| [ Total Views: 2566 | Total Replies: 35 | Thread Id: 100688 ] |
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 55slug
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 01:43 PM |
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When do you need a wing ?
Like the title says, is there any rule of thumb on the wing thing ?
Im hoping to run 9's and 140ish mph in the new wagon. Want to keep it as clean as possible.
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whathaveidone
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 06:31 PM |
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9s@140!!!!!! What the hell you got in it??????? Wings that work(not like mine) are a trial and error thing. Give it a run and see how it feels. Pretty
sure your not gunna run a 9 straight off the trailer so by the time you get there you will know if you need one.
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hellbugged
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 06:36 PM |
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Maybe not first time Ben........
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=99832&page=1#pid933036
..........but maybe
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whathaveidone
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 06:53 PM |
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No maybes about it. If you get that thing going you will see 9s.
but i stand buy what i said before. you will know when you need one!!!!
I did think you were talking about a type3 wagon!!! A little disapointed now!!
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SuperOwen
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 07:10 PM |
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Might be one of those things that it's best to fit and make sure it's effective BEFORE you find out you need it. Kinda like brakes.
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hellbugged
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 07:16 PM |
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Was reading through this the other nite and contains some "as it happens" info on rear wings.......in the later half of the thread from memory
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=55220
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 vw54
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 07:17 PM |
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55slug if yr gunna runs 9s on the 1/4 mile PLEASE tell us what you have done and how much you have spent
do u mean the 1/8 mile ???
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whathaveidone
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 07:28 PM |
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He said 140mph dave!!! Ide like to see that on an 8th in a bug!!!!!!
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bajachris88
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 07:37 PM |
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If you use a rear wing to reduce drag and 'eddy's', at the same token, you could create more drag by adding one! Then comes the adjustments to find
that 'sweet spot'.
Maybe be better off with a rear diffuser of sorts, or incorporate diffusers into a wing?
If someone has alot of time they could model a basic vw shape and run it through ANSYS fluent to trial for fluid flow lol. Find that 'perfect' angle
to reduce turbulence/drag behind so it can cut through the air :P
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55slug
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 08:13 PM |
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It won't happen off the trailer, or for sometime, just really want to avoid putting holes in it if I can avoid it, and get all the necesary
adorrnments on it rather than adding stuff later.
Maybe something like this : http://vwparts.aircooled.net/RLR-Rear-Street-Wing-Kit-Rear-Spoiler-p/rlr-stre...
No holes, !!
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SuperOwen
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 08:25 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bajachris88
If you use a rear wing to reduce drag and 'eddy's', at the same token, you could create more drag by adding one! Then comes the adjustments to find
that 'sweet spot'.
Maybe be better off with a rear diffuser of sorts, or incorporate diffusers into a wing?
If someone has alot of time they could model a basic vw shape and run it through ANSYS fluent to trial for fluid flow lol. Find that 'perfect' angle
to reduce turbulence/drag behind so it can cut through the air :P
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Points for thinking outside the box but have you ever looked at the back of a vw drag car? Not the easiest place to put a diffuser.
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Stanley
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 08:25 PM |
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This wing wouldn't do your car justice. I agree with Ben. See how it goes. Plenty of guys running quick without them.
Only true way is run a 9 without one then bolt one on and see if it's better or worse.
Assuming you don't have access to a wind tunnel.
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dangerous
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 08:58 PM |
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I fitted my crusty old wing in 1991 and felt the improvement even from the 103mph I ran on my first run.
It was(and still is) the wing I used as fast as 147mph and 9.7 about 15 years go.
I know you can get away with no wing to some point,
but disrupting the flow over the roof,
and thus reducing lift, is beneficial even at 100 mph.
You may find that just propping the lid a little may be enough,
but I would like something about 400mm wide as a start.
You know HP is funny when it comes to "running a xx sec pass".
When you have barely enough, it can be hard to acheive a certain goal,
but once you have heaps, and a good track surface, all you need are the balls.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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1916baja
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 09:45 PM |
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You put a wing on when you want your car to look cool aye Ben!
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whathaveidone
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 09:51 PM |
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Mick your overcompensating for something with your wing!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 10:07 PM |
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I'm no aerodynamic expert but if the objective is to disrupt the airflow over the roof and reduce lift as opposed to actually producing downforce,
you could try a small (like 30 - 50mm) fence just above the rear window at say 65 degrees or so. This should split the boundary layer at that point
and hopefully not produce too much drag (like he wing fence on the back of a v8 supercar).
Just a thought.
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modnrod
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 10:31 PM |
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The tiny little lip above the back of the early Golf back window was apparently responsible, on it's own for reducing lift by over 30%, and improving
Cd by 0.05 or 0.06 or something.
I'm with Doug, I'd just put a smooth 2" or 3" flat lip above the back window from drip line to drip line to start, and combine that with a flat
undertray under the nose and see how it goes. You can feel the back when it does start to lift a bit, or the front.
There's a world of difference between mid 1.6 60ft with 12s, and mid 1.2s with 9s. Just the effect on vision out of the hole is huge.
Creep up on a bit for the first few runs before you nail it.
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Sides
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 11:17 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1916baja
You put a wing on when you want your car to look cool aye Ben!
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Is that before or after you paint it black Mick ???
1st gen Audi TT was a classic study in aerodynamics... on original release they tended to lift the tail at high speed, which the official solution was
a 2 inch razor edged lip mounted on the boot lid... which Audi fitted on recall.
Looked poxy, but it disrupted the airflow enough to stop the whole car becoming a wing !!!
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humpty
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 12:14 AM |
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What Doug suggested is actually what many of the Kafer Cup cars used to run... Have a look at some fo the German Look cars run now.... It's pretty
much exactly what has been suggested.
Could make a for a very effective compromise....
And congratulations on the purchase.... I have always loved that car, and wondered where it went when it was sold.
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55slug
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 04:11 AM |
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Cheers for all the suggestions, will keep working on it, and grow some nuts !! Im under no illusion as to how massive the learning curve is on this,
build and drive wise... The guys who I bought the car from had sthe single digit goal, continuation of a theme !!
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vw54
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 06:05 AM |
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Is the car you bought ex US ??
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dangerous
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 06:07 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vw54
Is the car you bought ex US ??
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UK I think?
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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vw54
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 06:08 AM |
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And yr 55slug in the East Island of Aussie ??
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55slug
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 06:58 AM |
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Yeah Im in NZ. Dave is right, car is out of the Uk. Engine is being put together by Marty Staggs in the US. He built it originally for an unlimited
street car, im not intending to push it anywhere near as hard as he was. Building for 5-600 ish HP on E85 ( he was looking for 1000ish HP). Hopefully
will have it together by late this year.
Also down here a prostock car (Herbie) ex Sweden has just arrived. Not yet run.
And shameless plug.... My 55 is for sale, looking for around 17k nz pesos complete with 2165 unassembled engine ( flanged crank, pauter rods, wedgies
idas), folts gearbox with quaiffe. Was originally an aussie car, bought here in 87. Need to fund the money pit !! Dave Butler has just done the
flange conversion in the case- beautiful job !!
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 12:07 PM |
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Nice score!! What sort of cooling system are you going to run to keep it cool on the street? E85 obviously makes a difference temp wise but some sort
of oil coolers with dry sump and cooling fan will be needed.
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55slug
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 05:05 PM |
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Running a cooler, dry sump, Porsche fan. A mate has redesigned the top cover of the pauter case so the fan will bolt directly to it.
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mactaylor
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 07:53 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 55slug
Running a cooler, dry sump, Porsche fan. A mate has redesigned the top cover of the pauter case so the fan will bolt directly to it.
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ooh nice need some pics!
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on February 1st, 2013 at 07:50 AM |
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Yeah some pics of the case mod!! Got a cousin who is putting turbo draw thru carb set up in a split. Autocraft 910 with pauter barrells and case from
memory and was investigating a cooling system of sorts last I spoke with him.
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
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55slug
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| posted on February 1st, 2013 at 09:32 AM |
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Block of alloy and a design at the mo... If there is any interest PM me.
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Kiwivw56
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| posted on February 1st, 2013 at 05:15 PM |
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Hey mate what part of NZ are you from as I'm from around New Plymouth but been in oz for the last 28 years.I have 2 ovals 1 x 56 show,54 drag car
with 2387 .look forward to seeing yours
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