 06:40 PM |
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about facts...
1.
Im holding a photo and say...
"brothers and sisters, i have none, but this man's father is my fathers son!"
Q. who is in the photo???
(think about it for a while you may be surprised)
2.
person (a) are we alone???
person (b) yes, we are!!!
person (a) no we're not, we're together
who's right??
its just a car for f*%k sake
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MickH
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| posted on October 3rd, 2008 at 07:07 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by grogy
it be interestin to know how many that have critized the bible on this thread have actually read right thru cover to cover and tried to understand
it , or how many are basing their thoughts on emotion or what others have told them
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I would also ask that.Good question. But concentrate on the last part of your question;
"or how many are basing their thoughts on emotion or what others have told them"....
and apply that to people who actually "believe". Aren't you basing your "beliefs" on exactly that ...."how many are basing their thoughts on
emotion or what others have told them"...........Preaching..... Yes I've also read the bible and don't believe a word of it.Hands up here who has
read the "real" bible and not just someones translation. I see no-one is raising their hands,nor would I expect anyone to.
I would also suspect that most "believers" have never read the bible front ot back but believe soley on what they are told,as translated to meaning
by someone else.
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grogy
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| posted on October 3rd, 2008 at 07:56 PM |
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its always going to be open to interpretation, but that does not make it wrong, it just makes someone wrong. also by basing ridicule on what many
religions have said and done does not make the bible wrong, it just makes religion wrong cause they dont practise what it preachs
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 helbus
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| posted on October 3rd, 2008 at 08:20 PM |
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I want to live a meaningful life without regrets in the end
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newoldmanx
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| posted on October 3rd, 2008 at 09:25 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
I want to live a meaningful life without regrets in the end
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then you are god, because only you have the power to do this
its just a car for f*%k sake
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newoldmanx
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| posted on October 3rd, 2008 at 09:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Mick058
Fair enough, though if God put it in our minds at birth that we needed to follow him, our lives may be more robotic then actually 'real'.
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my logic, based on your statement, says if everybody converted to following god tomorrow, this would be bad because life would be robotic not actually
real
i think you have answered many a question with your statement.... its not actually real and id have to agree
there is only one truth... and that is there are many truths
if you feel warm and the person beside you says "its cold in here" are they wrong, whats the "truth"
can we accept that everyone is right 
if you were to gather a nominee from the 20 mainstreem religions with a following of 1 million or more, sat them in a room and posed that the person
with the one true religion raise there hand, you would no doubt have 20 hands i the air, each would claim that they have more truth than the other
i believe they all would be right
when you meet a person who is trying to "ram religion down your throat" there is no point trying to argue or "reason" with them, we have all done
it, if we can learn to be happy for them, accept them and acknowledge they are right (which they are, irrespective of their belief and our own and
they are within the laws of the land) they and we ourselves will in-turn be better off.
and just have to say thanks everyone im really enjoying this thread
its just a car for f*%k sake
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grogy
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| posted on October 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 PM |
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well death is a reality, right in our own eyes never made peace in a domestic ,national or international setting. so a lot of self 'right' has
caused a lot of misery...... got to some standard for right from another level
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newoldmanx
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| posted on October 4th, 2008 at 04:50 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by grogy
well death is a reality, right in our own eyes never made peace in a domestic ,national or international setting. so a lot of self 'right' has
caused a lot of misery...... got to some standard for right from another level
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it not that right in our own eyes never made peace its the fact that we havent respected that the other person/party was right too its more the
exaggerated ego that has caused unrest
and according to some death isn't a reality at all have you read any of the books i mentioned earlier if you believe in buddah, alah, jesus,
confucius, etc etc etc there is no death I should also mention that people in each of these sects have been involved in misery, misery is part of us,
no matter what you believe in (although some handle it better than others), its not actually external it is inbuilt or "programed" into us, there
are situations or events period. They are external until we label them internally. These events or circumstances do not generate or cause misery, but
our interpretation of them is the source of misery itself only you can take yourself to another level and some need gods to do this, just like some
need drugs, some just rely on friends /family, others are self reliant and some just cannot cope and choose to end there lives. Eeach one of these
coping mechanisms have a core that is the individual at the end of the day you choose!! and if whatever you choose works and isnt harming others you
must be RIGHT
its just a car for f*%k sake
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 Bizarre
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| posted on October 4th, 2008 at 06:02 PM |
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Surprised i have kept out of this for so long
I have read "most" of it ('cept the REALLY long individual posts - so orry if i am repeating) but most of it is Jesus V's Athiest
I can understand the athiest post
What i cant undestand is why Christianity is right.
Why isnt Muslim / Hindu / Voodooism right
Why do Christians not only say evolution is wrong (and there is only ONE evolution belief - yes??) but all the other religions are wrong
But then drill down a level
Only certain Christians are right
Catholics ar certain they are rignt and C of E / Protestants (sp??) etc etc are wrong
I saw on the teev the other day people complaining about Muslims not assimilating and seperate schools but when i was getting married i couldnt marry
in a Catholic church (my wife was catholic) as i would not take up the belief
My main belief that the evolution - dust to dust - the end means worms and compost belief is right is that is it against ALL others.
I belive science / physics / big bang etc plays a part - but Christian God and Jesus and Mary etc etc - sorry cant go there
Futue te ipsum!!!
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grogy
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| posted on October 4th, 2008 at 06:17 PM |
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when i said right in own eyes i was also refering to how some act on this, usually in a negative way toward others. i dont believe drugs are the
solution tho cheech n chong may differ.also with all the options for us to take, bible budda, confucius, islam, etc, i believe one day the right
choice will be manifest.
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volumex
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| posted on October 4th, 2008 at 10:47 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by newoldmanx
can we accept that everyone is right
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I would 100% agree with that. It isn't a case of collective right and wrong, it is a personal choice. My thinking I am right does not mean that
anyone else is wrong. I see it like footy teams, I don't care which footy team anyone else supports, just don't tell me mine is useless.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
I would also suspect that most "believers" have never read the bible front ot back but believe soley on what they are told,as translated to meaning
by someone else.
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From the people I have spoken to on this subject, there were a good proportion of Christians who had not read the entire Bible. Generally it was
those who were brought up as Christians. People I have spoken to who "converted" (I hate that word, but it's better than "got religion") later
in life have all generally read the lot.
Bear in mind this is a small sample, I'd be interested if anyone had any real research on this topic??
[size=-2][Disclaimer: Posts were trimmed to save space, elements not affecting the outcome have been removed, YMMV, not to be taken during pregnancy,reliance on information is at the users risk, message is for information only, all measurements to be site verified, yada yada yada][/size]
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on October 4th, 2008 at 10:52 PM |
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Jesus Christ is this still going 
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Wild1
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| posted on October 5th, 2008 at 12:18 PM |
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So what does the bible say about other religions? Do they go to hell, because after all, only the true believers go to heaven?
There have been so many religions over the years (I find ancient norse mythology and religion esp facinating) but they have all seemed to be simply
ways for people who can't deal with life or the world as it is to feel better. Although this ridiculous statement that not a single person is free of
sin (what about a little child who died soon after birth? how did they sin??) seems to be a way of sending 'believers' on a guilt-trip and more or
less shaming them into believing.
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on October 5th, 2008 at 02:42 PM |
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You have to be a "believer" to go to hell because as a non believer hell doesn't exist.
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grogy
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| posted on October 5th, 2008 at 09:32 PM |
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term hell is from ,hades[greek] sheol [hebrew], same word. refer to common grave of mankind. many religions teach hell is place of eternal torment,
this is not a bible teaching but an old doctrine used to control people by fear and keep them coming n contributing to the religion they profess. the
greek word geenna is used as an symbol of eternal destruction[ not torment] so no pain is experienced in any of the true meanings of these words. and
if god is true this would be consistent with his personality as described in most so called holy writings, as a god of love
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helbus
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| posted on October 5th, 2008 at 10:29 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by newoldmanx
| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
I want to live a meaningful life without regrets in the end
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then you are god, because only you have the power to do this
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I am glad you agree. I have the power to do this for myself, and believe in myself. I wouldn't call myself god, but like I said, I believe in myself.
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pete wood
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 08:23 AM |
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| Quote: | can we accept that
everyone is right
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at it's heart, all religion tries to explain who/what controls the world we live in. Ie, "Who is in charge?"
I think we can say that all of them can be right about some things, but as to answering the question above, in the end we have to pick one. Otherwise
it's like 20 different people saying they are the Australian prime minister. There can only be one prime minister. There can only be one Divine
creator and sustainer.
As to answering whether Christianity says it's the only one that is right, let me put it this way. Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the
life, no one comes to God but through me." In other words, Jesus says he is the only way to life after death. So I guess you have to figure out
whether he is what he says. If he's right, he is the king of everything. If he's wrong then good teacher or not, he is a deluded nutbag.
Re grogy's explanation of Hell. I think there will be eternal punishment. However, It's not unjust. If God is loving then he has to be just.
Otherwise there is no fairness. Think about it. When the state is lenient on crims we think it's not fair coz it isn't loving for the victims. Same
thing for God only he has a much clearer picture of whats going on in people's hearts. Does he want them to be punished? NO. Do they deserve all his
paradise/heaven if they spend their whole lives hurting and ignoring him? I don't think so. It's about justice and love in RELATIONSHIP with God.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 11:37 AM |
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oh even more propaganda...........
God create man?.....nah man created god.
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Bizarre
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 11:46 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
There can only be one Divine creator and sustainer.
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Peter - that is the point
Only ONE can be right because they say the others are wrong
If we go by majority rules - doesnt that mean Muslims are right?
WHY are ALL the others wrong??
Because.
Because isnt an answer
Why is the Deli Lama wrong??
Why is the Koran wrong?
| Quote: | can we accept that
everyone is right
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No - but i can accept that ALL religons are wrong
Futue te ipsum!!!
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trickysimon
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 11:52 AM |
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Well said.
Simon
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byronmcmanus59
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 01:25 PM |
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x 2
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newoldmanx
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 04:31 PM |
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| Quote: |
| Quote: | can we accept that
everyone is right
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No - but i can accept that ALL religons are wrong
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congratulations your right 
but so is everybody else
Pete, arent all the hindus, buddhists, muslims, taoists etc etc aware that jesus said "he is the only way...." btw a friend i went to school with is
a psychicatrist he was treating 3 jesus's at one time they all said they were the only way to god. One of them was dedicated to "cleansing the world
of rubbish" he used to start at one side of a paddock picking up the litter as he went he'd throw it over his shoulder then proceed to pick another
and repeat until he got to the other side only to turn and find the field littered (was the work of his archrival "the devil" he"d say) he'd carry
on for hours back and forth, every other day, reciting scripture as he went
can i ask the believers of varying religions here, where does faith come from??? how does one choose which one is right???, who decides who gets
faith and who doesnt.
Are you born with it, do you wake up one morning and just believe, or talk yourself into it, or does god give you a "sign" that you cannot
mistake
Does it mean god doesn't love me because he hasn't given me an unmistakable sign, so i can have faith too, i could pretend to believe. I just dont
think having faith is a conscious decision. Where does faith originate
its just a car for f*%k sake
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LUFTMEISTER
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 05:10 PM |
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Every morning I wake up with a sign
this internal message rises me from my comfy bed
this is a very powerful signal from within
its calling cannot go unanswered....it must be adhered to and obey
I rise to my feet to answer the calling
It's my bladder telling me to empty it. Some callings come from within.
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
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newoldmanx
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 05:55 PM |
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dubb61 are you taking the piss
its just a car for f*%k sake
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grogy
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 06:19 PM |
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pete, death is punishment. life is the blessing. eternal hellfire is propaganda from powerhungry religionists who once kept the bible truth to
themselves, but now anyone can read it and find out the twisted lies of priests for themselves. if u believe in god that is great so do i. if god
made us to go to heaven he would have made us angels in the first place. earth terra firma is made for man and man for earth. it only a mess today
because man thinks he knows best, and because of his self greed and ambition
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frenzix
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 06:26 PM |
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grogy sounds good
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pete wood
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 11:00 PM |
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I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just telling you what Jesus said. You can decide for yourself.
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 11:07 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
I think faith is about something that is hoped for without having ALL the facts. If there was no facts at all, there is no basis for anything. People
have faith in science because of the facts it's already provided. People have faith in Jesus based on what he's already done. If I can compare it
this way, we trust what science has to say because of the books it is recorded in for the most part. Christianity is the same, only people who follow
Jesus trust in the facts recorded in the bible. That's not to say that the bible is a science book because it isn't, but hopefully you see what I
mean.
And Mick I get that you don't believe because you don't trust the bible.
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I can't "trust" the bible as I don't believe there is or was a "god"...
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newoldmanx
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| posted on October 7th, 2008 at 06:09 PM |
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where does faith come from??? who decides who gets faith and who doesnt.
Are you born with it, do you wake up one morning and just believe, or talk yourself into it, or does god give you a "sign" that you cannot
mistake
Does it mean god doesn't love me because he hasn't given me an unmistakable sign, so i can have faith too, i could pretend to believe. I just dont
think having faith is a conscious decision. Where does faith originate if it originates from god why wont he give me some
Does it mean god doesn't love me
its just a car for f*%k sake
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on October 7th, 2008 at 07:04 PM |
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Poor diddums...
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