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 matberry
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| posted on December 9th, 2010 at 01:17 PM |
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Well how's she run???
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 humpty
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| posted on December 9th, 2010 at 02:56 PM |
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Back from the drive.....
After some fine adjustments on the road the car is running much better..... Still need to find another 5psi though.... Gonna make some calls on
getting a 4-9spi rebuild kit for the Holley....
All this frigging around has coked the plugs I think.... Will pull them when the engine has cooled down....
Getting closer!
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humpty
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| posted on December 9th, 2010 at 07:10 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Well how's she run???
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Still shit.... Picked up yet another FPR.... Supposedly a 4-14psi deal.... Fitted that..... Still can't get that extra 5psi I'm looking for.... And
now I can't get the Malpassi to drop any lower than 3psi!!!!???
WTF?
Dodgy pump?.... Supposed to be good for 14psi, but I reckon its not making it.... Will test it tomorrow.... Also thinking about going back to a dead
head FPR set-up.....
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matberry
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| posted on December 9th, 2010 at 10:17 PM |
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Man .... crazy stuff. 
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humpty
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| posted on December 9th, 2010 at 10:33 PM |
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Its a freakin comedy that's what it is!!!!!
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Boostn
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| posted on December 10th, 2010 at 11:31 AM |
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Hey Simon,
is the new filter before or after the pump?
It should be before the pump. These pumps aren't that good when they get a bit old or when something has gone through them.
does the carbie flood now at 3psi?
I would......
1] mount the filter under the tank with a 1/2'' line feeding it from the tank.
2] flow the pump to see it is ok.
3] piss the reg off and only use the mallpassie.
4] this system has worked so many time without a single problem but I always ran 1/2'' lines.
even just zip tie 1/2'' copper lines next to your current lines.
is the mallpassie ok? do you want me to send you one that has worked for me?
maybe just try a system on the bench and get it working before you fit it all to the car.
get some garden hose, a jerry can, the filter and pump and make it work as I suggested to see if it solves your problem.just an idea...
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humpty
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| posted on December 10th, 2010 at 02:08 PM |
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The filter is after the pump.... There just is no room under the tank to fit it.... I figured, better to get it in the system, than not at all.... If
I have to mount it before the pump (which I know is recommended), then I think the only realistic option is to mount it in the spare wheel well...
The carb is not flooding as far as I can see.... The pump was brand new.... The Malpassi can't get the pressure lower than 3psi.... But I don't
think the pump is making more than 5.... At least not at the Holley FPR..... The O2 gauge is telling me I'm getting plenty of fuel with the power on,
but I think it gets lean pretty quick.... The car just up and dies.... I have seen very high numbers on the O2 when it does!!!!!..... The Malpassi is
new, but it might be dodgy..... If you do have another floating around Nick I'd be very grateful...
I think I'll have to do as you suggest Nick and rip the pump, filter and reg from the car and bench test it.... Then I'll have to figure out where
to run the fuel lines.... 1/2" is huge!!!.... Do you run the lines down the pan, or the in the tunnel, or around the body/pan channel?
I have a couple of hours in the shed today.... Then its back into it tomorrow arvo and Sunday.... Here's hopin'!
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humpty
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| posted on December 10th, 2010 at 06:03 PM |
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All stripped out.... Will bench test tomorrow arvo.... Will see if I can get some 1/2" bundy tube to run the hard lines.... Copper is a pain for
me.... I don't have soldering gear.... Not sure if I'll run the lines around the pan or down the middle underneath.... Anybody have a
recommendation?
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matberry
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| posted on December 10th, 2010 at 07:28 PM |
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Are you going to bench run your old setup to see what's happening?
Guess you probably feel like just chucking it in the bin 
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humpty
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| posted on December 10th, 2010 at 08:38 PM |
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Yeah I'll do that first Matt.... Think its a good idea.... Not sure what I'll do about the Malpassi though.... The pressed in fittings on that are
very small.... Like 8mm id small.... Nick suggests 1/2".... Do later Malpassi's have larger fittings?
Fun and games.....
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Boostn
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| posted on December 11th, 2010 at 11:23 AM |
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just run an adapter from 1/2'' to 8mm.
it's only a return, the point is that you want NO restriction before or after the malpassie so that it does not mess with your pressure or flow.
I think Mike from the US said he uses 1/2 too?
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humpty
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| posted on December 11th, 2010 at 07:02 PM |
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All ripped out..... Bench tested the components.... Pump only produces 6psi max.... So will purchase a new one on Monday from my local Holley
Wholesaler.... Need to get some new fuel line on Monday too, as well as some suitable method of mounting it all.... Found a neat spot up front for the
filter too.... On the back of the beam, clamped to the upper torsion tube.... Safe from debris, easy to service and short lines.... Not happy with my
tank outlet either.... Open to suggestions on alternatives there if you got'em?
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matberry
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| posted on December 11th, 2010 at 07:17 PM |
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Nice to find a problem with the pump.
For the tank outlet, you can carefully cut a 3/8 BSP thread directly into the stock ally nut, minimal thread but using some sealer on assembly has
been no problem on my car. Screw in a tail fitting of whatever flex size your using and your away. Of course there is a nut made for the job from the
states.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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humpty
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| posted on December 11th, 2010 at 07:34 PM |
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Yeah I have one of those mega pricey numbers from CB for my EFI bus conversion.... http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1451 But its a little on the small side.... The current return got to
the top of the tank... But kinda thinking the 'T' style fitting is cool.... I know Marty Staggs also makes those gnatty aluminum AN fittings
too..... Any clue what the thread is on the bottom of the tank?.... The idea of cutting a thread into the OEM female cap freaks me a little.... Just
not very thick material.... I have thought about tapping a thread directly into the tank outlet and turning a 'T' directly into that.... I reckon a
3/8" BSP would go straight in there also....
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reub
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| posted on December 11th, 2010 at 09:55 PM |
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Great to chat Simon... You'll get there with it. Maybe a break is due??
Reub
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humpty
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| posted on December 11th, 2010 at 10:14 PM |
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Always good to have a chat Reub.... Sometimes a little banter and a debrief can work wonders.... And a laugh about stupid shit can really set you in a
good mood.... I had a couple of beers with my bro and my neighbor after talking to you.... I now have renewed enthusiasm for the car... Can't get
1/2" bundy tube, so have decided to go with copper.... Possibly a little heavier, but I can source it tomorrow and get it done.... Might even make
the track on Wednesday night!
A good mate owns this car.....
And we've been itching for a little grudge action.... 
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dragvw2180
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| posted on December 12th, 2010 at 01:28 AM |
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I do run 1/2 " line but I believe 3/8 line is plenty. Look at what it takes to run a small block Chevy fuel wise and compare that to your setup. My
carb came set up for one and it was VERY close jetting wise and they only run 3/8ths line. I run my filter after the pump just like most car
manufacturers do.The fuel pumps we use are weak on the suction side and can only pull so hard so any restriction to flow on the inlet side is not
good, but they can push fuel for miles. Fuel pumps put out trash as they run also, so filtering everything before it enters the regulator is critical.
One small piece of trash in a regulator or carb will cause big problems, not saying what I do is better, just what I have. I think flowing your fuel
system outside the car was a great idea Humpty, keep up the good work. Mike
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humpty
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| posted on December 13th, 2010 at 12:23 PM |
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Been doing the numbers.... This freaking stinky carb shite has swollowed a heap of coin.... And now it seems more needs to be spent on fuel pumps to
make it work.... Seems the Holley Blue's are not really up to the task and don't last very long.... This one I have has lasted only about a week of
actual road use... Feel like I'm chasing my tail....
So the other option is EFI.... I have most of the stuff here to make it happen.... Not the gear I bought for the bus project, but another lot of MS
stuff I bought for the Bug ages ago....
All I need is some efi end castings, injectors and fuel rails to make it happen.... The 3/8" fuel lines that are in the car will work perfectly. I
have a 044 pump, the filters I have are fine for the job, the tank is already to go... Only needs to make an intake manifold for the Ford Falcon
TB....
Am I mad or is this the best possible course of action?
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matberry
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| posted on December 13th, 2010 at 03:27 PM |
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Holy Moley ?@#%&#@@*$#           
In other words, it up to you, are you a quiter?.......ooooh sorry if that was harsh Simon, I know money doesn't grow on trees and you've put heaps
of effort into this already. For what its worth, I've never been a fan of Holley fuel pumps, but I've never had a carb'd turbo engine either.
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humpty
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| posted on December 13th, 2010 at 06:05 PM |
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Had always planned on going efi eventually anyway.... But this pump problem is pissing me off....
This is the pump that is being recommended....
http://www.holley.com/12-150.asp
I can get this one locally for just under 400.... Or obviously there is the ebay option....
But I'm looking at other options....
Got a couple of mates that like and use the Carter pumps.... They are very quiet, seem reliable and loads cheaper than the Holley....
I have no intention of quitting..... Gonna keep looking around....
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dragvw2180
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| posted on December 13th, 2010 at 08:25 PM |
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I hate that you are having so much trouble also, since you have the Holley why not pull the cover off the pump and see if the vanes are sticking? It
may be as simple as pulling the cover off, removing the vanes and reassembling it. They do offer a pump rebuild kit, I believe it comes with the vanes
and gaskets. I do know how you feel, I chased a missfire in my car for a whole season. Matter of fact I will take my spare apart and look at it, there
cannot be much inside it, Mike
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matberry
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| posted on December 13th, 2010 at 09:21 PM |
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Mmmmm
The Carter on my car looks about 20years old, came with a donated body and has been fine, but I'm shy of 140rwhp.
There has to be better options than $400 Holley, btw it does look nice. How much power do you make?
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humpty
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| posted on December 13th, 2010 at 10:27 PM |
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I've had the pump apart Mike.... It all looked fine.... A little crap in there but nothing too bad... I was thinking that possibly I had a power
issue.... In that the pump was not getting full voltage.... But that checks out.... The feed from the battery is aok and the relay is switching as it
should... The actual power wire to the pump is a little light in my book, but the gauge from the relay is the same as on the pump.... Thought possibly
the earth was dodgy, but that looks clean too.... Pump just isn't making pressure.... I'm sure I had heaps of pressure a while back.... That's when
I called my local Holley Wholesaler and he said that the pumps aren't much chop.... Prone to failure if used for prolonged periods.... But that could
be a sales pitch.... As for power it makes..... No clue.... In NA form the engine made an estimated 120hp at the FW.... High 14's say that's pretty
close.... Its got loads more, everywhere now.... Pulls like my brothers STi powered Notchback.....
Looking forward to a little dyno action once this fuel thing is sorted....
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Boostn
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| posted on December 13th, 2010 at 10:33 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Mmmmm
The Carter on my car looks about 20years old, came with a donated body and has been fine, but I'm shy of 140rwhp.
There has to be better options than $400 Holley, btw it does look nice. How much power do you make?
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Yep Buy a Black Carter. Get it sorted, it will be worth it.
BUT efi rocks! HA!
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humpty
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| posted on December 14th, 2010 at 01:26 AM |
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EFI is still on the cards, but I want to get some runs on the board before I take that next step.... Gonna attempt to source a Carter Black here in
Perth tomorrow....
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matberry
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| posted on December 14th, 2010 at 08:11 AM |
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So your not making 25+ lb of boost so IMO it can't be fuel line size.....I like the thinking with voltage, the definitive check is with a voltmeter
at the pump connections with the fuel pump on and under load (should really be in situ with the car running too) so you can measure real voltage
during use. I'd be happy with anything over 12V. Remember.... measure voltage at the pump.
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humpty
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| posted on December 14th, 2010 at 09:51 AM |
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Nah.... Limited to 7.5 currently.... Now that I know what 7.5 feels like, I can only imagine what 25 is like...... Must be insane!!!
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Boostn
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| posted on December 14th, 2010 at 11:09 AM |
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The fuel size becomes a problem later when you up the boost. It is not that the size needs to be that big for the engine, more so that the pumps
aren't that good and need help to get to carbie quickly. The needle valve is also another major restriction. If it was a Holley 750 on the car this
would all not be a problem. This is why we used to run the large filter before the pump[also acted like a surge tank holding 500ml or so] then no
restriction until the needle valve. The only reg was on the return side and was boost sensitive. You might be able to run the smaller line but we
always ran 1/2'' and never had problems. You do not want to ever run a reg in front of the carbie to restrict to pressure because that will kill
your engine later. All I'm saying is to set it up now rather than having lean problems later when you up the boost. This setup we used in 1996 and
went 11.23 @124 without flooding issues.
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matberry
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| posted on December 14th, 2010 at 01:04 PM |
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I wasn't knocking your recommendations at all Nick, just attempting to isolate where the actual problem is. I agree with your princilples above and I
also set up bigger rather than smaller in the fuel supply, it certainly doesn't hurt.
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Boostn
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| posted on December 14th, 2010 at 08:20 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
I wasn't knocking your recommendations at all Nick, just attempting to isolate where the actual problem is. I agree with your princilples above and I
also set up bigger rather than smaller in the fuel supply, it certainly doesn't hurt.
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Hey Mat, it's all good.
The more input the better!
i just want Simon to get this thing going. I remember those days, there was no internet for us
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