| [ Total Views: 9657 | Total Replies: 220 | Thread Id: 15209 ] |
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 ratty 63
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| posted on July 2nd, 2004 at 11:09 AM |
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...OK, no sooner had I clicked the 'post reply' button for the post above, when I recieved an email from someone else regarding the oil pressure
switch. They agreed with what you said Wes, almost word for word! It does make more sense than keeping the fuel pump turned off until the engine has
oil pressure. Depending on cost and fitting difficulties, I will probably run one of these switches for safety's sake....
R
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ratty 63
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 posted on July 6th, 2004 at 02:04 PM |
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Getting there....
A couple of things....
I have just trial fitted the Camira loom to my engine and was surprised do see that the loom is only going to need minor wiring changes to fit! I
have to move two injector connectors, lengthen the wiring to the distributor, and shorten the wiring to the throttle body (TPS and IAC). Aside from
removing the rest of the wiring that is not required (starter and charge circuits, cooling fan circuit and gauge sender wiring) it all plugs in fine!
I was expecting a major cut and splice session to get it to even come close!:thumb
I removed all the plastic tape from the original loom to make it easier to trace the wires (there must be miles of tape around that thing!) and
noticed that it is really easy to seperate the individual connections (also noticed that there are heaps of tangles under the factory tape too:duh ,
wires wrapped around themselves and others over and over! YUK!)
I hope to have the loom modified by the time I have to go to work tomorrow....not far to go now!
Wes, it looks like I have started an argument on the Kalmaker forum about the operation of the oil pressure switch. It would appear that it was
designed to do as you said, however it doesn't work...or thats what some people are saying. I'm going to leave this part of the loom to last and
then make a decision as to weather to use it or not. It may be that the Delco controls the pump, that is, no ignition pulses, pump turns off....
still not sure about this yet.
R :thumb
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tassupervee
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| posted on July 6th, 2004 at 03:47 PM |
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Makes you wonder if delco, in their "wisdom" added the oil pres. feature as some kind of failsafe for the engine in event of a sudden loss of oil
pressure.
Its a bloody good idea really.
Wouldnt work too well on the F-Vee however, as that engine spends a hell of a lot of its time with next to nothing oil pressure due to surging.
Doesnt seem to harm it much tho.
I just look away from the guage and the warning light after quite a few sweeping turns and grit my teeth!!!:puke
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 6th, 2004 at 05:14 PM |
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Yes you are correct-the oil pressure switch is used only as a failsfe in the event of loss of oil pressure-cuts the fuel pump.You won't need it for
your job.My FI guru tells me this-The green wire with the white trace from A1 at the ECU,put that to 85 or 86 on the Fuel Pump relay-30 to full time
power-87 on the relay to the fuel pump.This green/white wire is live for 4 seconds after Ign.turned on and will come live again when you start to
crank.The Delco system still has a fuel pump cut out built in-in an accident situation,the fuel pump cuts out 4 seconds after the signal from the
distributor ceases.I think that flat plug with purple wires is for an auto trans-the purple wires are for the nuetral safety switch and reverse
lights.When wired correctly you should hear fuel pump run for a few seconds when Ign. is turned on to charge the system and when you try to start the
signal from the dissy will allow it to start after the motor gets to 450 Revs.I hope I have this correct.
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 7th, 2004 at 11:56 AM |
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Ratty63-just re-reading this and couldn't figure where the question about what that plug did came from.Dawned on me to check the Kalmaker-all is OK
now.Thought I must be going crazy.
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ratty 63
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| posted on July 8th, 2004 at 10:52 AM |
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he, he, he:thumb
Don't you hate it when we use the same names, discussing the same subject in two different places! Thanks for your response.
I refitted the loom to my engine yesterday and found that less wiring mods will be required if I route the loom through the firewall on the passenger
side of the car. If I do it this way, the wiring for the distributor and coil fits without mods. In fact, if I set it up this way, the only wiring
that I have to change is the TPS and IAC section of the loom and the O2 sensor wiring (which I was going to have to change anyway as I am running a
heated 3-wire sensor) and move two of the injector connectors. I will still have to remove the wires for the oil pressure guage and engine temp guage
as I have this wiring in the VW loom that is already in the car - this will also allow the engine to be converted back to carbs (if required) and the
entire FI loom removed without any major rewiring being required. This will keep it within the specifications of my original idea - to make it as
'bolt on' as possible.
OK, I'm off to purchase some more wire crimps so I can finish this loom....
R
[Edited on 8-7-2004 by ratty 63]
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tassupervee
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| posted on July 8th, 2004 at 06:52 PM |
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Ratty
NEVER, EVER use crimped joiners in EFI looms.
Its bad enough having crimped terminals as standard but if you shorten and join a wire take a bit of extra effort, twist it, solder it and heat shrink
tube it.
You will thank me one day!
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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ratty 63
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 09:57 AM |
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...now thats interesting...
| Quote: |
NEVER, EVER use crimped joiners in EFI looms
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...the book I mentioned earlier and a couple of web sites that I have been to have said that you should never use solder in a loom as it has a
tendancy to break due to vibration - they say to only use crimp terminals....
...what are your reasons for saying this?
R
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tassupervee
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 07:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by tassupervee
Its bad enough having crimped terminals as standard but if you shorten and join a wire take a bit of extra effort, twist it, solder it and heat shrink
tube it.
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Hmmmm interesting that they dismiss the technique and advocate a crimping system only.
However, wiring held together with crimped connectors are subject to heat cycles, moisture and other maladies and over time, are prone to corrosion
which can lead to the dreaded intermittent fault waaaayy down the track which will guarantee you loose more hair than you have done so far. This is
partiucularly so under the bonnett.
This is also especially true of using the dreaded "Scotchlok" Those bastards of things are a menace and have been responsible for more wiring fires
and failures than any other reason.
Have a look at the way they actually connect.
Solder connections are no more prone to breakage that any other jointing meythod if they are done correctly, loomed evenly AND supported with heat
shrink tube.
They have been known to break right where the solder ends but supporting the joint with HST and looming neatly will reduce this risk to essentially
zip.
L8tr
E
[Edited on 15/7/04 by tassupervee]
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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MickH
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 09:58 PM |
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I agree with supervee....always ensure a proper long lasting join by soldering it and sealing it.
[Edited on 15-7-2004 by Mick H]
tssnq.com.au
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on July 16th, 2004 at 08:44 AM |
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Me too
Kruizin Kol
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lugnuts
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| posted on July 17th, 2004 at 05:18 AM |
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Do they use soldered joints as OE |
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tassupervee
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| posted on July 18th, 2004 at 06:58 PM |
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Usually no as they make the wiring the correct length to begin with.
However most of the terminals are crimped on. This is a concession to assembly speed and cost of production.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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ratty 63
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| posted on July 21st, 2004 at 02:16 PM |
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| Quote: |
Do they use soldered joints as OE
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True, they use crimp terminals in the factory loom. I can see your point of view here, however I have constructed looms for light aircraft in a past
job and if we had to connect a wire in the middle of a loom we would crimp it - it was a BIG no-no to solder in the middle of a loom - so much so,
that the head engineer wouldn't pass a loom for use if it had a solder joint in the middle of the wiring.... that said, all the plugs were connected
by solder so.....
I only had a handful of connections to make, so I have done them by crimping. If this proves to be an issue I will remove them and solder the
connections. I just can't bring myself to re-do all the connections again now....
I have finally got the system up to the stage where I can put connect the battery and attempt a start, but before I do this I am going to go through
the ECU end of the loom and ensure that I have power where I should have, and don't have power where I shouldn't. I have powered it up without the
ECU connected and all the relays activate when I turn the ignition to the on position, so thats a good start... then my multimeter battery went flat
so I have to sort that out before I can go any further....
Only have the ignition timing to do, check that all the bolts are tight and away we go (hopefully). With a little luck I should here it fire-up
tomorrow...... finally!:thumb
I'll let you know how it went...
R
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 21st, 2004 at 03:54 PM |
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I have probably missed it,but what did you end up using for temp. input for cold running?
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Midlife crisis
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| posted on July 21st, 2004 at 04:29 PM |
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Can't wait to hear how it ran
Marc
If you can't laugh at yourself you can't laugh at anyone else! Because life is to short not to LAUGH
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ratty 63
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| posted on July 22nd, 2004 at 10:14 AM |
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| Quote: |
I have probably missed it,but what did you end up using for temp. input for cold running?
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I am going to try a 'temp sender II' from a FI VW system - it screws into the top of the head (next to the intake port) on many (but not all) twin
port type 1 heads and same again for the type 4 heads. I'm not entirly sure that it will work, however I did a comparason of resistance values
between the Camira temp sender and this one, and they are almost the same so I feel that it should still work OK.... only issue at the moment is that
the heads that are on my test engine don't have the threaded section for the sensor to connect, so I will be attempting to start the engine without
the sensor connected - I will experiment with it once I know that everything else is OK. The temp sensor II is not all that expensive new (shelf
price at my Brothers workshop is $30) so I felt that it wouldn't be a massive risk to try it out....
Whilst I was at work last night I had a think about the system (we were not busy:thumb) and I realised that I still have a few things to do before I
can start the engine so it may put the initial start off for a day or two - damn Just little stuff, but its all fiddly so it is likely to take forever... However I have put a battery on the system and I am happy
with the opperation of the relays etc, so I am off now to do one last check of the ECU connections..... You probably won't hear from me until I have
it running - this forum tends to take up too much 'working on car' time!
Back soon (I hope!)
R:thumb
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on July 23rd, 2004 at 09:48 AM |
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You mean I have to wait until I get home from work and log in???
Kruizin Kol
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ratty 63
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| posted on July 27th, 2004 at 09:08 AM |
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testing.... are these posts going to appear?
R:bounce
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 27th, 2004 at 05:47 PM |
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Ratty-don't know whats going on here-says you have posted to day,but last post is on the 21st-Gremlins
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on July 28th, 2004 at 10:55 AM |
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So please tell us Ratty - did it start or not ?
I'm curious what map you are starting it on - surely not the base camira map ? or did the Kalmaker guys give you one to get going with ?
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ratty 63
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| posted on July 28th, 2004 at 11:57 AM |
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Hi all,
This thread seems to have had some sort of failure over the last week - I havn't been able to read anything that was posted here, dispite the fact
that I recieved a notification that a reply had been posted... not sure what happened but it looks OK now.....
OK, I have made several attempts to get this thing started - comes very close too....
I have tried to start it with the Camira map - however it was fairly obvoius to me that it wasn't going to start/run on this map so I have been
slowly adjusting maps one step at a time, then attempting a start... slow way of getting to where I need to be but I managed to get it to start and
run roughly for a short period (around 20 seconds). What this revealed to me is that I had a cylinder that wasn't firing so I started looking around
for the reason. After changing the plugs (they were stuffed!) I checked the ignition leads. Two of them measured OK, one measured slightly high and
the other was open circuit - this explained the misfire! I have just fitted another set of leads, and once the battery is fully charged I will give
it another go.
The great part about this system (the Delco) is that it makes adjustments to the fuel by itself once the O2 sensor is on line, so I just have to
switch the ignition on for a few minuites then turn it over. Every time it starts I get more adjustments made to the map which makes it easier to
start, and allows the engine to run for longer each time. Its slow and painfull, but I have learnt a heap about both fuel mapping and the Kalmaker
software that comes with the Delco! Of course, now that I have all cylinders firing, this should cure the backfiring from the exhaust so the readings
from the O2 sensor may be a little different to what I have been seeing...
Once I have this thing running (and idling for longer that 20 seconds!) I will make the base map available to anyone else that might wish to attach a
Delco to a VW - no guarantees that it will work with their engine, but it would have to be closer than the Camira map!
Hopefully I will be back soon with the good news - I'm busting to get it running before I go to Valla - just to make me feel better when I am asked
how it is going!
Back soon....
R
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Baja Wes
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| posted on July 28th, 2004 at 12:05 PM |
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Glad to see the beast nearly lives! Injection is the way to go
PS - you know it woulda been much quicker and easier to put a subaru motor in it :P
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ratty 63
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| posted on July 28th, 2004 at 12:35 PM |
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| Quote: |
PS - you know it woulda been much quicker and easier to put a subaru motor in it
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You just can't help yourself can you? :thumb
R
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Baja Wes
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| posted on July 28th, 2004 at 01:15 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ratty 63
You just can't help yourself can you? :thumb
R
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No, no I can't
PS - you know I right though :P
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ratty 63
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| posted on July 28th, 2004 at 01:29 PM |
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| Quote: |
PS - you know I right though
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hmmmm....I don't think so....:P
R
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Jeza
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| posted on July 28th, 2004 at 01:39 PM |
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Ratty
Regarding your CHT sensor, the fellow Tom (of Toms notch fame) used a temp sensor in the air stream of the Cylinders. Perhaps this might be an easy
way to plug it in initially to get started.
He has more than one of his cars with the sensor mounted like this with good success.
It is here http://home.att.net/~airdoc/t1fi.html
Under "Engine Compartment Stuff".
Hes written else where about it to, but I can't find that now.
Cheers
Jeremy
......random gibberish for today.......
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ratty 63
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| posted on July 30th, 2004 at 09:34 AM |
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Thanks Jeza,
I am having difficulties getting the engine to start, so far I have found a US plug lead (replaced the entire set), and a leak were the manifold meets
the cylinder head.... I've just about gone deaf from the massive backfires it has done whilst cranking over (too lean due to manifold leak)...Sounded
like a gun shot going off!:duh
Fixed these two problems, but am still having problems - I think it has something to do with ignition timing and the distributor reference angle and
something to do with the fact that the distributor in the Camira turns the other way to the dissys in the VW's (so the reference angle is completely
wrong - it's actually on the other side of TDC to where the ECU thinks it is!!). This is, of course, if my understanding of the reference angle is
correct.... I am in the process of checking this now, but I am going to have to leave it for a while as I should be packing the car for the trip to
Valla - I had hoped to have it running before I left, but it's not to be :cry
For the time being, I have left the head temp sender off the car all together. The ECU comes up with a magical figure for the temp (usually the same
as the Intake air temp) - not sure how it does that....! I understand that it is not necessary to have it connected for testing purposes, of course I
will connect it later, once the engine starts and runs.
OK, better go - supposed to be packing. I'll catch up with some of you at Valla.
R
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tassupervee
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| posted on July 31st, 2004 at 10:18 AM |
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Errr dude, you need that sensor in there precisely to overcome the mixture dramas you may be experiencing.
Just simply wire the sensor underneath the cylinder sos to get some form of reference of engine temp. At very least connect the sensor.
As far as the dissy rotating the wrong way..........bwaaahahahahaha simple dude, crank fire it and do away with the bloody dizzie altogether.
Meanwhile an EMS Stinger system complete with loom is $995.00....
ouch.... that hurts! Fittng one to a 300ZX shortly.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on August 3rd, 2004 at 10:03 AM |
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Ratty,
Progress update please !!!!! (getting pushy I know, but I cant sit on the edge of my seat in anticipation for much longer )
Keen to see if you have got the beast to run yet, and if the temp sensor made a difference or not.
Another question - does your 1835 have a hot cam in it or not ?
Cheers !
Doug
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