| [ Total Views: 999 | Total Replies: 15 | Thread Id: 100846 ] |
|
|
 lou0060
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 568
Threads: 30
Registered: December 12th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 11th, 2013 at 08:12 PM |
|
|
High Octane race fuels
Interested to know what everyone is doing regarding running higher octane fuels in race cars. The highest octane available at the pump is 98 and I
think there is a company doing 100+ fuels specifically for race applications.
what's the general thinking re high octane fuels?
1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising 
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust 
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief 
1960 beetle - old school low & slow  |
|
|
SuperOwen
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 868
Threads: 67
Registered: January 18th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 11th, 2013 at 08:55 PM |
|
|
There are heaps of options out there, not quite sure exactly what your asking though? Methanol or e85 can work out more economical for a race engine
as some of the race fuels are super $$$$
|
|
|
BiX
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2499
Threads: 154
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 11th, 2013 at 09:04 PM |
|
|
The turbo rally cars in the ARC used to run 105 octane. Used to $5/L and the cars used to burn 1L every 2km at full pace and 5km/L on transport.
On Rally Q, which was 200 competitive, even for a front running state evo, the fuel bill $700 to 1k with spare fuel etc.
Most classes (inlcuding rally) seem to be going back to a pump fuel formula to bring costs down.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
|
|
|
sander288
Custom Title Time!
"Bolt-on Master"
Posts: 1404
Threads: 183
Registered: August 26th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Norman Park, QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: This is my bug. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
|
| posted on February 11th, 2013 at 09:05 PM |
|
|
Av gas?
every time I go to a historic meeting they make sure to write in a source for Avgas for some of the proper race cars
Just go to the local airfield and see if they will sell it to you; there isn't much about these days because alot have gone over to jet fuel
|
|
|
BiX
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2499
Threads: 154
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 11th, 2013 at 09:14 PM |
|
|
I thought except for historic cars already running it, avgas was banned in motorsport?
Lots out there as said above. But depending on what it is, you may need to have a major retune. some of it goes off very qucikly too.
the question is, is the cost worth the extra power you will get?
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
|
|
|
lou0060
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 568
Threads: 30
Registered: December 12th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 11th, 2013 at 09:28 PM |
|
|
I think you are right Bix, avgas is sort of banned but I read somewhere that avgas contains lead and this is why it is not allowed for racecars.
However some historics have special allowances to use it. Also to buy so called racefuels you must have a CAMS license or similar.
To answer superowen my interest is mainly to do with track/sprints rather than methonal or E85, which is what the V8 are running now I think.
1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief
1960 beetle - old school low & slow |
|
|
Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2220
Threads: 59
Registered: May 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Need... more... shed... time...
|
| posted on February 11th, 2013 at 09:33 PM |
|
|
Seems to be a trend of guys with EFI cars converting across to E85... slight jump in power but significant lowering of engine temps.
Shell Racing 100 was popular until the stopped making it about 12-18 months back, so now most seem to be running BP or Caltex 98, some with BP100.
Avgas and Elf seem to be just down to the open wheeler crowd now...
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
|
|
Doug Sweetman
Veteran Volks Folk
Nil Bastardo Carborundum
Posts: 2128
Threads: 58
Registered: September 23rd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth, W.A
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: sweeeeet 
|
| posted on February 11th, 2013 at 10:53 PM |
|
|
Avgas I would steer clear of.... I work at an oil refinery and the ppe and controls we need to use when handling the tetra ethyl lead additive are
just incredible. It's nasty stuff (especially to young kids) and has been phased out for a good reason.
The avgas you do get will likely be 100LL (low lead - dyed blue), unless you buy in WA, which is one of only a couple of places that high lead avgas
(100/130, and dyed green) is sold. High lead avgas has twice the amount of lead as low.
Avgas is rated by MON (motor octane number) not RON (research octane number) so for comparison the various 98RON petrols around are about 88 - 89 MON.
|
|
|
lou0060
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 568
Threads: 30
Registered: December 12th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 12th, 2013 at 08:37 PM |
|
|
thanks Doug, yes i did know about the different colours for the different levels of lead. I believe the avgas allowed for historics is the blue
coloured fuel. my interest in all this is two-fold; 1st my subi engine in my racecar is a jap import and as I use the Subi ecu it is tuned for 100Ron
fuel which is what I believe is used in Japan. 2nd I have a contact in Brisbane that blends fuel and can blend 100 or higher fuels and supplies some
of the historic guys.
1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief
1960 beetle - old school low & slow |
|
|
Gracey
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 511
Threads: 17
Registered: February 6th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Beaudesert, Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Itchy
|
| posted on February 12th, 2013 at 09:26 PM |
|
|
United Fuel sells 100 octane at the pump, I've run this a few times in my subi with Jap import motor and ecu and it works perfectly. And you're
right they use 100 ron in Japland.
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on February 12th, 2013 at 09:30 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by lou0060
Interested to know what everyone is doing regarding running higher octane fuels in race cars. The highest octane available at the pump is 98 and I
think there is a company doing 100+ fuels specifically for race applications.
what's the general thinking re high octane fuels?
|
You can buy 100RON at some Liberty service stations.
I put some in My Sons Toyota Van and it smells quite different to any other fuels I have smelt..
also a different color.. lol
My Son bought a drum of ELF for His racing Motor Bikes which cost $$$$$ [ a few years ago] but I believe he was told how to make His own fuel..
whether he does I'm not sure...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
modnrod
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 978
Threads: 50
Registered: March 17th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Midwest, Westoz.
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Old School Volksies!
|
| posted on February 13th, 2013 at 09:03 PM |
|
|
Here in WA Caltex 95 dips at 98.5 in the scutineering shed (which caused a bit of grief at first....... ), and Caltex 98 dips at 99 or 99.5 every
time.
|
|
|
Doug Sweetman
Veteran Volks Folk
Nil Bastardo Carborundum
Posts: 2128
Threads: 58
Registered: September 23rd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth, W.A
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: sweeeeet
|
| posted on February 13th, 2013 at 09:17 PM |
|
|
Which explains why Caltex are going broke..... Octane giveaway like that is bad business because the higher octane components (such as alkylate and
reformate, which can be up to 105 Ron) are very energy intensive and expensive to produce.... These high octane blend stocks are the blended with low
octane components (straight run naphtha, poly gas, cat cracked spirit etc ) to carefully meet whatever spec it is.
|
|
|
lou0060
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 568
Threads: 30
Registered: December 12th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 14th, 2013 at 08:51 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Gracey
United Fuel sells 100 octane at the pump, I've run this a few times in my subi with Jap import motor and ecu and it works perfectly. And you're
right they use 100 ron in Japland.
|
As a matter of interest does anyone know where United get their fuel from?
1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief
1960 beetle - old school low & slow |
|
|
lou0060
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 568
Threads: 30
Registered: December 12th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 14th, 2013 at 08:52 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Doug Sweetman
Which explains why Caltex are going broke..... Octane giveaway like that is bad business because the higher octane components (such as alkylate and
reformate, which can be up to 105 Ron) are very energy intensive and expensive to produce.... These high octane blend stocks are the blended with low
octane components (straight run naphtha, poly gas, cat cracked spirit etc ) to carefully meet whatever spec it is.
|
always nice when someone who knows what they are talking about gets involved, thanks for your input Doug.
1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief
1960 beetle - old school low & slow |
|
|
Doug Sweetman
Veteran Volks Folk
Nil Bastardo Carborundum
Posts: 2128
Threads: 58
Registered: September 23rd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth, W.A
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: sweeeeet
|
| posted on February 14th, 2013 at 11:01 PM |
|
|
Not a worry mate.
United fuel could be from anywhere..... They have no refining assets so either purchase from oz refiners (bp, shell, caltex, Mobil) or import from
o/s, ie Singapore, Japan, Vietnam, India.
Should all be compliant with your local spec though (different specs per state / region /time of year due to average temps and elevation).
|
|
|
